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the Conference, Dr. Clarke accidentally met Mr. Grindrod contiguous to the platforin, and with all that cordiality, friendship, and good humour for which he was distinguished, he placed his hands on the shoulders of Mr. G. and said, “Brother Grindrod, you shall not be censured, YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WORTHY OF IT." The above I have from authority the most unquestionable, and which I am willing to produce when you, Mr. Editor, think fit to call for it. The expression which is reported to have been uttered by the Doctor at the house of his friend in Birmingham, is nothing less than a vile imputation on his sincerity and integrity, and which his friend, Mr. Hickling, has triumphantly refuted, to the entire satisfaction of every reasonable and intelligent man. The parallel which some have attempted to draw between the two Doctors, Clarke and Warren, is as fulsome as it is unjust. The difference between them is as great as that between the farthing candle, shedding a feeble glimmer in the recesses of a cellar, and the sun-which illuninates the evil and the good!



Sir-As Dr. Warren is engaged in a tour through the “length and breadth of the land,” for the purpose of “raising the wind,” to pay the expenses of his late unsuc'cessful suits in Chancery, and as I perceive his tale is got quite trite and threadbare, I have supplied him with another; to which I invite his attention, and that of your readers.

“My dear good people- I beseech your courteous, candid, and pious attention, whilst I relate the cause or causes of my standing before you in the character of a mendicant. A sketch of my early life has appeared in Blackwood's Magazine, from the romantic pen of my son, who really is a clever fellow, and the pride and oracle of his father. But as you are all Methodists-(or something else-aside)-I shall speak only of my Methodistical career. This I commenced with some piety, a little modesty, a sprinkling of common sense, and not a little singularity. I used to say at that time,

I must be singular, or I should be lost!' Some persons say, that I retain nothing but my singularity; but they are poor mistaken men, and I pity them. I passed my junior years without observation-was scarcely known beyond the limits of my own circuitand this was much to my advantage. I always professed to be a liberal; when, therefore, I became superintendent, I determined not to be ruled, but to be liberal in my own way, as all true liberals have been before me: consequently, when two large societies in the Sunderland circuit complained that I did not give them enough preaching, and presumptuously requested more, I took it in dudgeon, and piously and in the fear of God, determined they should have none at all. I put them at once off the plan; but my laudable design was frustrated by a neighbouring tyrannical superintendent, who, though with considerable inconvenience to himself, took them into his circuit. My colleagues used to say, and still affirm, as I am told, that with all my show of liberality, I was somewhat of a tyrant; but this is a foul slander, when directed against Samuel Warren, who would rather act upon the opinions of other people, than abide by his own.' Nor could my attempt to sell a chapel in Scotland, without the consent of Conference, in which I was successfully opposed by one of my junior colleagues, who had little veneration for my age and wisdom, be fairly construed, after 'mature and deep thought,' into a contradiction of the preceding assertion ; though by it I, of course, felt disappointed. During this time I had acquired a smattering of classical knowledge, and some dictionary learning,'--though, up to this day, I cannot at all times write Eng. lish grammatically, as the first page of my “Address' proves; but I account for this on the ground of my attention to other, and what are still to me, comparatively, “unknown tongues.' I am aware that some small friends account for it in another way. After a time, and with much labour-and by adding to my costume what has been irreverently called, a red monkey's tail,' I managed to procure the degree of Master of Arts. Í then felt-what I consider, with all deference,' to be-a laudable desire to become Doctor Warren. I got another station in Scotland, and spent a great deal of time, not so much as a Methodist preacher as an University graduate. I applied very assiduously to certain Doctors for testimonials--as to my learning, &c. &c.—and in some instances was ungraciously refused; particularly by one, who was a brother preacher. Thus was I again disappointed. However, after a great fuss, I procured LL.D. I then, of course, thought that the highest offices in the connexion were at my command, as they hed been in the case of Dr. Adam Clarke--for a Doctor is a Doctor; but the stupidity of my brethren prevented their thinking as I, with my enlarged and superior mind, did; and, therefore, when I said, make me president-they said, call again to-morrow. At the last Manchester Conference, I desired the office of senior Missionary secretary; but the committee refused my application, and elected my antipathy. At another Copa ference, despite all my arguments, a sentence of a special district meeting at which I was a principal man, was reversed and declared "cruel.' Thus, disappointment followed disappointment. To say nothing of the rejection of my · Digest of Methodistical Law,' upon which I had spent so much pains, as the standard of our discipline; in consequence of which, the two volumes which were published at 12s may be obtained for 4s-a discount of 66 per cent. I came, therefore, to the 1st Manchester circuit, as my opponents would say, 'soured,' I bowed to one, with a grace that belongs only to myself-I nursed the radicalism of the radicals-was the humble servant of all and became a favourite. Thus I prepared for my late grand attack upon the Conference. I approved of the Institution, and wished it to be called a College ! till I found that there was no chance of my being made either an officer in it, or missionary secretary. It was then that I determined to get rid of the mask, which I had so long worn with great inconvenience, and which, to say the truth, was getting rather thin and nearly worn out. I tried to make a speech in the Conference, condemnatory of the whole affair, but, as I began to abuse individuals, they refused to hear me. All this; it is necessary to say, was done conscientiously and in the fear of God. I then, though dissuaded from it, published the speech, which certainly sold well, and made a great stir. The preachers remonstrated with me, and wished me to suppress it. This I most obstinately refused; and when brought to trial at a special district meeting—which I acknowledged over and over again. was the only course left my brethren-I resolutely refused to take my trial, because Mr. Bromley, my friend, was not allowed to remain, after he had grossly insulted the meeting. I was then, as you know, suspended; upon which I did all in my power to “ agitate” the Methodist body, by bidding defiance to all rule and usage. Moreover, I determined heroically, but not vindictively or wickedly, I assure you, far be it from me! to appeal to the Vice-chancellor, who decided the cause against me, and gave me what I consider to be a very impertinent lecture. But I was not to be thus stopped, and though dissuaded from the attempt by my legal friends, I referred the case to Lord Lyndhurst, who, my son assured me, would reverse the decision, in consequence of an article which he (my son), has written in Blackwood; laudatory of his Lordship. But his Lordship too decided against me, very much to my mortification, I assure you. Yet no wonder, his Lordship is a Tory, and the Conference are Tories. I regret the Whigs were not in office at the time. But a truce to politics. Thus I am saddled with a tremendous debt which must be paid shortly somehow. I built a Tabernacle in Manchester to oppose Oldham-street, and this has increased my responsibilities. My friends of the Grand Central Association are not so ready and liberal with their subscriptions as I expected. One, a great man, promised me £100; but has deducted £15 for travelling expenses to London and back. Some will not give me any thing because I have not won,' which you know is not my fault but my misfortune. A millstone is round my neck;' and matters would be worse, did I not keep possession of the house belonging to the trustees of Oldham-street chapel-which some say is very mean and paltry, and which I would not do if I could do better; but of that I have no prospect at present. I beseech you, therefore, Christian friends, as you value your liberties and me their defender; as you admire obstinacy, I beg pardon, I should have said firmness of purpose; as you respect consistency; as you would keep me out of jail-to which I am willing after all to go if you think proper; as you venerate the name of my great forerunner, Alexander Kilham, of blessed memory; as you would ruin the Wesleyan Missions, schools, and trustees; as you would starve the old and afflicted preachers, widows, and orphans; as you would“ reduce Methodism to a state of ruin,” to

Put your money in the plate,

Or I, your preacher, cannot eat.' I would just observe, in conclusion, that the balance has been against me in several of my journies, and, therefore, I earnestly hope for a good collection this evening.” Manchester.



We perfectly coincide in opinion with our correspondent, in reference to the great northern tale

ich appeared in the last Lantern. To the triple calling of the Association we must now add the office of publishing reputed facts, the knowledge of which it was impossible for them to obtain but by the most deeply dishonourable means. In reply to a gentleman in Sunderland, who remarked that the local meetings had not sufficient power, a minister of this town is said to have advised the people to draw their purse-strings tighter. Mr. Hickling, of Birmingham, has very properly cleared himself of the unutter:

abie baseness of betraying his friend, Dr. Clarke, by reporting private conversations said to have taken place in his own house, and we doubt not Mr. Vint is equally honourable. Both gentlemen, it seems, are beset by snakes in the grass, who turn out to be in correspondence with an Association of creatures like themselves. It is uncertain whether this be an original story, or a new edition of an old one, improved and adapted to present circumstances, as the Leeds protestants say the remark was made in their town and to another person. If the thing ever occurred, it was on this principle, that some weak people have been so often told by such men as Gordon, that the preachers are just like" highwaymen and pickpockets—that when they talk of a want of “power," they are really afraid of being robbed ; and this minister thinks that the best way to tranquillize their minds, is to convince them that their money is certainly under their own control. But the “system" said to be recommended in Sunderland is not that which is “tried" at present. A few years ago, when common decency was respected, those who closed their “purse" thought themselves bound in honour also to shut their mouths; and, as some of them had long done much more harm by their speeches than good by their contributions, the loss of both was a clear gain to the connexion. As to the present “ system,” which consists in an endless attempt to sub vert Methodism, after having clearly forfeited all moral right to meddle with it at all, by ceasing to support it, certain we are that it could not possibly be recommended by any honest man.

A correspondent reminds us that the Association are very much “disgusted" with our paper about the “convicts" in another hemisphere, and say that it is “very low." We hope they will candidly allow that, as disputants, we are obliged to meet our opponents on their own ground; and that this theatre, whether high or “low," was first selected by their oracle, Gordon, when he said the preachers were just like highwaymen," who wished to “rob and murder" him. The conception was once thought to be so sublime that, at Manchester, it was "listened to with intense interest," and "cheered for a considerable time." It is plain, from the Lantern, that people may sometimes mistake their own abilities, and it seems we have done so; for, we thought, the idea was lofty rather than “low," By including in the Association all expelled persons, on both sides of the world, a circumference was provided worthy of the “Grand Central," and seemed to make the whole affair "grand" indeed. But we have been mistaken; and as people sometimes go from one extreme to the other, we now believe it to be utterly impossible for any man to raise such a "low" thing as the delegate meeting. Six persons met at Stockport, some of them not even members of the Methodist society, and, after some deliberation and carefully looking at the matter on all sides, four of them were finally dubbed “delegates" by the other two, and sent to legislate for the Wesleyan connexion. We admit that this is “low," even beneath contempt; and maintain, that even the genius of Milton could not make it otherwise.

Our correspondent is not quite correct in saying that the Association separate many things, and unite none. Though Gordon has separated the Dudley “ leaders' meeting" from the Conference, it is to remain in strict connexion with his own dramshop, and to be employed in restoring its respectability, which was thought to be damaged by the “light words" of Mr. Wesley. The avocation of the Christian Advocate is not quite simple, but at least twofold. However zealously he may endeavour to separate the church from the state, he labours with equal assiduity, from week to week, to unite Methodism with “ Morison's pills." This principle of union “extends through all the extent" of his labours for the sins of the Methodist preachers, the virtues and exploits of Dr. Warren, and every thing else are all tacked to the pills." We should not wonder but the Conference, bad as it is said to be, might easily convert that bitter enemy into a friend, if it would only submit to make “ a proper use of its authority," and consummate this union by recommending to all the Methodists and their friends throughout the world, to begin forthwith to take a certain quantity of the “pills," and go on increasing the number every day, so long as there was life or property remaining. But this must be done quickly, if it is done at all, for the 6. pills," the “balm of gilead," and every thing else, is likely to be soon eclipsed by the healing virtues of the “preachers' fund," recently discovered. An Irish minister, who has long been ailing, infirm, and not merely useless, but a burden to the church, having received a sum of money from this famous “ fund," has suddenly become hale and strong, and is now labouring in Liverpool, Manchester, and elsewhere, with distinguished efficiency and acceptance!

We present our cordial thanks to our Preston correspondent, for his illumination of the delegates from that town to the late futile meeting at Manchester, yclept provisional! Pomfret, it appears, was originally a roomite !--a party who separated from Methodism a few years ago, and so termed from their meetings being held in a room! He afterwards became a Wesleyan, and for a short time was a local preacher and leader; but not being permitted to preach when and where he pleased, among ranters and such like, during his connection with us, he joined the Protestant Methodists-alias “the orchard people." He is famed for nothing in Preston, but his opposition to the Wesleyan Methodists.-Johnstone, the second of the motley group from Preston, was a violent political radical, and a warm partizan of the notorious Henry Hunt-quondam M.P. and blacking maker. Like his brother delegate, Pomfret, he is one of the orchard, or Protestant Methodists, but never was connected with the Wesleyans.

Our correspondent, “ A. B.," is informed that the four delegates from Stockport were delegated by a meeting composed of six people, of which they constituted two-thirds, only two of this number were members of the Methodist society; one of whom has been subsequently suspended from his office as a local preacher, and the other has written a letter to the Grand Central Secretary to withdraw his name.

The inquiries respecting James Lamb are numerous; our readers shall not be long kept in suspense respecting him. We shall then largely avail ourselves of our Irish correspondence.

We regret that an article entitled “Leaders' Meetings," for the constitutional principles laid down therein, and for the answers it contains to several important queries which have been proposed by our readers, is, solely from its length, unavoidably postponed until our next. It found its way to the printing office, but could not receive insertion.

Communications have also been received from “Epsilon,"_“Omega,"_“Omicron,"_“R. D." *G.F.'—“A Friend to Methodism,"_"An Enemy to Duplicity,"—“Sigma,"--and “Mentor."

but at least twofopards of Mr. Wesleoyed in restoring its rierence, it is

Printed and Published by R. DICKINSON, 67, Pool-lane, Liverpool, to whom all communications (post

paid) to the editor, are to be addressed; Sold also by J. MASON, 14, City-road, J. HUTTON, 16, City road, and WHITTAKER and Co., Ave Maria-lane, London; Love and BARTON, Manchester; SPINK and CULLINGWORTH, Leeds ; DEARDEN, Nottingham; ATKINSON, Bradford; SAXTON and CHALO. NER, Sheffield ; the CHRONICLE OFFICE, Chester; PEART, Birmingham; OGLE, Bolton; WILSON, Whitehaven; JEFERSON, Carlisle; DICKINSON, Workington; and may be obtained, by means of the Methodist Preachers, or respectable Booksellers, in any part of Great Britain and Ireland.







No. 13.

LIVERPOOL, JUNE 24, 1835. Price 1 d.



We took occasion, in our last number but one, to combat the leading principle of the Manchester Delegates, as applicable to the divine appointment and powers of the ministry. We now take up the scriptural discipline of the church, with the intention of showing that it is directly opposed by the resolution, that the people “shall possess the right of interference in all its affairs.” Had that resolution affirmed the right of every person to exercise his judgment in placing himself under the discipline of the church ;-taking, at the same time, the consequences; for which consequences he is only answerable to God;—then, we could have no ground of quarrel with the proposition. But when it is assumed that, after such person has voluntarily united himself to the Christian church, and placed himself under its regime, he possesses the right to interfere in all its affairs,” including the discipline which relates to himself—this involves a principle against which we demur.

Discipline, in general, refers to two things: the order and communion of the church ; and the piety and morality of its professing members. - In the primitive and apostolical church we read of several kinds of offices-sacraments and ordinances—the preaching and administration of the word of life—the communion and fellowship of the saints ; together with the numerous duties and obligations the different parties owed to each other. The discipline of the church is, consequently, no other than the regular, united, and harmonious operation of the whole and entire system, according to the arrangement of its founder and Head. If we find from the word of God, that the offices, the ordinances, the preaching, the communion, and the duties of the fellowship are enjoined by Christ, then, discipline consists in every person occupying his right position and performing his own duty. This is, we conceive, the substance of Christian discipline itself; the power to watch over and superintend its execution is another thing, and must be separately considered. There is a difference betwixt legislation and magistracy. The supreme power of a state only possesses the right of legislation; but a magistracy is essential to carry the law into force. In like manner, Jesus Christ, the founder of Christianity, alone, can have the power to give the principles of his own economy, and announce his own laws; and this power, as exercised by others, can only be delegated and ministerial. We propose to consider the following proposition in opposition to the preliminary resolution of the Delegate Meeting, which, if proved from the Word of God, must, as far as truth and argument are concerned, settle the matter against them. · THE DISCIPLINE OF THE CHURCH 18 COMMITTED INTO THE HANDS OF ITS PASTORS, AS THE GUARDIANS OF ITS PURITY, AND THE SUPERINTENDENTS OF ITS ADMINISTRATION.

Our first proof of this proposition shall be taken from the fact, that the deposit was, in every instance on record in the New Testament, made to the pastors of the church. This may, indeed, be fairly inferred from the commission they received to propagate the gospel. The discipline of the kingdom of Christ must be inherent in itself; and as the ministers of religion were the persons commissioned to establish that kingdom in the world, it follows, that the right or duty to administer its discipline would be included in their commission. The first ministers of the gospel were not merely the heralds of its truth, but the founders of the churches ; and, consequently, their office not only related to the enunciation of the doctrines of Christianity, but also to the enforcement of all those rules of order and morality which are essential to the very existence of a Christian church. When this commission was given to the Apostles and others, the churches themselves were not founded, so that it could not be an authority to be exercised conjointly between the ministers and the people, much less given or modified by the latter, because they had no being ; and we find no prospective limitations in the words by which the Apostles were authorised to preach the gospel to every creature,

But we have direct, as well as inferential proof of the truth of our proposition; and to that proof we more especially appeal. The evidence of the New Testament is so full, that it will allow us to make every deduction which may be required in favour of the superior authority and extraordinary office of the Apostles. That some of the rights and powers of these directly inspired and divinely commissioned servants of the Lord Jesus, were of a more elevated nature than those of the ordinary ministry, and only intended to continue for a limited period, may be readily granted. Yet even in this a great principle is involved, which must not be lost sight of, viz.—the class of persons with whom the trust was deposited. The trust itself may have been of an extraordinary nature, and in all subsequent cases not repeated, and yet the tenure on which it was held, be applicable to succeeding instances of ministerial right and obligation. We instance the committal of the keys of the kingdom to St. Peter-the power to bind and loose given to the Apostles and their right to remit sins. As these prerogatives are supposed by many writers to be extraordinary and limited to the Apostles, we would remark that, although they might belong to the Apostles in the highest degree, they may, in an inferior degree, belong to all ministérs, and in this they may be the represen. tatives of all succeeding pastors of the church. It may be true, that the keys of Peter were, as many argue, given to unlock the kingdom of God to both Jews and Gentiles, and, in this and many other respects, were of an extraordinary character; and yet, it may be equally true; that every minister, called of God to his work, may receive a key to unlock the truth, open the door of salvation to lost sinners, and, in the sense of admitting and excluding members, to “bind and loose.” The Apostles might possess a power to “bind and loose,” by the exercise of a commission which they could sanction and enforce by miracles, as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira; but it does not follow from this, that the succeeding race of ministers did not hold the power declaratively, as Knapp says, “earnestly to exhibit before the impenitent and unconverted the consequences of their sins, the divine punishments; to admonish them, to counsel and exhort thein to repentance; and, on the contrary, to comfort and console the penitent; and to convince them with reasons drawn from the Christian system, of the mercy of God, and the forgiveness of their sins. This right,” this learned German remarks,“ is derived from the very nature of their office, and cannot be denied.”

But our object in referring to these passages is not to define the powers conferred, but to shew that in this particular instance the exercise of discipline was entrusted with the pastors of the church. In this case, we find no limitations dependent on the suffrages, votes, and veto-or the “interferenceof the people, in any shape or form. Our Lord did not say to Peter that he should possess "the keys of the kingdom of heaven," in conjunction with the whole body of believers or of inferior officers; and that he should only apply them to the different locks and wards of its massive gates with their permission; or, by their assistance, throw them open to admit the Gentile nations. The keys are not put into commission but are given into the hands

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