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Mr. BRAND. Is there any tuberculosis in your family, your parents?

Mr. KATZEN. No, sir.

Mr. BRAND. There is one other question about the girls laughing. Do you mean to say that they were making fun of the boys or just laughing on account of something between themselves?

Mr. KATZEN. I do not know why they were laughing, but they were joking right along and did not take this matter in a business

like way.

Mr. BRAND. They were joking with each other or joking with the boys?

Mr. KATZEN. Joking with each other.
Mr. BRAND. Was it about the boys or about something else?
Mr. KATZEN. It appeared that they were joking about the boys.
Mr. BRAND. Were the boys right there where they could hear it?
Mr. Katzen. Yes, sir; right there taking down the history.

Mr. BRAND. Did that joking interfere with their work of taking down the histories?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes; part of it must have interfered with their : work.

Mr. BRAND. Did the boys say anything to them about that sort of conduct, say anything to the girls about that conduct?

Mr. KATZEN. I did not hear them say anything to the girls.
Mr. BRAND. I mean to the girls.
Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BRAND. Or did they say something to each other about it?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BRAND. Do you really think they were making fun or sport of
the boys?
Mr. Katzen. Yes, sir; in a way, I think.
Mr. BRAND. How often did that happen?

Mr. KATZEN. Every time they took down the history when they were writing the histories and taking it down.

Mr. BRAND. They had the wrong girls at work then, if that is true.

Mr. KATZEN. Some of them, yes. Some of them were trying to help out the boys as much as they could, and some of them did not.

Nr. BRAND. Did they treat you properly and fairly?
Mr. KATZEN. Not all of them. Some of them did.
Mr. BRAND. In what way did they mistreat you?

Mr. KATZEN. Mistreat you when you would tell them something; they would bawl you out. So he bawled me out, in a way.

Nr. BRAND. Did the same man do that, or a different man?
Mr. KATZEN. A different man.
Mr. BRAND. More than one?
Mr. KATZEN. A few of them.
Mr. BRAND. How many?
Mr. KATZEN. About two.
Mr. BRAND. Do you know the names of these physicians?

Mr. KATZEN. Well, I can not think of their names very well. happened quite a while ago.

Mr. Brand. That is a pretty serious charge against these physicians dealing with afflicted people. Do you know why they are doing things like that?

It

man.

Mr. KATZEN. I believe in a person talking to a person in a legal way and doing the right thing, to tell them whether or not he is entitled to training.

Mr. BRAND. Yes, I do, too. I do not mean to approve that doctor's conduct. If that is true, I think it is a serious charge.

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BRAND. Did it appear to you why they should be treating you that way?

Mr. KATZEN. It appeared to me that they did not think much about me. It appeared to me that they were indifferent. The last doctor that I had was very good. He was talking to me as man to

Mr. Brand. With all this delay, however, and this treatment of the doctors, and the girls making sport of the boys, you are at pres. ent satisfied with the situation?

Mr. KATZEN. In a way, yes.

Mr. BRAND. You have answered it, "In a way." What do you mean by that, that you would want to go somewhere else or take other training?

Mr. KATZEN. No; but simply I have a feeling I can not make progress as I would like to.

Vir. BRAND. That is not on account-
Mr. KATZEN. No; that is not their fault.
Mr. BRAND. That is on account of your

condition?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.
Mr. DALLINGER. When did you enlist in the Army?
Mr. KATZEX. The first time?
Mr. DALLINGER. No.
Mr. KATZEN. During the war?
Mr. DALLINGER. Yes.
Mr. KATZEN. It was December 6, 1917.
Mr. DALLINGER. How long were you in the service!
Mr. KATZEN. Over 16 months.
Mr. DALLINGER. Were you on this side, or did you go across?
Mr. KATZEN. I went over to France.
Mr. DALLINGER. How long were you in France?
Mr. KATZEN. Eleven months.
Mr. DALLINGER. Were you wounded?
Mr. KATZEX. No sir.
Mr. DALLINGER. Were you sick over there?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes; I was in the hospital.
Mr. DALLINGER. Never gassed?

Mr. KATZEN. I think I was gassed in the Argonne. There were 46 left out of our company-Company M, Four hundred and fourteenth Infantry.

Mr. DALLINGER. You never had any of this trouble-bronchitisbefore you were gassed in the Argonne?

Mr. KATZEN. No, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. In the entire trouble with your nose and throat, they never treated you for your lungs?

Nr. KATZEN. No, sir; never treated it. I had that sort of trouble in the Argonne. We all coughed, and since that time I am hoarse. We left about October 27, and took the stand behind the lines the whole night long; it was cold and we were coughing.

Mr. DALLINGER. How long were you in the hospital over in France ?

Mr. KATZEN. December 16. I was in the hospital out there until I was sent across.

Mr. DALLINGER. Roughly, how long were you in the hospital, one month or two months?

Mr. KATZEN. About three months in France.
Mr. DALLINGER. Did you come back with your regiment?
Mr. KATZEN. No, sir.
Mr. DALLINGER. You came right back here?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. You were in the hospital in this country after you came back?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. How long, roughly, in the hospital here in this country?

Mr. KATZEN. Over a month.
Mr. DALLINGER. Where were you?
Mr. KATZEN. Camp Dix.

Mr. DALLINGER. During any of the time you were in the hospital in France or in this country were you called upon by any agent of the Vocational Board who told you about this training?

Mr. Katzen. No, sir. In France, the Red Cross representative called upon me.

Mr. DALLINGER. Did he tell you anything about this!

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir; took down my name and address and told me.

Mr. DALLINGER. He said the Government had provided training for these boys incapacitated as a result of their service ?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.
Mr. DALLINGER. You never heard anything of this matter at Camp
Dix while in the hospital taking training!

Mr. KATZEN. No, sir.
Mr. DaLLINGER. Never got any attention from the board there?
Mr. KATZEN. No, sir.
Mr. DALLINGER. When did you first learn about this training?
Mr. KATZEN. I first learned of it through the Red Cross.

Mr. DALLINGER. After you came over into this country, when did you first hear about it?

Mr. Katzen. After I got discharged, I did; it was in May.
Mr. DaLLINGER. May, 1919?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes.
Mr. DALLINGER. How did you hear about it?
Mr. KATZEN. The Red Cross sent me a letter.
Mr. DALLINGER. The Red Cross sent you a letter?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir; and when I went over to the Red Cross, there was a Federal board agent there, and I made out the application which he gave me to make out.

Mr. DALLINGER. It was in May, 1919 ?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes.

Mr. DALLINGER. I understood you to say that you did not begin training until December 1?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. That was May until December, 1919, you were waiting?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. Was any explanation or excuse ever given to you by any employee of the board as to this delay? Mr. KATZEN. No, sir.

Mr. DaLLINGER. Now, there seems to be some misunderstanding in regard to the money that you have received. Do I understand that the money you are now getting you get from the War Risk Insurance Bureau?

Mr. KATZEN. I am getting my check from the Federal board.
Mr. DALLINGER. You are?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. When did you first begin to get checks from the War Risk Insurance Bureau ?

Mr. KATZEN. I got it first from the War Risk in October.

Mr. DALLINGER. I understand that from May-you were discharged in May?

Mr. KATZEN. In April.

Mr. DALLINGER. From April until October you received nothing from the Government?

Mr. KATZEN. No, sir.
Mr. DALLINGER. Not a cent?
Mr. KATZEN. Not a cent.

Mr. DALLINGER. Either from the War Risk Insurance or the Vocational Board ?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir; I got-
Mr. DALLINGER. How did you get along during that time?

Mr. KATZEN. I was trying to work at different times at Edison's and the Red Cross helped me out.

Mr. DALLINGER. Did anybody else help you?
Mr. KATZEN. Except friends.

Mr. DALLINGER. In October you got your first check; from whomthe War Risk?

Mr. KATZEN. The war-risk insurance.
Mr. DALLINGER. How much was it!
Mr. KATZEN. $245.
Mr. DALLINGER. That was some back pay?
Mr. KATZEN. That was compensation approved.

Mr. DALLINGER. When did you make your application to the War Risk Insurance Bureau ?

Mr. KATZEN. I made it, that is, when I first made out the application for the Vocational Board.

Mr. DALLINGER. I am talking about the War Risk Insurance Bureau. You got a check from the war risk in October for $245. Did they tell you or did you know from what date that was supposed to pay?

Mr. KATZEN. That money was paid at $45 a month since I got discharged.

Mr. DALLINGER. $45 a month from the time of your discharge from the Army?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. That is what I am trying to get at. You receive the check for $245 in October. When did you get any other moneks from the Government?

Mr. KATZEN. The other money was $15 a month from the warrisk insurance.

Mr. DALLINGER. Do you get $45 every month?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir; and then they increased it to $90 a month.

Mr. DaLLINGER. When did you first begin to get a check from the
Federal board?
Mr. Katzen. In January.

Mr. DALLINGER. That is, you began your training the 1st of December?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. So for the month of December you got your check from the Vocational Board; is that right?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. You are now getting $115 a month. Are you getting it regularly?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir; get it every two weeks.
Mr. DALLINGER. In semi-monthly installments ?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. I want to ask you a little more in detail about these doctors. As I understand it, you were examined probably eight times by doctors connected with the Vocational Board ? Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. And I understood you to say that you thought two of them treated you with indifference and were not courteous to you. Is that right?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes sir.
Mr. DaLLINGER. wo out of eight?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes sir.
Mr. DaLLINGER. Did the other doctors treat you all right?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir; at times. They all treated me alike but
then they were talking and bawling me out.

Mr. DALLINGER. They bawled you out?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DaLLINGER. Did all of those doctors give you a thorough examination?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.
Mr. DALLINGER. Did you strip each time?
Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. Did they use the stethescope to put over your lungs and heart?

Mr. KATZEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. I understood you to say that you could not remember the names of those two doctors that bawled you out. Can you describe them to us? Can you remember about what time it was this first doctor bawled you out?

Mr. KATZEN. No, sir; I can hardly remember it.

Mr. DALLINGER. Was it early during your series of examinations or later?

Mr. KATZEN. It was later. I happened to meet a few doctors.

Mr. DALLINGER. When were you first examined in 1919? You were discharged from the Army in May. When was the first examination by the doctors of the Vocational Board ? Mr. KATZEN. It was, I think, in May or June.

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