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Mr. Robsion. And you feel that the board has neglected you, do you?

Mr. DuNSTALL. Yes; I just about gave them up.

Mr. ROBSION. And you tell the committee that there are other young men at this school that you speak of that were not suited to be there and were not doing anything there?

Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes, sir.

Mr. RobsIon. Why were they not doing anything? Was it just because they were lazy or that they didn't understand it!

Mr. DUNSTALL. No, there was nobody to show them. There was nobody there to show them.

Mr. ROBSION. What are you going to do now?

Mr. DUNSTALL. I don't know. I will take up schooling if somebody will show me how.

Mir. ROBSION. I would like to ask you the question, what it is now that you want to do, that you feel that you can do?

Mr. DUNSTALL. Well, if I could get so that I could drive a truck I would be satisfied.

Mr. ROBSION. You worked on a farm when you went into the Army?

Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. ROBSION. And how much is one leg shorter than the other?
Mr. DUNSTALL. About three inches.

Mr. Robsion. And is there any other thing wrong with you besides that?

Mr. DUNSTALL. My leg is stiff. Mr. RobSION. Was any of the bone taken out of it? Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes; the bone was taken out up here [indicating). Mr. Robsion. Is that leg as large as the other one, the leg that is injured? Is it as big as the other one? Mr. DUNSTALL. No, sir. Mr. ROBSION. And you can't farm? Mr. DUNSTALL. No; I tried to farm but I could not. Mr. ROBSION. And you can not do other heavy manual labor? Mr. DUNSTALL. No, sir. Mr. ROBSION. And have you any money or property to live on? Mr. DUNSTALL. No, sir.

Mr. ROBsion. Then you must have this training in order to get along in the world? Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROBSION. Now, when you get back to Newark or New York are you willing to go before the board and try to get them to give you some training that is suitable for you? Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes, sir. Mr. ROBSION. That is all. : The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Dunstall, how old did you say you are? Mr. DUNSTALL. I am going on 37. The CHAIRMAN. And you reached the fourth grade in school? Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How long since you have been in school? Mr. DUNSTALL. I haven't been to school since-well, I quit school when I was sent to the orphans' home in Canada.

The CHAIRMAN. You haven't been in school then for a good many Fears?

Mr. DUNSTALL. No, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Can you read ?
Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You have received some letters, have you not, from
the board ?
Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Could you read them?
Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes; I can read them all right.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you save any of the letters that you got?
Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes, sir; I have them in my pocket-my overcoat

The C'HAIRMAN. Could you answer the letters?
Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Will you let us look at the letters?
Mr. DUNSTALL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You can get them later. We will excuse you, Mr. Dunstall.

Mr. Kanter, will you take the stand? Give your full name and address. .



(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) Mr. KANTER. My name is Irving Kater, 35 Gray Rock Place, Stamford, Conn.

The CHAIRMAN. You were in the service, Mr. Kanter? Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir; 18 months. The CHAIRMAN. Were you overseas? Mr. KANTER. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What branch of the service were you in? Mr. KANTER. I was in the Ninety-eighth Coast Artillery, and I kind of got disabled at Fort Totten, and I believe they transferred to the Quartermaster Corps, and I was discharged from the Quartermaster Corps.

The CHAIRMAN. In what way were you disabled ? Mr. KANTER. I had a double rupture, with flat feet, third degree. The CHAIRMAN. When were you discharged ? Mr. KANTER. January 18, 1919. The CHAIRMAN. Where were you discharged ? Mr. KANTER. At Fort Totten, N. Y. The CHAIRMAN. You had made application for training? Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir; about 11 months ago, at the War Risk, not with the Federal board.

The CHAIRMAN. At the War Risk? Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What was the finding of the War Risk? Mr. KANTER. Well, I waited about eight or nine months for it, and I received my whole check in full.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the compensation per month? Mr. KANTER. Sixteen dollars; and then under the Sweet bill they advanced me $4 more, making $20. I am getting $20 now.

The CHAIRMAN. You got the back pay?

Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you made any application for training?
Mr. KANTER. With the War Risk?
The CHAIRMAN, No; with the Vocational Board ?

Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir; around November—the War Risk told me that I was entitled to vocational training, and therefore I went down to the Vocational Board in New York and applied for training.

The CHAIRMAN. When was that?
Mr. KANTER. In November; I don't know just the date.
The CHAIRMAN. In November of last year—1919 ?
Mr. KANTER. In November; yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Last year?
Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir-no; it is only three or four months ago.
The CHAIRMAN. That would be since November, 1919.
Now, tell us your experience with the board.

Mr. KANTER. Well, I went up there for my training and they examined me the same day, or the next day, I am not sure, and I asked the doctor how did it look for my training and he said, “ Why, you will get it sure." And I come around about three or four weeks after and they told me—a girl there told me

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Had you been asked to come back in three or four weeks?

Mr. KANTER. No; they told me they would let me know, and I was very anxious about this training, because I haven't done anything since I have been out of the Army. I have been operated on between times at St. Francis Hospital. The Red Cross sent me up there.

The CHAIRMAN. Then you went back in three weeks, and what did you get then?

Mr. KANTER. Well, I got-some girl told me, “ You won't get section 2 training; you will get section 3 training.” Some girl told me that.

The CHAIRMAN. You wanted section 2?
Mr. KANTER. Well, yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Section 2 has compensation?
Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. And that is what you wanted?
Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you find somebody there who could give you a definite answer?

Mr. KANTER. Well, I didn't know where to go at the time. I was just green at it that time. I didn't know where to go, and I just kind of walked out. Then I received a letter about two weeks after stating that I was only entitled to section 3 training, so I went back to Mr. Wilcox, I believe

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Who is Mr. Wilcox? Mr. KANTER. He is the advisor, I believe; and I told him I was handicapped, that I only had a fifth-grade education, and I can't go out and do the same work I used to do, and I would like to have, if it was possible, my training changed to section-2 training, and he went back and he had it changed that same day.

The ('HAIRMAN. This was Mr. Wilcox?
Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir; Mr. Wilcox.

The CHAIRMAN. He was in authority there? He had some authority there?

Mr. KANTER. I don't know. He went in back somewhere and had it changed for section-2 training. This was the local board, and they had a branch of the Washington authorities somewhere else in New York, which I don't know the number or the street, and they disapproved it about two weeks after—they disapproved section-2 training and gave me section-3 training.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wilcox reported to you that you would get section 2, and later the board disapproved it?

Mr. KANTER. No; you haven't got me there. The local board—the board at New York agreed to give me section-2 training.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that the one to which Mr. Wilcox is attached !

Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir; and the Washington authorities, somewhere in New York—I don't know just where they were—wanted to give me section-3 training. So I didn't know what to do, and I just happened to get back pay from the War Risk under the Sweet bill, and I thought I would go up and see my Congressman-Congressman Merritt, of Connecticut—and I went up and explained my case. That was January 17.

The CHAIRMAN. This year!

Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir. And he made a date at 2 o'clock for the Federal board here in the central office and had me reexamined, looked over, and that man told me that I should have gotten my training nine months ago; that I was entitled to my training nine months ago—section-2 training. I was treated very highly in Washington. 'The Federal board was very good to me in Washington, but when I got to the New York office they wouldn't reason with me, and I went down there with a letter stating-I have got the letters right here saying they would give me training without unnecessary delav.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me have that letter, please.
(The witness handed the letter to the chairman.)

Mr. KANTER. It seems as though they took me down to school down there and kept me down there two weeks.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will read the letter. This is dated January 19, 1920, and is addressed to Congressman Schuyler Merritt:

DEAR CONGRESSMAN MERRITT: I am pleased to inform you that Mr. Irving Kanter, whom you brought to this office on the 16th instant regarding his desire for training, has been examined by our medical officers and also has been taken care of by the War Risk Bureau. He is returning to New York to-day with a letter from this office informing our representative, Mr. William A. Clark, that Mr. Kanter is eligible for training under section 2, anil requesting that he be placed in training without unnecessary delay.

That was January 19.

Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir. I got training around the 24th of the month. I had to go to the American Legion in order to get it. They told me to come back in two weeks—that is, the New York Federal board.

The CHAIRMAN. You started in your training when?
Mr. KANTER. About the 24th of the month.
The CHAIRMAN. Of January!
Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And have you been pursuing that ever since?

Mr. KANTER. No, sir; I went down to Seward Park, 197 East Broadway.

The CHAIRMAN. What were you to do?

Mr. KANTER. Well, I was to take up precious stone setting-diamond setting; I understand that: and it seems as though they are on a strike, and therefore Mr. Benway and Mr. Chappelle have told me that they can't give it to me. Well, I was reasoning with them about that, and they told me they would send me down to school, where I could learn something. I only had a fifth-grade education, and I went down there for two weeks, and who comes along but Mr. Matteson, and he come up and told me—he says, " Mr. Kanter, how about changing your course to something else? “ I says, " What is that?" He says, "How about shoemaker or fountain-pen maker?” I said I wouldn't care for that. I says, “Why not send me to something that I understand, like precious stone setting or something like that, or send me to a pawnbroker's house, where I can learn a little more?” “Well,” he says, “ You will have to go up and see Mr. Clark or Mr. Benway.”

Well, I went up and saw Mr. Clark that night about 5.30, and that was in the middle of January, I believe--no, February—and I told them that Mr. Matteson had told me that my training would be discontinued if I didn't take some other course. So Mr. Clark called up Mr. Benway, in charge of me-he is in charge of the placement training, I believe-and Mr. Benway told me the same words. “Well,” I said, "why don't you let me stay down in school? I am doing fine down there, and I have a letter from the teacher saying I was doing very nicely."

The CHAIRMAN. Well, Mr. Kanter, you were not working in precious-stone setting because there was a strike; was that it?

Mr. KANTER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And consequently the board could not be held responsible for that?

Mr. KANTER. No, I reasoned with them to send me to school where I could learn mathematics and all like that, which I need. I can't add fractions or anything like that, and I certainly did like it down there.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been doing that?
Mr. KANTER. About 36 days.

The CHAIRMAN. And they have told you that you must discontinue it?

Mr. KANTER. That was two weeks—I was down there only two weeks and Mr. Matteson told me that.

The CHAIRMAN. Who is Mr. Matteson?
Mr. KANTER. He is an advisor for the Federal board, I believe.
The CHAIRMAN. And what are you doing now!

Mr. KANTER. I am doing nothing. They want to send me around from one place to another. The CHAIRMAN. When did you stop it?

Mr. KANTER. The way I found out my training was discontinued was I went up to the Elks fund. I borrowed about $50 from the Elks fund_$50 or $60, I don't know which one day they tell me $50 and the next day $60, and I don't know what they are trying to

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