Mr. BROOKS. And the suggested change would apply to all- Mr. BROOKS. Now, what would the suggested version of the bill cost the Defense Department? Colonel HATTOX. I do not think it would make but very little difference. Our estimate now, for instance, annually, would amount to about $29,000 during peacetime. Mr. BROOKS. A total of $1 million, but annually about $29,000. Colonel HATTOX. The greater part of the total of $1 million would be because of the large number that were nonrecoverable in World War II and the Korean war. But during peacetime the number would be much smaller. Mr. BROOKS. Would this cover peace periods too? Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir. It is proposed that this amendment would cover, for instance, an air crash that might happen tomorrow, in which you did not recover remains. Mr. BROOKS. So this would cover not only veterans, but nonveterans too, if they die in service? Colonel HATTOX. Servicemen. Mr. BROOKS. Does the Department favor the suggested version of the bill? Colonel HATTOx. The Department of the Army does; yes, sir. Colonel HATTOX. It just broadens H. R. 4381. Mr. BRAY. Does it not do more than that, Colonel? Do not the suggested amendments there limit it to those who did not die in the theater? They figure if they died in the theater, there are cemeteries there and there are memorials erected to them there. It is going to eliminate the the suggested amendment will eliminate a great part of those, as I understand it. Colonel HATTOX. No, sir; it would not eliminate those that have been memorialized in the overseas theaters. Mr. PRICE. You say it does not eliminate those? Colonel HATTOX. It does not. Mr. BROOKS. You would then have duplications. Colonel HATTOX. It says any member of the Armed Forces. Mr. BROOKS. You would then have duplications. Colonel HATTOx. Yes, sir. You would have them memorialized in overseas theaters and in the private cemeteries or national cemeteries here in the United States. Mr. PRICE. Yes, but that is the point of the bill. The families may want a memorial in the local cemeteries. Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir. Mr. PRICE. That is the point of it? Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir. Mr. BROOKS. And they might want it in private cemeteries? Mr. BROOKS. Now, what type of marker or identification or memorial would this be? Colonel HATTOx. We would propose a regular Government type of stone, using the words "In Memoriam" and the person's name and State. Mr. BROOKS. You would put a grave there--you would put a stone at the head of what otherwise would be symbolic of a grave? 20066-58-No. 88-2 Colonel HATTOx. Yes, sir. We have plots set aside now in national cemeteries for those who care to do so at their own expense, to place a memorial there. Mr. BROOKS. I do not think they ought to be required to pay for something in a national cemetery, for memorializing a man who gave his life to the country. Colonel HATTOX. Well, that is another feature of this bill. Mr. BROOKS. That is being required now? Colonel HATTOx. Under present legislation, we have no authority to furnish a Government headstone. Mr. BROOKS. You set aside a plot and then require the family to pay for the headstone? Colonel HATTOX. They may do so. Mr. BROOKS. For a man who gave his life to this country? Mr. PRICE. I understand the Bureau of the Budget opposes this bill. Colonel HATTOx. That portion of it which would duplicate the memorialization which has already been placed in chapels or walls in the overseas theater. Mr. VAN ZANDT. Colonel, what you mean is this: Let's taken Chateau-Thierry in France. You have a monument there memorializing all those who gave their lives in the Battle of Chateau-Thierry. Colonel HATTOX. That is correct, sir. Mr. VAN ZANDT. Now, along comes a family of one of the men whose remains are somewhere in that area and they would like to have a memorial to place in a national cemetery, or under the provisions of this bill in a local cemetery? Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir. Mr. VAN ZANDT. And they want the Government to pay for that? Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir; that is correct. Mr. VAN ZANDT. So it is a dual memorial. First the one at Chateau-Thierry that memorializes everyone and second this individual which will be placed in the local cemetery. Mr. PRICE. We have to remember, though of course, these are for unrecovered bodies. They are identified the parts have been identified, but they are unrecovered bodies. Mr. BROOKS. Colonel, I want to ask you: Suppose this were a private cemetery at home. Their regulations forbid you to use the standard national cemetery headstones. What about that? Colonel HATTOX. We have several different types of stones, sir. Some of them require flat markers. We furnish those. Some of them will only allow bronze markers. We furnish those also. Mr. PRICE. You have a bronze marker? Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir; we do have it. Mr. PRICE. That will take care of it. Mr. BROOKS. The different types you now have will conform to the regulations in more or less all of the private cemeteries, is that right? Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir. Mr. BROOKS. So that no family will be denied the right to have a memorial or a marker of a symbolic grave of a man whose body was lost, by virtue of local regulations? Colonel HATTox. I know of none, sir. We furnish to all private cemeteries. Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Chairman. Mr. BROOKS. Yes, sir. Mr. VAN ZANDT. Colonel, is it possible under existing law for the Government to make available to the family the cost of the Government marker if the family wishes to buy one themselves? Mr. DUCANDER. No. Colonel HATTOX. No, sir; we have no provision for that. Mr. DUCANDER. There is legislation pending on that, Mr. Van Zandt. Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir. Mr. BROOKS. There is no provision at all to pay for a stone of this sort now? Colonel HATTOX. No, sir. Mr. BROOKS. But if the body had been recovered there would be provision to pay for the stone? Colonel HATTOX. That is correct, sir. Mr. BROOKS. It would seem to me because the man gave his life for his country and the type of death was such that his body was not recovered, why we deny him the right to be properly memorialized in private and national cemeteries, is that not it? Colonel HATTOX. Except for the overseas. Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Mr. Chairman, they are memorialized in all the cemeteries where battles occurred. Mr. PRICE. But they are memorialized thousands of miles from home. Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Well, that is right. But in some instances they are memorialized here in national cemeteries, are they not? Mr. BROOKS. If the family pays for the headstone. Colonel HATTOX. That is correct. Mr. BROOKS. That is what is wrong about it. Now, let me ask you this: Overseas are the men individually memorialized? Are there plots set aside and headstones put in or what? Colonel HATTOX. No, sir. Their names and their States and their units, or unit designation, is placed either in a chapel or on a memorial wall in a cemetery. Mr. BROOKS. That is the individual name? Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir. Mr. BROOKS. Does it give the State? Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir. Mr. BROOKS. And the full name? Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir. Mr. BROOKS. And the serial number? Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir. Mr. BROOKS. And the rank? Colonel HATTOX. And the organization. Mr. BROOKS. And the unit? Colonel HATTOX. And the unit, yes, sir. Mr. BROOKS. And the place he was killed? Colonel HATTOx. No, sir; we cannot always give that. Mr. BROOKS. You give his birth? Colonel HATTOX. If that is available, I believe so, sir. That is under the American Battle Monuments Commission and I personally have not seen anything except pictures of them. Mr. BROOKS. I want to say in the Pacific theater, at Hawaii, you have a lovely cemetery there. Colonel HATTOX. Yes, sir. Mr. BROOKS. It is well located there too. Before you get away there, what is the pleasure-do you have any further questions on this bill? Mr. PRICE. I would like to move its adoption and that the subcommittee report it to the full committee as amended. Mr. BROOKS. You like the amendment? Mr. PRICE. Yes. Mr. BROOKS. Is there any objection to the amendment of the bill? (No response.) Mr. BROOKS. If not, the amendment to H. R. 4381 will be adopted. Now what is the subcommittee's pleasure with reference to the amended bill? Mr. PRICE. I move its approval. Mr. BROOKS. You have heard the motion. Any objection? Any objection to the bill? Mrs. ST. GEORGE. I think it is unnecessary, Mr. Chairman, but I am willing to go along. Mr. BROOKS. I hear no objection, so the bill is favorably reported to the full committee. Thank you very much, Colonel. Colonel HATTOx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. BROOKS. Nobody else? There are no other witnesses on that bill? Mr. DUCANDER. The American Legion. You wanted to make a statement? Mr. BROOKS. Oh, I did not know you came here for that, Mr. Kennedy. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I had submitted a statement before when we thought at one time the bill would come up before the subcommittee, some time ago. It is a very brief statement. We favor the bill. I would like to ask that the statement be incorporated in the record in the interest of saving time at this late hour. Mr. BROOKS. All right. The American Legion is on record in favor of the bill. Mr. KENNEDY. Yes. I invite your attention, Mr. Chairman, to just one thing. In my statement we are asking that this marker be provided not in a national cemetery, but only in a private cemetery. In other words, we appreciate the fact that there will be no body physically present underground, but we have had hundreds of letters, especially from mothers whose boys' bodies have not been recovered, where they go to their own particular family cemetery regardless of their religious affiliation and some neighbor's boy's body was recovered and brought back in due course and buried there. We feel that they are entitled to this slight solace and consideration. Mr. BROOKS. But you would have no objection, Mr. Kennedy, would you, if we included national cemeteries? For instance, if Mr. KENNEDY. No, sir. Mr. BROOKS. Where a private family is called on to pay for a headstone in a national cemetery to symbolize the grave of a deceased man who gave his life for his country-you would not object to that? Mr. KENNEDY. No, sir. We do ask that these stones or markers be provided without cost though to the families, as contained in the bill. Mr. BROOKS. We certainly thank you, sir, and if you have a fuller statement which you wish to place in the record, we would be glad to have it. Mr. KENNEDY. Well, Mr. Ducander already has the statement, Mr. Chairman. Mr. BROOKS. There is no objection to the statement coming in the record before the vote on the bill. Mr. KENNEDY. All right. (Statement of Mr. Kennedy is as follows:) STATEMENT OF MILES D. KENNEDY, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE COMMISSION, THE AMERICAN LEGION Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Miles D. Kennedy; I am the director of the national legislative commission of the American Legion. Our office is at 1608 K Street NW, Washington, D. C. At the outset, Mr. Chairman, I wish to thank you for permitting me to submit this statement before the committee in support of H. R. 4381, a bill to authorize the Secretary of the Army to furnish appropriate Government headstones or memorial markers for erection in private or public cemeteries (other than in national cemeteries) to commemorate certain deceased members of the Armed Forces, whose remains have not been recovered, or have been buried at sea. Under the provisions of current statutes the Federal Government is authorized to and does provide Government headstones or markers for graves of members of the Armed Forces dying in the service or after honorable discharge therefrom. In addition, the Government is also authorized to and does bring home the bodies of servicemen who died overseas, for burial within the United States, and in this connection necessarily does incur and quite properly so the expense of transportation of the remains; the cost of the casket; the cost of the box; the transportation and subsistence expense involved in furnishing an escort to the place designated by the next of kin for burial; a flag and certain other necessary and incidental expenses. All of these expenses are legally incurred when a body is brought home for burial. However, where a serviceman is killed in action overseas and his body is not recovered none of the above-mentioned expenses are incurred. Enclosed is a copy of Resolution No. 364 adopted at the 1957 national convention of the American Legion urging the Federal Government to provide Government headstones or memorial grave markers for those missing in action and whose bodies were never recovered, and where burial is to be in a cemetery chosen by the next of kin, but not in a Government national cemetery. We well appreciate that the immediate family and next of kin of the deceased serviceman whose body was never recovered cannot have the full solace that goes with the knowledge the decedent's body is actually buried in a definite place, nevertheless we respectfully submit that the families of those missing in action and whose bodies were never recovered are morally and ethically entitled to what little peace of mind and comfort they can get from having a headstone or duly authorized marker erected in memory of their loved one in a cemetery of their choice. Representatives of the American Legion have received hundreds of requests for such headstones or markers and our organization has been trying for several years to have legislation of the type contained in H. R. 4381 enacted. We submit that such requests are fair and reasonable, especially when consideration is given to the reasonably small expense that will be involved, as compared to those instances where a body is recovered and returned to the family for burial. This statement is made with all due reverence and respect to those in the latter category. Wherefore, in view of the foregoing the American Legion respectfully requests the House Armed Services Committee to promptly approve H. R. 4381 or any other bill that will grant the same or similar relief. |