Of course I would hope to see the Academy enlarged and I would hope to see the graduating class very much enlarged, but that is not going to help in this legislation at all.

All we are doing is making it possible as I see it, Mr. Chairman, to bring the Academy to full strength, which is certainly a desirable thing, I would say, under any conditions.

Isn't that correct, General?

General COUNTS. That is correct, Mrs. St. George.
Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Burns.

Mr. BURNS. General, the passage of this legislation, either the original bill submitted or the alternate proposed, would allow you to actually get more for your money now spent at the Academy. Would that be true?

General COUNTS. Very much so; yes, sir.

Mr. BURNS. Can you give us any figures as of the present time of the numbers that you obtain from the different sources of your officer strength added in every year-so many from the Military Academy, so many from the ROTC, and so many from the others for comparison purposes?

General COUNTS. You mean into the Army?

Mr. BURNS. That's correct, sir.

General COUNTS. I could not.

Colonel HAMBLEN. Sir, we have been commissioning to the Regular Army from the Military Academy between 28 and 30 percent of the total number. The Army's objective is to have 1,600 promotion-type officers admitted to the Regular Army each year.

Our objective is to have half this number come from the service academy. We are getting less than that.

The others come approximately-all of the remainder except for approximately 5 percent-from our distinguished military graduates from our ROTC institutions. The remaining 5, or a small percent, come from direct appointments, approximately 200 a year, and from those few distinguished graduates from our officer candidate schools, sir.

Mr. BURNS. How many officers are you adding?

Colonel HAMBLEN. Annually, approximately 1,600 Regular officers, sir, onto our promotion list. This doesn't include veterinarians and medics and that type-promotion list officers, approximately 1,600 per year, sir.

Mr. BURNS. That is Reserve or otherwise?

Colonel HAMBLEN. This is new Regular officers, sir.

Mr. BURNS. What about Reserves?

Colonel HAMBLEN. Sir, I do not have those figures. I could supply them for the record.

Mr. BURNS. But out of the 1,600 you are getting approximately 500 from the Academy?

Colonel HAMBLEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BURNS. General, on the alternate proposal that you have looked at, what would be your view on that? Is it agreeable to youGeneral COUNTS. There seem to be two things involved in this. Isn't that true-two new items?

One, we have been working under the present law that at least twothirds must be taken from the alternates. This changes it so at least 85 percent must be taken from the alternates.

I don't believe that would handicap us in the slightest. We have been well within that, I believe. In the past 5 years we have had 95 percent of them from the alternates so I would accept that readily.

Then there was a second item that I noticed which is changed.

Mr. DUCANDER. The second item I did not read and I haven't explained it to the subcommittee.

Mr. BROOKS. What is the second item?

Mr. DUCANDER. The second item is-keeping in mind if this proposal is adopted-85 percent of the appointments to fill up the Academy would come from congressional alternates.

In the Air Force Academy legislation, the subcommittee insisted on writing in a provision that there would be only one from each appointing authority-that is, only one from each Member of Congress. That would alleviate any possibility of 1 Member of Congress getting 3 alternates in and another Member of Congress not getting any in. Mr. BROOKS. That was due to Mr. Van Zandt, who has been on this committee for years and never had a nominee to the Academy.

Mr. DUCANDER. That's true. We had several other Members of Congress that had complained.

Mr. BROOKS. The idea was to get a wide distribution.

Mr. DUCANDER. Yes, sir. We could put in one more sentence if the subcommittee likes this language.

General COUNTS. That isn't in here, Mr. Ducander?

Mr. DUCANDER. No; it is not in here.

General COUNTS. I was referring to another change in this one. Mr. BROOKS. What is your other change, General?

General COUNTS. There is a change to basing the strength at the end of the school year, rather than the average of the school year. I consider that a big improvement.

Mr. DUCANDER. Yes.

General COUNTS. I consider it a big improvement and that would alter the figures. It is a big improvement to this extent, that we would now finish our school year under this with our authorized strength at 2,500. We would know, then, that in a 4-year period we are going to graduate 2,500.

Mr. BROOKS. Let me ask you this, General: That sounds very fine, but you start out with your school year full, don't you?

General COUNTS. We would start out overstrength in this case. Mr. BROOKS. All right. It is like a bucket of water. When it is full, if you put any more in it, it is going to flow out. Where are you going to put these extras, these overstrength people? If your Academy is full, how are you going to put them in?

General COUNTS. We have a new barracks building that should be completed by next year that will accommodate 318 cadets. That will put us in a position where we are better off than we are at the present time, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BROOKS. Then actually you would be able to increase the size of the Academy, isn't that true?

General COUNTS. The entering size.

Mr. BROOKS. It would be the size of the Adademy that would be increased by 80 or 90 people.

General COUNTS. More than that now.

Under this wording, it

will be about, say, 200 maybe, allowing for attrition.

Mr. BROOKS. Allowing for attrition it would be about 160?
General COUNTS. In that vicinity.

Mr. DUCANDER. At the end of the school year, you would have your authorized strength.

General COUNTS. That is what we should have at the end of the school year then.

Colonel HAMBLEN. Mr. Brooks, sir, one point that is well to bear in mind, is that when the new cadets come in, there is a whole class absent from the Military Academy, and the new cadets' initial training is done by themselves. So by the time academics begin and all classes return, we have already had a very large attrition, a sizable attrition.

So they never compete for spaces in our overall barracks procedure. Mr. BROOKS. You have to provide for them. For instance, when they come down there on July 1, that is the first day they report, isn't it?

Colonel HAMBLEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Then the incoming class, the freshman class, come down July 1. Then you give them certain training up until September when the academic season begins. You have a certain attrition there.

Colonel HAMBLEN. Yes, sir, we have a sizable attrition.

Mr. BROOKS. They have got to have rooms and they have to have facilities.

Colonel HAMBLEN. They are using the rooms that the other cadets would normally use when they return from academics. The other three classes are either on field trips or on their summer leave. So you see the entire facilities of the Academy are available for this incoming class.

Mr. BROOKS. The men that are away on leave or on leave or on extended tours, those men have no assigend space at all?

Colonel HAMBLEN. That is correct, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. In other words, they give up their rooms.
Colonel HAMBLEN. Absolutely, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. You use those rooms?

Colonel HAMBLEN. That is correct, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Then you have got to hope you have a certain attrition there so that you have the space available when these older men come back.

Colonel HAMBLEN. As the general mentioned, sir, we don't intend, with an overstrength of 160, to put them all in at one time, because each increment of an overstrength lasts for 4 years, so that would be divided by 4. Of course, you are absolutely correct. We would be very sure then, very conservative in our estimating the number we put in to be sure that that situation did not happen. But our position with reference to the cadet ratio to rooms is improving and we now have a barracks-conversion program on this very moment converting our west academic building to barracks space so that even with this bill our position will be emphatically better than it has been in the past.

Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Burns.

Mr. BURNS. If I may, if the chairman will yield, I think in that particular period of time, July to September, you have one of your heaviest attrition periods, especially for resignations, don't you?

Colonel HAMBLEN. That is correct, sir. A lot of these young men have seen movies and TV on West Point and not the hard work that goes with it, and, of course, that's the time when they feel the full brunt of it.

Mr. BROOKS. Then, too, some of them drop out because of physical imperfections that show up during that rigorous physical training period.

Colonel HAMBLEN. A small percentage of them; that is correct, sir. Mr. BROOKS. I think that covers it. Now let me ask you this. Suppose the substitute wording were adopted. For instance, take Mr. Bray; he has no appointment to make this year, but he does have an alternate or two alternates qualified from last year.

Could those alternates be considered?

General COUNTS. Not under our present system; they could not. Mr. BROOKS. Why couldn't they?

General COUNTS. We just don't carry them along once the year terminates for which they have been nominated and they did not get in. I think the mechanism of that would be difficult and believe it would be difficult and I don't believe it would be worthwhile.

Mr. BROOKS. Is there anything in here that says if they are otherwise qualified that they should not be considered?

General COUNTS. No, that isn't written in here. But he loses that right. Once that appointment is washed out, has failed, he loses all rights. He has no further rights to the Military Academy unless he is reappointed.

Mr. BROOKS. If he is just not reached

General COUNTS. If he is reappointed next year, he would be reconsidered.

Mr. BROOKS. Suppose, say, the Congressman has no appointment to make the following year.

Mr. WINSTEAD. He has his quota in the Academy.

General COUNTS. He has his quota in the Academy.

Mr. WINSTEAD. He has it in there or he has a right to make it from year to year.

Mr. BROOKS. I understand that. What I am getting at is different. If the appointing authority has his capacity there already in the Academy, but he has all of it-like I had for instance, 1 year 3 men who were brilliant and they qualified as to age, academically and still interested in it, why shouldn't they be considered also under this wording?

General COUNTS. I have no particular answer to it except what I have said already, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BROOKS. It has not been the practice to do it.

General COUNTS. It has not been the practice. The practice has been that each Congressman has four appointments and once that appointment is filled, that is his quota. It is someone else's quota that are making the appointments next time.

Mr. WINSTEAD. In other words, if I skipped some 2 or 3 yearssuppose I have 4 appointments, 1 each year. If I make them in order and they stick, if 1 fails, then I have two accumulated, say, for this

year.

General COUNTS. Correct.

Mr. WINSTEAD. If I appoint those boys and they stick, there will be 1 year that I don't have a right to nominate a new man to the

Academy because I had my quota. If I understand you correctly, each year stands on its own, but each Member of Congress would still either have his quota or the right to make the appointment.

General COUNTS. That's right.

Mr. WINSTEAD. It would keep any one Member from getting more than his quota at any one time.

General COUNTS. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Colonel HAMBLEN. Mr. Brooks, sir, the point is as to the law, they are qualified alternates, and each Congressman nominates a principal and behind that principal, alternates. Consequently, if the principal goes in, they are no longer qualified alternates after that year's ap pointments.

Mr. BROOKS. Unless you carry them over. But I don't know of anything in the law that says you can't carry over for consideration. The point that my colleague just referred to about being overstrength, if you have two vacancies and you fill them both and they both stick, then you are qualified to capacity.

But, on the other hand, if you have some alternates there that same year, then those alternates can be considered and you might be overstrength.

Mr. BURNS. Will the chairman yield?

Mr. BROOKS. What I am driving at is this: If there are years when a man does not have an appointment to make to the Academy, then his alternates are not considered because he has no appointment.

Colonel HAMBLEN. You mean alternates from a previous year? Mr. BROOKS. Yes.

Colonel HAMBLEN. You are suggesting, then, sir, that last year's alternates be reconsidered this year?

Mr. BROOKS. I am asking you why they are not, since there is nothing in the law that prohibits it.

Mr. BURNS. Mr. Chairman, if you will yield, I think that actually these alternates would have a chance if this new and suggested law were adopted, wouldn't they, in the year when his principal was appointed?

Colonel HAMBLEN. Absolutely, in the year in which his principal were introduced he would have a much greater chance of having those alternates considered.

Mr. BURNS. If you had 4 or 5 good, A No. 1 people on there, he would be liable to wind up with more.

Colonel HAMBLEN. What Mr. Brooks said is absolutely true. When Mr. Brooks had a year when he had three very fine men, under the provisions of this bill now the chances of all those men getting in are greatly increased because we are looking for quality. We don't really look at where he comes from. As long as the Congressman says "He is our man," we review him thoroughly. If something happened one year that we get a very outstanding group from one State. more would go in because of the quality.

Mr. BROOKS. I have nothing further to say on that point.
Are there any further questions?

Mr. WINSTEAD. Mr. Chairman, I agree with Mr. Bray on the practice that you have. But if you do produce 20 more, that means it will be about 20 more r. i. f.'d out if they reduce themselves. That is not your responsibility, but that is ours. The thing I am confused on, if we keep increasing to get more officers, you might have more