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claring, that though in accomplishing his wishes as to lay representation, he should “abolish Methodism, or reduce it to a state of ruin,” he was determined to persevere in the attempt. But let him speak for himself. Thus he is reported by his friend John Stephens, in the Advocate, to have delivered himself:

The people stood in need of something which they had not at present; and he would now speak to them the deep thoughts of his mind as to what he considered to be most particularly necessary. He could find nothing short of a full, fair, honest representation of the people. He admitted that the subject was encumbered with many difficulties; and it was not easy to say how he could accomplish what he wished, wiTHOUT ABOLISHING METHODISM, OR REDUCING IT TO A STATE OF RUIN. He saw also that there were some legal difficulties in the way." &c.

“ The meeting would go for nothing, for less than nothing, if that principle (lay representation) were lost sight of for a moment. He had taken up that ground, and no man should remove him from it. That was the ground he had chosen, and there he would abide,&c.

“ Dr. Warren moved that the representation of the people be in the Conference, two representatives to be chosen annually from each district meeting.'"

“He should not rest till he had succeeded in introducing lay, delegates into the Conference.”

The report, from which the above extracts are made, occupies twenty-one columns and a half of the Advocate, containing 3429 lines ; of which, not sixty lines refer to the Theological Institution. All comment is superfluous. With the Association, the Institution is nothing, and representation every thing. While Dr. WARREN ON HIS PART HAS PLEDGED HIMSELF TO ATTEMPT THE ACCOMPLISHMENT OF HIS WISHES THOUGH, IN DOING SO, HE SHOULD ABOLISH AND RUIN METHODISM, Manchester, May 4, 1835.

0. R.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE ILLUMINATOR. Sir I was not, I confess, much surprised after what we have seen of the “ crooked policy and double dealing" of the agitators, to behold in last week's Lantern, a paper professing to give an account of the “ Annual Meeting of the Committee, Subscribers, and Friends of Wesleyan Sunday Schools in the Manchester Third Circuit;" but which is entirely an exparte statement. In fact, the paper itself is so utterly destitute both of good feeling and truth, that I should have passed by it without notice, and consigned it to the oblivion it so richly deserves had it not been for the information of those who were not present at the meeting. Mr.Greenhalgh, the author of the "account,” after stating the circumstances which followed upon Allen's interruption, with a minuteness bordering on exaggeration, either forgets or entirely suppresses the fact that Mr. Anderson did, at Mr. Allen's request, again read over the list of conductors. The manner in which Mr. Hughes obtruded himself before the notice of the meeting, even after he was repeatedly warned by Mr. Anderson, that the meeting had no power of interfering, shows the spirit which actuates his party. With respect to only 18 out of 200 voting for the original motion, this we can say : in many parts of the room, the notice which was given immediately preceding it, was entirely inaudible, owing to the clamour of the opposing party. Lastly, Mr. Greenhalgh states, that Mr. Mayor declared, that three out of six of the sub-committee, which was appointed by the general committee, were favourable to Mr. Hughes's continuance in office; but, at the same time, he neglects to state that Mr. Mayor asserted that those three “gave in ” unto the rest, “for the sake of expediency” (to use his own words); and as for Mr. Anderson's not putting the matter to the vote, Mr. A. never refused to do so; but I would inquire, what necessity existed for the doing so, after each had declared his sentiments on the subject.

In conclusion, let us advise Mr. Greenhalgh, next time he turns reporter, to give a more faithful and accurate report than that which has been the subject of our consideration at present. I must crave the indulgence of your readers for what to many must appear uninteresting and, perhaps, unnecessary; but when the subject itself is considered as tending to show in a stronger light, the mean principles of our antagonists, I hope it will not be considered superfluous. I remain, yours &c.


TO THE EDITOR OF THE ILLUMINATOR. Sir-Persons who have attended the public meetings of the Association must have been particularly struck with the pompous pretensions which are put forth to extraordinary attainments in religion. If the old divines, or if their Lord and Master, are to be regarded, these stout and offensive boasts of pre-eminent sanctity are evidences of hypocrisy. Some of the platform speech-makers have said, that "in Liverpool the members of the Association are, in point of respectability equal to the Conference men; and they are, in regard to piety, immeasureably their superiors ;” and lest this modest statement should prove too large to be swallowed and digested by an incredulous audience, it is confirmed by the authority of a celebrated revivalist, who is reported to have said to the everlasting disgrace of the two superintendents of the Liverpool circuits, "you have expelled all the praying people.” Surely, Sir, I ought to tremble for the Methodist societies in your populous and respectable town! They are held up to the world as prayerless souls !-and, if prayerless, they must be “ without Christ, " and in “the broad way which leadeth to destruction !!” * 0, what Christian charity is manifested toward these societies by a number of itinerant gabblers !

Sir-While it is deeply humbling to see men who have yet to “put away all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil-speaking, with all malice,” saying, “the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, are we;" it is somewhat consoling to know that, in this particular, no “strange thing” hath happened unto the church. “High towers must look for lightnings. We offer not to undermine, but those walls which we cannot scale.” The most distinguished personages among the Israelites are witnesses to the truth of these declarations. Korah, Dathan, and Abiram seduced “two hundred and fifty princes, men of renown," and drew, through their instrumentality, all the congregation of Israel from their allegiance to God and his servants. They rose up and charged Moses and Aaron with the assumption of an arbitrary and tyrannical power, saying, “ ye take too much upon you ;” but Moses retorted the charge upon the leaders of the faction, and the sequel of the contest demonstrated the equity of the retort in the most awful and convincing manner. This case, Sir, is instructive as it shows what a curse a few restless, factious spirits may be to a people, and also with what rapidity an unprincipled disaffection and opposition to the ministers of Christ may be diffused among a vast multitude of persons. There is, Sir, one striking feature in the case which ought not to be overlooked-this ancient association of reformers, like the modern one, made a flaming profession of eminent piety. I hope, Sir, you will perinit the sacred historian to be heard : “ They gathered themselves together against Moses, and against Aaron, and said unto them, ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them : wherefore, then, lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the Lord ?".Num. xvi, 3. There is a passage on this point in Bishop Hall's contemplation of Korah’s conspiracy, so appropriate to present times that I trust to be excused for transcribing it. It reads as follows:-“Nothing can be more pleasing to the vulgar sort, than to hear their governors taxed, and themselves flattered. *All the congregation is holy, every one of them : wherefore lift ye up yourselves ?' Every word is a falsehood. For Moses dejected himself; 'who am I?'' God lifted him up over Israel; and so was Israel holy, as Moses was ambitious. What holiness was there in so much infidelity, fear, idolatry, mutiny, and disobedience? What could make them unclean, if this were holiness? They had scarce wiped their mouths, or washed their hands, since their last obstinacy; and yet these pick-thanks say, “All Israel is holy.'"

Trusting, Mr. Editor, that these remarks will not be useless I am, dear Sir, yours affectionately,



The following documents comprise an extract from a speech delivered by Dr. Warren, at Bury, on the 10th ult., and taken down at the time by a gentleman not a member of the Wesleyan society, nor in any way involved in the existing disputes. Dr. Warren having denied the correctness of the report, it may be proper to add that its fidelity is confirmed by the evidence of other individuals. Two of the letters now published have already appeared in print; the third was suppressed.

“When at London, being desirous to investigate the volume containing the account of the journals &c., of the preachers, and permission being granted, I and my lawyer went-Mr. Percy Bunting and his lawyer being present during the whole period. And what, my good people, do you think was my astonishment on examining this large folio volume and not being able to find one single line of the Plan of Pacification, excepting the protest of Thomas Taylor? I was amazed and perfectly astonished. Mr. Bunting himself was the same. I could scarcely believe my own senses such was my astonishmentfor I am convinced that a darker deed was never done in the darkest ages of Popery. These, your Con. ference men, base in principle as in act, must have taken three, four, or more leaves from out this large

volume, and thus the Plan of Pacification is for ever destroyed. It is by acts like these, they, the Conference men, justify their measures, and win their trials, and justify their tyrannical assumptions of power. But I will leave the dark deed--this unrighteous act--to the day of resurrection."

MR. T. P. BUNTING TO DR. WARREN. been taken out, I have uniformly affirmed my most

King-street, Manchester, April 18, 1835. deliberate opinion, that no such act has ever been Sir I have been greatly astonished to be inform- done, and that the documents in question were need that, at a meeting held in Bury on the 10th in- ver entered! stant, you asserted that, on examination of the Yet you say that your informant is “ a very reJournals of the Wesleyan Methodist Conference, spectable and unprejudiced individual who prosome weeks ago, in my presence, you found that fesses to have taken down the words at the time, the “ Conference men, base in principle as in act, and shown you the manuscript;"that, “ were it must have taken three, four, or more leaves from not confirmed by other equally credible evidences, out that large volume."

you would certainly hesitate as to the propriety of If the information had not been conveyed to me troubling me upon the subject." upon the testimony of a very respectable and un- Now, Sir, I have only to express my fears, that prejudiced individual, who professes to have taken some villain, long practised in the art of falsehood down the words at the time, and who has shown and perjury, has practised upon your unsuspecting me his manuscript-and were it not confirmed by and inexperienced youth; or that you have been other equally creditable evidence-I should cer. hoaxed by some one who wishes to render you containly hesitate as to the propriety of troubling you temptible in the eyes of your friends. I am, Sir, upon the subject. But I am sure you will agree yours, &c.

SAMUEL WARREN. with me, that, when it is stated upon authority

when it is stated upon Authority Mr. T. P. Bunting. such as I have mentioned, that a charge directly and

We, whose names are subscribed, were present seriously affecting private character has been pre

during the whole of the public meeting at Bury, ferred by you, it is only just to give you the op

and solemnly declare that no such words were utportunity, either of distinctly denying that you

tered by Dr. Warren as those which have been false made the assertion referred to, or of again openly

ly attributed to him by some person or persons, and repeating it. If your expressions have been misre

reported to Mr. T. P. Bunting. presented, you cannot think that the continued circulation of so foul a falsehood can contribute to

THOS. TAYLOR. the success of any good cause; and I put it to you

JOHN GREENHALGH. whether, as a gentleman and an honest man, you

JAMES LIVESEY. can refuse to afford to the parties implicated in the

SAMUEL LORD. accusation, the amplest and speediest means of contradicting it, which lie in your power.

MR. T. P. BUNTING TO DR. WARREN. If, however, contrary to every reasonable and

King-st. Manchester, April 21, 1835. charitable conjecture, any motive shall induce you Sir-The object of my former communication, as to evade a plain, positive, and immediate answer to to your reported observations at the Bury meeting this letter, it is not my intention again to address having been fully answered by your positive denial you in this way.--I am, Sir,

that you made them-I need not enter into any Your very obedt, servt.

vindication of the unquestionable veracity of my T. PERCIVAL BUNTING, informants. Your assertion that you do not beThe Rev. Dr. Warren.

lieve that any leaves were ever taken out of the

Conference Journal sufficiently establishes that fact DR. WARREN TO MR. T. P. BUNTING.

and it would be useless to moot the question Oldham-st. Manchester, April 18, 1834, whether or not you have always said so. Sir I have long ago ceased to be astonished at An acute, but, perhaps, somewhat fanciful friend, any thing which my opponents may affirm, in the has suggested that the last paragraph of your re. most solemn manner to be truth, though incontesti- ply contains a sarcasm, however dull and indistinct, bly false. The information which you say has been upon my "inexperienced youth." If such were given you, and at which you are greatly astonished, your intention, I can only assure you, in all simis a most atrocious falsehood !_namely, that I said plicity, that I remember instances in which I have at the Bury public meeting, in reference to the non- been so far suspecting and experienced, as to deappearance of the documents which I expected to tect in individuals of respectable reputation, and find in the Journals of the Wesleyan Conference, of greater pretensions, those characteristics, that the“ Conference men, base in principle as in act, which others were much slower in discerning, but must have taken three, four, or more leaves out of which all honest men now cordially unite in deYhat large volume." No such words ever passed my testing. I am, Sir, your very obedt. servt., lips ! On the contrary, when I have been asked

T. PERCIVAL BUNTING. whether I had reason to suspect that any leaves had The Rev. Dr. Warren.

FRAGMENTS. No. 2. In the evening, I had a meeting with the preachers, stewards, and several principal friends, together with almost all the leaders (male and female), and endeavoured to set them right on many matters on which they had got very uneasy. It was a very solemn and affecting time; and, I believe, all were determined to leave minor matters, and strive together for the hope of the gospel, laying themselves out, for the future, to be more useful to society at large, and to labour more abundantly to bring sinners to God. On one proposing the question to me" Is Methodism now what it has been p" I answered-“NO! It is more rational, more stable, more consistent, more holy, more useful to the community, and a greater blessing to the world at large.” And all this I found no difficulty in proving.-DR. Adam CLARKE.

I have lived more than three score years and ten; I have travelled a good deal, both by sea and land; I have conversed with and seen many people, in and from different countries; I have studied the principal religious systems in the world; I have read much, thought much, and reasoned much; and the result is-I am persuaded of the simple unadulterated truth of no book but the Bible ; and of the true excellence of no

system of religion but that contained in the Holy Scriptures-and, especially, Chris: tianity, which is referred to in the Old Testament, and fully revealed in the New. And while I think well of and wish well to all religious sects and parties—and especially, to all who love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity-yet, from a long and thorough knowledge of the subject, I am led most conscientiously to conclude, that Christianity itself as existing among those called Wesleyan Methodists, is the purest, the safest-that which is most to God's glory and benefit of mankind; and that, both as to the creed there professed, form of discipline there established, and the consequent moral practice there vindicated. And I believe that among them is to be found the best form and body of divinity that has ever existed in the church of Christ, from the promulgation of Christianity to the present day. To him who would say, “Doctor Clarke, are you not a bigot ?” without hesitation I would answer—"No, I am not : for by the grace of God, I am a Methodist !Amen.-Ibid.

The sign-board, or, as it may be called, the bill of fare which certain men of business exhibit on their shops or warehouses, to attract attention, determines in a great degree what shall be the character of their customers. It does not, in the first instance, at least, exert any influence in the formation of their character; but in selection it works wonders ; and there is as attractive and talismanic an affinity between certain sign-boards and certain characters, as there is between the wonder-working magnet and the steel-filings—which, as every body knows, will find out and embrace each other in any crowd, however great, and under any disguise, however deep. Tradesmen! look well to your sign-boards. Authors ! look well to your prospectuses and title-pages; you have the selection of your customers and readers in your own power. And Ö ye Methodists! take care how you attempt to alter the Wesleyan bill of fare. If you change this, you must prepare for such a change of customers as, perhaps, you are little aware of. Only do as some reformers wish, and emblazon on the old Wesleyan sign-board, in flowing characters, “ Hostility to the Church of England maintained here,”—“Unrestrained license of discussion allowed here,"_" An echo to the spirit of the age kent up here,”—“A perfect equality of political rights dealt out here,”-“Mutual suspicion, &c. &c. tolerated here,” - Subjection to rule or authority dispensed with here;"_and what will be the consequence? Why, you will get a certain increase of 14,383 members before Conference, besides retaining all the Association men—not excepting the president of that “Grand” community, who, in his zeal to promote Methodist reform, challenged Mr. Scarih, of Leeds, to fight a duel! But what gain would this be to the cause of Christ? It would be such a gain as the northern barbarians were to the Roman empire, or the greedy locusts to the green herbs of Egypt. It would gain strife, and debate, and schism to us. It would gain a set of men who would engage us in discussions about “mint and anise and cummin,” whilst the weightier matters of the law were neglected. The rights of man, although not better understood nor taken care of, would be more talked of; but the rights of Christ would be neglected and trampled upon. Look at some other communities which offer accommodation in these matters, as a staple article in their trade, and let the Methodists learn how much better it is to retain the original motto upon Mr. Wesley's sign-board-“We have nothing to do but to save souls.”—Rev. J. M'LEAN.

Wesleyan Methodism does not covet the communion of persons who take more pleasure in contending for a licentious liberty than in promoting the work of faith and the labour of love. It has dealt exclusively in soul-work from the beginning; and, blessed be God, there are thousands among us who would suffer martyrdom rather than allow it to be diverted from this, its holy, its legitimate employment.-Some may think that the Methodists should, in these liberal times, relax somewhat of the rigidity of their diseipline; but the Methodists themselves think that there never was a time when they were so loudly called to maintain and enforce it, both on preachers and people. In former days, there were few temptations for worldly, ambitious, strife-loving men to join us : poverty and persecution were our safeguards and our barriers. But the state of things is altered now : our number, our wealth, our political influence, are strong temptations for worldly men to come amongst us; and the scriptural liberality of our terms of communion, lay us more open to their annoyance than other sects of a less catholic character, If a strict, a godly discipline be surrendered, the flood-gates will be thrown open. In that case, the sooner Methodism be swept away the better; for it will have proved itself an unfit instrument for the holy God to employ in evangelizing the world. But I have no fear of that, whilst the present generation of preachers and people exist. The recent agitations, however painful in some respects, have done immense gcod to the cause of Wesleyan orthodoxy. The attachment of our beloved people to a system which God hath so highly honoured, has not only been proved, but, in thousands of

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