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Mr. BROOKS. He went ahead; you let him do the job; you showed him where you wanted them; you didn't try to stop him?

Mr. MORAN. No.

Mr. BROOKS. You didn't suggest that he get some authority before he started this?

Mr. MORAN. No.

Mr. BROOKS. About what date was it that your Denver office advised you not to proceed with what you had been doing, busily? Mr. MORAN. About what date?

Mr. BROOKS. He started the job about the 26th or 27th?

Mr. MORAN. About the 7th or 8th day of September my Washington office called me and told me not to proceed, to refer the matter to GSA.

Mr. BROOKS. From the 19th of August, when you wrote your superior office in Denver, until about the 6th or 7th day of September before you heard from them?

Mr. MORAN. Pardon?

Mr. BROOKS. That is when you heard next from any office outside of this one?

Mr. MORAN. That's right.

Mr. BROOKS. How long did it take them to finish those partitions? Mr. MORAN. They were finished then.

Mr. BROOKS. They were finished then?

Mr. MORAN. Yes.

Mr. BROOKS. When you heard from Washington they were zipped up?

Mr. MORAN. Yes.

Mr. BROOKS. Unpainted?
Mr. MORAN. No. Painted.
Mr. BROOKS. They were?

Mr. MORAN. They were painted.

Mr. BROOKS. They were all painted by when?

Mr. MORAN. Well, to all intents and purposes they were 90 percent completed, on paint.

Mr. BROOKS. On about September what?

Mr. MORAN. 7th-6th or 7th.

Mr. BROOKS. And you heard from Washington about that date? Mr. MORAN. Yes.

Mr. BROOKS. They said, "Don't do it"?

Mr. MORAN. That's right.

Mr. BROOKS. What did you tell them?

Mr. MORAN. The Washington office?

Mr. BROOKS. Yes, sir; when they gave you somebody called you? Mr. MORAN. Yes.

Mr. BROOKS. They said, "Mr. Moran, I want to tell you not to proceed with this"?

Mr. MORAN. They referred it to the GSA.

Mr. BROOKS. What did you tell GSA?

Mr. MORAN. Nothing.

Mr. BROOKS. You said, "I will refer it to GSA," to see if

get out of the box?

Mr. MORAN. Yes.

you could

Mr. BROOKS. I don't blame you much for not telling them.

Who called you from Washington?

Mr. MORAN. M. D. Kimball.

Mr. BROOKS. How did he happen to get any indication that you were doing anything out there?

Mr. MORAN. Denver evidently talked to him on the phone.

Mr. BROOKS. Denver just bucked it to Washington?

Mr. MORAN. No; Denver didn't because Denver sent it back to me a month later saying, in accordance with-they understood I had talked with Mr. Kimball, and they were throwing the whole thing back to me. That was on the 21st of September.

Mr. BROOKS. It might have been really better to have called them, don't you think?

Mr. MORAN. Yes.

Mr. BROOKS. Or even use an airmail stamp and write them, telling them, "There is a man here who wants to put partitions in, he is building partitions, and I don't know how to stop him, other than haul it out of there," which you could have done easily enough, couldn't you?

Mr. MORAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. That came in a month later, that you got a memo from your Denver office? What did it say, from their counsel out there, saying that you could or could not?

Mr. MORAN. No. It said:

In a recent conversation with M. D. Kimball, it was understood that arrangements had been made with GSA for your requirement of removable partitions. Mr. BROOKS. Read that again.

Mr. MORAN (reading):

In a recent conversation with Mr. M. D. Kimball, it was understood that arrangements have been made with GSA for your requirement of movable partitions. Therefore, we are returning herewith the subject number of requisitions.

Mr. BROOKS. How did Mr. Kimball think that arrangements had been made with GSA when you told him you contacted GSA and had no knowledge as to whether anything had been arranged?

Mr. MORAN. Pardon? This was dated about 2 weeks after Mr. Kimball had first talked to me.

Mr. BROOKS. By then you had made arrangements with GSA to pick up the tab, you thought?

Mr. MORAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Was there a written letter from your counsel in Denver telling you specifically why the CSS couldn't proceed with the installation of the partitions?

Mr. MORAN. No.

Mr. BROOKS. There wasn't any?

Mr. MORAN. No.

Mr. BROOKS. All you got was this note that said, "Kimball tells us that you are all set up with GSA to pick up the tab, and just disregard any further communication from us on this matter"?

Mr. MORAN. That's right.

Mr. BROOKS. What did you do when you learned that you would have to go through GSA?

Mr. MORAN. I got hold of GSA right away.

Mr. BROOKS. Who did you call?

Mr. MORAN. I called-first I called Mr. Collins, and Mr. Burns was there.

Mr. BROOKS. Where?

Mr. MORAN. In the building.

Mr. BROOKS. In the GSA building?

Mr. MORAN. Yes-no; in our building. He was working in this new annex. I told him what the problem was, and we got together. I told him what had happened.

Mr. BROOKS. You told Mr. Collins what you thought the problem was. Did Mr. Burns tell him? I am not following you here.

Mr. MORAN. I told Mr. Collins, "Here they are, the partitions are up. And I am in trouble."

Mr. BROOKS. What day did you call him?

Mr. MORAN. Prior to September 8; probably on September 8 or the day before.

Mr. BROOKS. We can't get past that date.

Did you call anyone in the GSA regional office?

Mr. MORAN. No, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Would you give us the date of the meeting with you and Mr. Smith with Mr. Jay and Mr. Lund?

Mr. MORAN. I don't remember what that date was, but I think you can find it here.

Mr. BROOKS. Some time prior to October 30?

Mr. MORAN. Prior to October 30?

Mr. BROOKS. Some time prior.

Mr. MORAN. It could have been October 30 or earlier.

Mr. BROOKS. It was a couple of months after the work was done, the matter was referred to the GSA, and Mr. Jay and Mr. Lund came out and talked with you. What was the gist of that discussion? Do you remember?

Mr. MORAN. Generally, they told us that the matter could not be handled in the way that they had proposed handling it, and that we had acted beyond our authority in going ahead with these without advising GSÅ.

The matter was discussed with Mr. Smith and myself, and it was decided at that time to go out onto bids. The question arose as to what happened if Henges was the high bidder. We indicated that if that was the case, that Henges had never received authority to put them in, and we would remove them, or they would be removed. Mr. BROOKS. Did they indicate that they would go on and work it out through some bids, or so forth, and get the matter settled? Mr. MORAN. They would try to; yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Did Mr. Collins or anyone in GSA advise you to handle it that way?

Mr. MORAN. Pardon?

Mr. BROOKS. Did anyone in GSA advise you to handle it by having them try to get bids, or was that their idea?

Mr. MORAN. No; that was their idea.

Mr. BROOKS. I want to thank you.

We might ask you about these two smaller jobs that we discussed with Mr Collins. You might remember we discussed those two jobs with him.

Mr. MORAN. I do.

Mr. BROOKS. They are pretty much alike, you remember, he finally agreed.

I wonder why they were divided, why you divided that request for work into two parts, one for installation of the bank partition types and one for the removal and placement of some other installation, both under $2,000, which would bring them within his negotiation authority.

Mr. MORAN. That happened approximately 3 weeks apart.
Mr. BROOKS. Three weeks apart?

Mr. MORAN. That we requested those.

Mr. BROOKS. Pardon me?

Mr. MORAN. My letters were

Mr. BROOKS. Your letters were 3 weeks apart? The reason I said, he seemed to think they were pretty close together, and they were numbered 60078 and 60079. So he must have got them pretty close, I am thinking now; maybe not. I say they were apparently very

close.

I know you want to get this correct. Our letter on September 18 reflects that a Mr. Donald E. Smith, your director, wrote to Mr. Collins on some new temporary type office partitions in the amount of $1,785.

Mr. MORAN. Yes, sir. On October 3.

Mr. BROOKS. And on the job dated September 18

Mr. MORAN. No, sir; that was October 3.

Mr. BROOKS. You may have another one. The two jobs I am talking about are one for $1,785 on September 18, Mr. Moran, and the second one is for $1,247.

Mr. MORAN. I see what you mean.

Mr. BROOKS. On September 18?

Mr. MORAN. Yes.

Mr. BROOKS. They are both for partitions. You may have them confused with some other. My question was, why those were split into two jobs instead of one in the request that went to Mr. Collins? Do you follow me?

Mr. MORAN. I don't know. I am surprised right now, because the two jobs were not in any way related.

Mr. BROOKS. They were both on the second floor?

Mr. MORAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. They were both partitions?

Mr. MORAN. Yes.

Mr. BROOKS. And they were both partitions. In one you removed the partitions and then put them back, and on the other you removed partitions, both on the second floor.

Mr. MORAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. You say they were not in any way related?

Mr. MORAN. Related-I mean on the one the installation of partitions were the bank type partitions. On the removing of partitions, they were in reality the removal of walls.

Mr. BROOKS. And you thought they were separate operations altogether?

Mr. MORAN. No, sir; I don't. I am quite surprised. On the removal of the walls we knew that for weeks ahead, that we were going to do that. I know that we had informed GSA verbally on that not

to do the job, but to have it ready when we wanted it. It had been discussed before. We had discussed that.

Mr. BROOKS. Not because you wanted to separate them?

Mr. MORAN. No, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Normally you would have thought they would have been included together?

Mr. MORAN. That's right.

Mr. BROOKS. Whether they exceeded $2,000 or $5,000?

Mr. MORAN. Yes, sir. In other words, the cost in these instances to us is not the determining factor on that end of it.

Mr. BROOKS. I understand. Mr. Collins had talked to you about how these things were set up.

Mr. MORAN. I did not use it on that basis.

Mr. BROOKS. Any questions?

Mr. WALLHAUSER. No, I haven't.

Mr. BROOKS. I want to say that we certainly do appreciate your staying and coming down to testify, Mr. Moran. I trust that they finished painting them and it will all work out.

Mr. MORAN. Thank you.

Mr. BROOKS. I think, Mr. Wallhauser, that in the morning we had better anticipate calling Mr. Lund and Mr. Jay and Mr. Burns, and I think we can certainly conclude by noon. If we would start again, say, at 9 o'clock in the morning here, we will be grateful to you. Mr. Pike, I hope you can remain over.

(Whereupon, at 5:10 p.m., the subcommittee was recessed, to reconvene at 9 a.m., March 26, 1960.)

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