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Mr. WINSTEAD. Mr. Chairman. If I understand this correctly— I am sorry, I didn't get here for Mr. Marshall's testimony. e always find him very sound on all measures. If I understand this correctly, this applies only to the man who may have served in the merchant marine or been in the Active Reserve components, that were called up or either enlisted or served during the Korean war, and no one else; is that right? Just that one particular group, that this bill covers? This . covers only those that served in the Korean war or in the service during that war who had not had prior service in World War I and World War II? Mr. DUCANDER. That is right. Colonel ZEHALA. Yes, sir. Mr. WINSTEAD. Now, if I recall correctly, we had a great amount of clamor here to exempt those fellows from the draft, who served in the merchant marine. And I opposed that for the reason that I had a nephew who talked to me before he went into the merchant marine. He had a wife and two children. He had a small business. He went into the merchant marine because he could draw more pay. And because you could come home every 6 months or so and he could look after his business. But there was some confusion the best I can remember, and it has been some time, that those fellows who served in the merchant marine were still subject to being called, some of them. Mr. BRooks. These are Reserves. Mr. WINSTEAD. That is right. Mr. BRooks. These are reservists and not drafted people. They could have been called at any time. Colonel ZEHALA. That is right. Mr. WINSTEAD. One point: Are we opening the door here where we will have another dozen groups under several different circumstances? If so, let's cover them all at one time. I know in the past we have legislated on piecemeal legislation and nobody seemed to know what we were doing in opening the door, and later on here would come another half dozen groups with just as much credit as this group. Do you know of any other group of people? I think these we are dealing with are entitled to what we are trying to give them. But do you know at this time any other group who would have similar claim if we pass this legislation? Colonel ZEHALA. Not specifically in reference to war service, but there are other groups i. could be affected by other legislation which is being proposed but which has not yet been submitted. Mr. WINSTEAD. I know. But what are those? I would like to know before we start how far we are going and what all we will get involved in. Colonel ZEHALA. Well, that has reference to National Guard United States service, AUS service, Army nurse service—those are the three. Mr. DUCANDER. Naval aviation cadets. Colonel ZEHALA. Naval aviation cadets. Mr. BRAY. W. A. A. C. Service, I believe. Colonel ZEHALA. Those are the general features of the other proposed legislation.
* Mr. BRooks. Will the gentleman yield? But none of those other cases apply to contract veterans; I mean veterans that served in a war, do o, Colonel ZEHALA. They could, sir. Mr. DUCANDER. Mr. Chairman, take the case of aviation cadets. At the present time, a person who was a naval aviation cadet can't compute the time he was a naval aviation cadet toward a total retirement under Public Law 810. That is one of the cases. Mr. BRooks. Of course, a man can take the time he served in West Point or Annapolis and compute that on his retirement benefits. Mr. DUCANDER. The Department has an omnibus bill which they are preparing which would group all those people together and they are intending to submit it to Congress, so my information goes. Mr. BRAY. Mr. Chairman, I believe I can say something that will clarify this situation. I think there are being very many extraneous matters that are being brought in here that have nothing to do with this legislation. First, when was Public Law 810 passed—what year? Mr. DUCANDER. 1948. Mr. BRAY. And at the time that bill was passed, there was already many who at that time would be eligible immediately for retirement. Mr. DUCANDER. Yes, sir. Mr. BRAY. That bill was passed in 1948. Correct me if I am wrong, Colonel. It allowed anyone with 20 years satisfactory Federal service who had participated, been a member of the Armed Forces during World War I or II, to retire. That was one of the titles to it. Mr. DUCANDER. Mr. BRAY. There was another title that allowed anyone with 20 years of active Federal service to retire immediately. Mr. DUCANDER. Yes. Mr. Bay. The other retirement took place at 60. That is correct, isn't it? Colonel ZEHALA. That is correct; yes, sir. Mr. BRAY. Now, all this bill proposes to do—correct me if I am wrong—is to give that same privilege to members of the Korean war, who were in the active Armed Forces during the Korean war, giving them the same right as those in World War II. Colonel ZEHALA. That is right. Mr. BRAY. For instance, I don’t believe the idea of merchant marine or any of that really enters into this at all. For instance, let's assume a person graduated from ROTC and was commissioned 1 day prior to the effective date, of the date that you name here in this bill–August 15. Let's say he was commissioned on August 14, 1945, in ROTC, but for physical reasons he was not accepted. Let's say an operation was necessary. Then, he did have that operation, and then did become a member of the Armed Forces, and then did participate as an active participant in the Korean war. He would be entitled to this retirement. Colonel ZEHALA. With this amendment, yes, sir. Mr. DUCANDER. Under this bill. Mr. BRAY. That is what I mean. Colonel ZEHALA. Yes, sir. Mr. BRAY. All it does: It extends to 3 wars instead of 2 the right of participation?
Colonel ZEHALA. Yes, sir.
Mr. BRAY. And the idea of whether he was in the merchant marine or whether he was a civilian flier or teacher or whatever, it makes no difference. It just merely adds one additional war to the two already accepted in this bill.
Colonel ZEHALA, That is right, sir.
Mr. Brooks. Colonel, one more thing, too. A man is subject to orders of the Department of which he is a member as a reservist, isn't that true?
Colonel ZEHALA. That is right, sir.
Mr. BROOKS. Whenever the services wished to call this man in World War II, they were free to do it?
Colonel ZEHALA. Yes, sir; that is right.
Mr. Brooks. Now, if he were an FBI man and they didn't call him, it was the action of the Department in failing to call him.
Mr. DUCANDER. That is right.
Mr. BROOKS. Now, if he was a seaman in the merchant marine and the Department wished to have him, they could have called him at any time. The fact that he wasn't called to active duty in World War II was the action of the Department, isn't that true?
Colonel ZEHALA. Well, on the other hand, though, Mr. Chairman
Mr. BROOKS. Is that right or not? Isn't it true?
Colonel ZEHALA. It could be true, sir, but it appears extremely doubtful because the Department called all of its people.
Now, after the people got the call, then the agency may have requested that the individual be deferred due to his importance to the national welfare.
Mr. Brooks. Now, were these men called or were they deferred? Colonel ZEHALA. They would have been deferred, sir.
Mr. BROOKS. All of them. So, they were called by the Department but were deferred?
Colonel ZEHALA. Right, sir.
Mr. Brooks. Therefore, the FBI man was called and then deferred and they rule he is not eligible to benefits under 810, is that right?
Colonel ZEHALA. Under the present law, he wouldn't be eligible, right, sir.
Mr. BROOKS. And the seaman who was called by the Department and then deferred, in the merchant marine, would not be eligible under 810?
Colonel ZEHALA. Not at the present time, sir.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Chairman, I would like to pursue this merchant marine situation a little further.
Now, we had-you were in World War II, were you not, Colonel? Colonel ZEHALA. Yes, sir; I was, sir.
Mr. Van ZANDT. During the course of World War II, what was it, the Army Transport Service? What was the official name of it that took over these Liberty jobs and so forth, and transports?
Colonel ZEHALA. I am not sure, sir, what the official name was.
There were Naval Reserve officers on board those Army transports and they were called to active duty, but they were deferred because they felt that the Army Transport Service had to have, or needed their services.
Now, is it not true that they were paid the scale of the merchant marine in their civilian jobs?
Colonel ZEHALA. I am sorry, sir; I am not acquainted with their рау. .
Mr. Van ZANDT. They were.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. And they were given a bonus, because we discussed it on this committee.
You will have to pardon me, but I see red every time I mention these people because of my experiences in the Pacific with them.
Now, what we are doing is, we are going to give these officers credit on retirement for the period that they served during World War II as merchant marine officers, when they received pay much higher than those in the military, plus a bonus for every hour that they were in a war zone. That is my contention.
Mr. PRICE. We are not going to give them credit for active duty during that war.
Mr. Van Zandt. No; you are going to give them credit for retirement for satisfactory years.
Mr. BROOKS. Colonel, they are already entitled to credit on retirement, aren't they? As long as they remain in the Reserve, they were entitled to credit for retirement; isn't that true?
Colonel ZEHALA. They are already now—if during that time they held a Reserve commission, that
Mr. BROOKS. So we are not giving them credit for the time they spent in the Reserve component for retirement purposes.
Mr. Van ZANDT. Yes, you are, too.
Mr. BROOKS. We are merely giving them the right to retire if they served in Korea.
Colonel ZEHALA. That is correct.
Colonel ZEHALA. The credit is already there if they held a Reserva commission.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Chairman, they can only retire under Public Law 810, either with 20 years of satisfactory service or 30 years of satisfactory service, plus age; isn't that right?
Colonel ZEHALA. The requirement is at least 20 years' satisfactory service.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. That is right.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. All right.
Now, included in the 20 years of service would be not only the time they spent in Korea and the period between World War II and Korea, but the time they were in the Reserves during World War I when they were in the merchant marine.
Colonel ZEHALA. That is right.
Mr. BROOKS. But if they can retire under 20 years, plus the age of 60, they can still count the time they served in World War II while they were in the merchant marine; isn't that true?
Colonel ZEHALA. Yes, sir.
Mr. BROOKS. So we are not giving them any additional credit for retirement in World War II. What we are doing, we are acknowledging the service that they put in in Korea; isn't that substantially it?
Colonel ZEHELA. That is right.
Mr. WINSTEAD. And there would be no differential in the pay for retirement with those years counted if this passed as to what they would get if we did not pass this?
Mr. DUCANDER. They won't be able to retire at all.
Mr. BROOKS. During the time they served on active duty in Korea, they got the pay of an active reservist.
Mr. PRICE. Mr. Chairman, if we had enacted 810 in 1953 we would have included Korea.
Mr. BROOKS. That is correct.
Colonel ZEHALA. To amend title 10, United States Code, to make retired pay for non-Regular service available to certain persons who performed active duty during the Korean conflict.
Mr. DICANDER. Colonel
Mr. DUCANDER. Perhaps we should explain to the committee that the reason for the amendment is to make the bill since Mr. Marshall originally drew the bill, this law has been codified.
Dr. BRAY. I see.
Mr. DUCANDER. So the amendment merely brings it into line with the codification language. There are no substantive changes. It amends the title to conform with the body of the amendment.
Colonel ZEHALA. That is right.
Mr. Bray. On any bill, there are going to be some inequities that are going to come up in the bill. In the Legion and VFW and all, we have extended the same rates for the Korean war. We have been gradually doing that over a period of years. This merely follows the general policy. I have seen people get retirement after World War II