urgent desire of all the communities embraced in the presentation that the project already approved by the United States Board of Engineers have favorable consideration at the hands of your committee.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Mr. HOBSON. I would like to present at this time, Mr. Weston B. Grimes, of Cargill, Inc., of Minneapolis, Minn.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. You may proceed, Mr. Grimes.

STATEMENT OF WESTON B. GRIMES, CARGILL, INC.,
MINNEAPOLIS, MINN.

Mr. GRIMES. We are in the grain business, which may seem a little strange among these coal people. We favor the development of the Big Sandy River because it is our considered opinion that we will be able to move about half a million tons of grain per year into that area for distribution in the Shenandoah Valley and the Carolinas. We operate our own waterway equipment and we have grain-handling facilities at Minneapolis, Kansas City, St. Louis, Gunthersville, and several other places on the inland waterways system at the present time.

We serve this territory of the Shenandoah Valley and the Carolinas at present by railroad from Buffalo, Toledo, or Chicago. We have been seeking for several years an outlet via water to the territory. We think that this is the answer to the problem.

Except to again mention the tonnage figure, which we believe to be about 112 million tons a year, that is all I have to say.

Mr. HOBSON. I would like to introduce at this time Mr. E. L. Mullins, of Local Union No. 7916, Lookout, Ky.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. You may proceed, Mr. Mullins.

STATEMENT OF E. L. MULLINS, REPRESENTING THE UNITED MINE WORKERS OF AMERICA, LOCAL UNION NO. 7916, LOOKOUT, KY.

Mr. MULLINS. I am one of Lewis' coal dealers. I work at the base of the coal, you might say, about 10 miles under the ground. I represent my local of the Semet-Solvay plant at Henry Clay, Ky., and I was sent here to speak for them through a resolution.

I have a resolution I would like to read for you:

UNITED MINE WORKERS OF AMERICA, LOCAL UNION 7916

HENRY CLAY OPERATION, LOOKOUT, KY.

The Semet-Solvay interests began to operate coal mines at Marrowbone Creek, in Pike County, in the near 1916, and continued the operation until the year 1938, a period of 22 years.

During this period the major portion of the coal produced at the Marrowbone mine, commonly known as Henry Clay, was shipped to the coke ovens at Ashland, Ky.

The men who worked in the mines here during this long period had mostly been reared in the vicinity of the mines, and in a great many instances owned their own property, had their children in schools in the neighborhood, and in many other ways had firmly established roots here on Marrowbone and in the surrounding area. Most of them had plans to stay here, and they were looking forward to a reasonable degree of security, depending, of course, upon the continued operation of the mine at Henry Clay by Semet-Solvay Co.

In the latter part of the year 1938, the mine at Henry Clay was closed; and the ovens at Ashland and Ironton began to get their coal from other places, where

they could take advantage of the savings of barging coal by water. The men who had worked at Henry Clay were offered employment by a company at Montgomery, and some of them went to work there, but on the whole the situation was never satisfactory to the men who had worked here.

The mine here at Henry Clay was reopened in February 1942 and has since been operating. There is a deep-seated fear among the men who work here that with the end of the demand for coal which has existed during the war period, the mine here will close down again, and that the ovens at Ironton and Ashland will no longer be able to take the coal produced at Henry Clay in competition with coal which comes to these locations at cheaper freight rates.

There is probably no place in this whole section of the country which was as hard hit by the depression of 1930, and particularly after 1938, as Marrowbone Creek; and, in spite of the activity there in coal production during the war, all the people on Marrowbone Creek are now very sensitive to the future of the coal industry on Marrowbone.

The people on Marrowbone desire to see the coal industry continue in full swing on Marrowbone Creek, and they are convinced that the advantages afforded by water transportation will make it possible to continue the coal industry here, and that without water transportation our future on Marrowbone Creek is very uncertain.

In view of the foregoing, it is now resolved by Local Union 7916 of the United Mine Workers of America, the membership of which is all employed at the Henry Clay mine of Semet-Solvay Co. at Lookout, Ky., That we favor the canalization of Big Sandy River and of Levisa Fork thereof. We believe the project is sound, and a great amount of coal will be transported upon the river, and that the completion of the project will save for us our means of livelihood in the vicinity in which we are accustomed to work and live.

We respectfully urge the Board of Engineers to make a favorable report to Congress on this improvement.

E. L. MULLINS,

W. M. GIBSON,
TOM LANHAM,

Committee.

Adopted October 28, 1945, in meeting of Local Union 7916, United Mine Workers of America.

I would like to say that we recommend this project, and I want to file this statement with the committee. I want to say further, that our town was one on relief there that the mayor talked about. I verify his statement that that is true. Every word he told you is true. I was one of them. In order to get work I crossed over 13 mountains in going into the Great Kanawha district. There I found them all operating, running and working. At that time, I was looking for work. I went up there and asked the Brotherhood of United Mine Workers what the trouble was. I commented upon the fact that they were busy and working and making money. I wanted to know what the matter was. One of the men told me, "You damn Kentuckians have been lying over there asleep in the Big Sandy Valley and you have not gone up and asked your Congressman and Senators to put in this lock and dam project like we have in the Kanawha Valley. If you had, you would be working like we are."

I am speaking from the pits. This petition shows that the miners fell in line, and I was at the head of this line of the ones that signed the petitions that have been presented here. These petitions contain the personal signatures of, I would guess, 15,000 of Lewis' miners along in that section of the country. I am speaking of these petitions that you will find in the file. Do not let us down.

Let me leave with you this message: I want to talk straight from the pits. This is my second appearance of ever appearing in public and I am scared.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. You have no reason to be scared, Mr. Mullins.

Mr. MULLINS. If I did not come from the pits 10 miles under the ground, I would not be like this today. If you were to go with me, I guess you would be unnerved down there.

This is the message I want to leave with you: These miners have told me to leave it with you. For God's sake, do not let them down. We do not want to go back to the Kanawha Valley and be without work. We want to work in our valley. We stood in this bread line with this group, my family went ragged. This is in our system and in our blood, this lock and dam project. If you cannot give it to us we are going to put it in our records, and there are lots of locals, lots of coal diggers, and they have their ears glued to the radios, or will have, listening for this, and they have told me to leave this message: When I go back down, go deep in this mine to my work, I will load coal. I load about 200 tons every 20 working shifts myself. I have ligaments cut in my wrists and scars on my head. I have them all over me, and yet I will go back in that mine. We do not want you to let us down. We are looking to you, and we are trusting you.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. I understand your position, Mr. Mullins. There has been a demand for all the coal that could be produced. Of course, you have employment now. They are using the coal out of those mines to a degree, but even now you are not getting out as much coal as you would be getting if you had this water transportation? Mr. MULLINS. Certainly not.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. When times get back to what we might call normal, you will again be at the same position you were in when you were thrown out of employment. You could not compete with the other mines.

Mr. MULLINS. That is what we are afraid of and what we do not want.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. Then you do not subscribe to these statements in these various telegrams here?

Mr. MULLINS. That is way off to one side, my friend, and not in our valley. I am speaking for men right direct in this valley along the river way.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. Do you know of any opposition on the part of the miners in this valley?

Mr. MULLINS. I defy John L. Lewis to come up to my section up there and find one miner, or one businessman-that is right up in my section there-one businessman, one farmer or anyone of anybody that opposes this project.

We coal loaders have a seal for letters coming from our district to, perhaps, Congressman May there. Let me tell you what the seal is. When you see a letter come in here and you see tracks on it, those are bug-dust tracks. That is our seal. When you find those bug-dust tracks or coal tracks on these letters that we sat down and tried to write to you, then you know that our district man is not speaking for us. That is original. That is right direct from us. That is where I am from. Tom Raney does not come out and see us, and there are

65,000 of us in that district. I personally know most of that 65,000 in that section. Nor does the president of our district, Sam Caney, come out to see us. He will be here tomorrow, I guess, but he is not speaking from the pits like I am, this is the voice of the miners speaking direct to you men, and I want you to believe me.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. I have heard nothing direct from Mr. Lewis, but it has been generally stated that he is opposed to this project. I presume from that that he is not speaking to you people. Mr. MULLINS. He is certainly not, and neither is our district. We speak for ourselves right now. I want to tell you we are with him 100 percent when he is right, and we are against him when he is wrong and he knows that.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. You can be commended for that, sir. Mr. MULLINS. We do not go to the district-Tom Raney is our district man, and Sam Caney is the president of this district. We, up there, do not go to those men when we think we are sure that they are wrong. We are going to speak for ourselves right out of the pits of these mines and that is what I am doing today.

I would dare a man to go to my plant and go to work and say, "I oppose the river projects." I pity his nose a few minutes afterward. It is in our system and it is in our blood. We are going to have the waterway sometime or other or keep on trying. We will send our Congressman up here, as the fellows have told you, again and again, and I am a Republican. Mr. May, if you ever want to come back up here and you need this old miner, you know where I live. And I am not speaking only for myself. I can get hundreds and probably thousands. Furthermore, I want to tell you, when we go back down and go to work, and I am speaking from the bottom of my heart and I am speaking for these other miners, too, we do not want to go back on relief, for God's sake, no. We want you men to consider this old coal loader's statement, what I am saying here. When I go back down, I go down in the pits, a lot of us go down on our knees to load this coal, because I am a little tall. I have to go down on my knees. When I am down on my knees, I will say to you, in all earnestness and from the bottom of my heart, and I speak for the other men down in the valley, we go down on our knees to load this coal. We will send up a prayer to Almighty God that you might be guided to make a favorable recommendation for this project. I thank you.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. Mr. Mullins, the only thing I do not understand is why they did not make you the first witness here, as you certainly, in my opinion, were the most effective one we have had.

Mr. HOBSON. Let me present at this time Mr. Harry F. Emsley, of Cabell County, W. Va.

STATEMENT OF HARRY F. EMSLEY, REPRESENTING THE AMERICAN FEDERATION OF LABOR, CABELL COUNTY, W. VA.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. You may proceed, Mr. Emsley. Mr. EMSLEY. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, gentlemen, I am Harry F. Emsley, Cabell County, Huntington, W. Va. I have been a resident of that county since I was 1 year old, which was a long time ago, nearly 58 years. I will just speak extemporaneously, briefly, because I have no prepared reading, but it will not be for long, I assure you, Mr. Chairman.

You might say, "Why has Cabell County injected itself into this program?" I want to tell you why, particularly. About the first we knew of it in Cabell County, or Huntington, W. Va., was as a result of a statement coming out in the paper by the local chamber of commerce, whose board of directors, because of pressure brought to bear by one Mr. Herbert Fitzpatrick, who is the high chairman of the board of directors of the Chesapeake & Ohio Railroad, who lives in Huntington, W. Va. At the present time, he is not here, but he is also on the board of directors and urged it. That board, just like we said a while ago, many of them spoke unadvisedly and many other members of that chamber were not consulted and have afterward so demonstrated it by coming into the hotel lobby where we had 2 or 3 days convening of a little booth and a sign up soliciting membership and sponsors approving the canalization of Big Sandy, and several of those members of the chamber of commerce went out boldly and publicly and wrote their signatures and said, "Member, Huntington Chamber of Commerce," and said, "Those fellows cannot do that to me because I am going to speak my own sentiments."

I do not know what pressure has been brought otherwise, but I have seen chicken tracks of it around the country where I have been. In the Williamson meeting, the railroad people had their membership there from all over the country with big yellow badges as big as your hand, demonstrating that they are all there in opposition to this very widespread and very essential thing for the benefit of what the brother said a while ago, for what I consider a large part of the Nation.

About what I said a while ago, as to how we got into the project, when we saw that action being taken there, we realized our constant desire as participants and part of the American Federation of Labor, to advance every commercial and industrial project for the good of the Nation, we passed a resolution and sent a copy of it to, I think, Mr. Merrill or Mr. Vias at Williamson, the secretary of the association. I went up there and heard additional things regarding the story that was helpful to me in determining that I had put in something like 5 or 6 weeks of my time, and I did, in that campaign.

I want to express this as over and against a little statement that appeared in a paper from one certain Congressman in West Virginia, saying that 2,000 bankers, businessmen, railroad and mine employees, and farmers and citizens in West Virginia, Virginia, and Kentucky, were opposed to this program. Of course, I answered that in the paper because it looked like the pressure was insufficient to get a statement very strong because we in Cabell County raised up subscription lists of membership of close to 10,000 in just a few days' time, you might say, those 4 or 5 weeks, and it was done by footwork around, just here and there, among friends of the labor organization.

In that valley within the course of a similar period there was something like 54,000 individual signatures, I understand, and presumably now there is more and I am sure there is, because every place you go to meet people who have heard about it. They are asking about it. They have the vision that the addition of the greatest coal field in the world is going to mean something for the Middle West and mean something particularly for what we might term a "povertystricken section" of Kentucky and West Virginia, and will be a life

saver.