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to pay the Army, for instance, for the use of its missiles in launching your space vehicles? . Mr. Johnson. That will be appropriate in certain instances; yes, sir—where ARPA purchases a missile that would not ordinarily be used for testing in that missile program. Mr. HARDY. So the Army, Navy, and Air Force, in their missile programs, are going to be conducting their experimentation completely separate from that which ARPA does? Mr. JoHNSON. Yes; that is right, sir. Mr. HARDY. So that unless ARPA requests one of the services to provide missiles for your specific uses not related to the service's uses, then ARPA will not reimburse the services? Mr. Johnson. That is right, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Let me get this straight for the record, Mr. Director. All of this $50 million is for facilities—construction? Mr. Johnson. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. Now, in view of the fact, as you said, you are not going to build laboratories, what are you going to build out of the $50 million? You are not going to construct any new laboratories. You are going to utilize those in existence today. And here is an authorization for construction, acquiring land, and so forth, in the total amount of $50 million. Mr. Johnson. They will be primarily instrumentation for tracking—telemetering stations for tracking and finding out and knowing where your satellites are. These .# be required at many places around the world. The CHAIRMAN. Will you build some facilities for that? Mr. JoHNSON. Yes; there will be extensive facilities required. For example, in this secret program that I have referred to, there will have to be a very large installation of computers where all the data is fed into a central point, in memory devices, and the manning of this, itself, will be substantial. This will be a big facility, 100,000 or 200,000 square feet. The CHAIRMAN. All right. Can you tell the committee approximately how many acres you propose to acquire, that will be necessary to develop this outer space information that you are going to receive by the tracking? Mr. Johnson. Well, the amount of land, I suspect, may run several thousand acres total, but in small increments, at scattered locations. The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. Director, for the record, will you please give the committee your background: You are in charge of the Advanced Research Projects Agency, which was set up in February. Can you briefly give us some of your background : "You are from New York, aren't you? Mr. Johnson. I am from Stamford, Conn., sir. My office was in New York, sir. The CHAIRMAN. All right. Now what is your technical background in this field? Mr. Johnson. Well, I have spent most of my business life with the General Electric Co., I resigned and have no intention of returning to the General Electric Co. I will be 53 years old this year. I joined the General Electric Co. in 1930.

I have gone through all the musical chairs; was an officer of the company from 1947, through the time I resigned. Executive vice president for 5 or 6 of those years. During that period I had under my responsibility all of the electronic activities of the company. Other technical units included the X-ray division. My background also includes extensive activities in consumer goods. But, basically, general management has been by principal activity. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, very much. Now, members of the committee, of course, I don't think you can break this down. But I do think, when we authorize a lump-sum appropriation, some report should be required—to submit a report to the Congress showing as much as possible in public information how the money is expended. So I suggest, Mr. Kelleher, for the benefit of the committee, that a line along that line be incorporated in the bill. Mr. KELLEHER. Very well, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. I want to thank you, Mr. Director. Mr. BATEs. Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Bates. Mr. BATEs. Mr. Director, where do you stop and where would the new Director of Research and Engineering begin, that will be in the new Department of Defense reorganization? Mr. JoHNsoN. Our relationship has been reduced to a working document. We coordinate all of our activities with the present Director and his staff. In the concept, as I understand it, beginning with the proper action of Congress on the new bill, the Director of Research and Engineering will supervise all research, and in that respect would supervise our programs. I believe, however, it is the intention of the Secretary of Defense to continue this agency in being, to work on special projects of the nature that have already been established, and perhaps additional ones, where there is a high priority of effort required, and where it is not logical at this time to assign them to a specific agency; that is, military agency, although it is his intention—and it is certainly mine— that once work goes out of the research area, the advanced research area, and gets into development, it should be promptly assigned to one of the military agencies. Therefore, I would presume that projects will come and go in the shop as they move along into the breadboard or development area. We have a different and peculiar situation with regard to space. Because of the obvious interest of all three military services in the space program, it is not possible, I think, to as promptly assign them Out. However, this very secret project that we have been discussing this morning is compeltely, the responsibility of the Air Force. It has been assigned to the Air Force to execute under the broad policy programing of the Advanced Research Projects Agency. It would be our intention, as in this case, to operate, and we are operating in the same way in regard to other military space programs. But this coordinating function will continue, I believe, to be necesSary in the space program indefinitely.

Mr. BATEs. Now, will you conduct exploratory or advanced planning research on miiltary weapons on your own, or will you be requested to do so by the Secretary of Defense, or will it be a combination of both?

Mr. Johnson. We are, under our charter, requested to submit to the Secretary of Defense areas where we believe advanced research should properly be undertaken. We are not authorized to undertake that research without his specific authorization or request.

Mr. BATES. Thank you, Mr. Director.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Director. .

Now, I want to compliment you on one thing. You said you could not visualize you will require more than 20 personnel to run your establishment.

I hope you will be able to come back here next year and tell the committee that you have operated with 20. [Laughter.]

I know the pressure that is going to be on you. I hope in the Department of Defense there will be one man that will hold down his personnel to what he first intended to do his work with. [Laughter.]

Thank you very much, Mr. Director.
Mr. Johnson. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. I think the committee would be warranted in authorizing this $50 million, and with an amendment that the Secretary make a report to Congress how he spends this $50 million, if he can do so within the bounds of security when he makes his report.

Thank you, Mr. Director. It is a pleasure.
Mr. Johnson. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, title 4, with the amendment, is agreed to.

Now, members of the committee, I ask you now to turn back to the Army portion of the bill.

Mr. RELLEHER. Page 3, Mr. Chairman, Fort Huachuca.
The CHAIRMAN. The first one is Fort Huachuca, Ariz.

I received some communications from Senator Hayden, and he thinks the bill should be amended to authorize some construction in the amount of $9,098,000

Mr. KILDAY. Senator Hayden.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Hayden. I want to develop the information.

Who is here from the Army?

Mr. KELLEHER. General Thames is here, Mr. Chairman, and General Barney.

The CHAIRMAN. Where is it in the bill?
Mr. KELLEHER. Page 3, line 2, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. All right.
Mr. KELLEHER. It would be an addition of $512 million.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Now, we authorized $3,598,000. We have a letter from Senator Hayden, chairman of the Appropriations Committee. Suppose you read what he thinks should be included

Mr. KELLEHER. Mr. Chairman, I have a brief on the mission of Huachuca that I believe is even more informative than that.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose you read that, Mr. Kelleher.
Mr. KELLEHER. Yes, sir.

The mission of the AEPG, Fort Huachuca, is to develop operational doctrine, procedures, and techniques for communication systems and equipment, conduct user and engineering tests for the Army's electronic warfare and battlefield surveillance techniques and equipment, and combat operations research in communications and Signal Corps aviation activities. The purpose of the AEPG technical building is to consolidate and house, in a central building, the widely scattered technical departments currently occupying inadequate and improvised facilities constructed about 1900 and temporary wood frame structures constructed in 1942. Consolidation of these activities in a new modern and functionally designed structure is necessary to effect the efficient accomplishment of the technical mission. The first increment of this facility, 168,000 square feet of a total 407,000 square feet requirement, was authorized by Public Law 968, 84th Congress, and funds in the amount of $4,068,000 were appropriated under Public Law 814, 84th Congress. Construction of this increment, a 2-story and basement steel frame and concrete wall structure, was initiated in May 1957 and is scheduled for completion in September 1958 at an estimated cost of $3,838,000. he final increment, 239,000 square feet, was proposed for inclusion in the fiscal year 1958 program but due to the limited MCA budget and overriding priority requirements in other areas it was deferred by the Department of the Army. One-half of the final increment was proposed for inclusion in the fiscal year 1959 program, but again due to MCA ho limitations and its relative order of priority it was necessarily deferred. Completion of the final increment estimated at $5,500,000 at the earliest possible date will provide maximum economy, maximum efficiency, effective control, and adequate coordination required to be maintained to accomplish the assigned technical mission based on the following: (a) More selective recruiting of civilian professional personnel because of improved working conditions. (b) Consolidation of expensive test gear, instruments, and other equipment. (e) Major reduction in security guard. l (d) Conservation of travel time by employees within the instalation. The CHAIRMAN. Now, General, what have you to say with reference to increasing this item : General BARNEY. I am General Barney, the Director of Installations for the Deputy Chief of Staff, Logistics, for the Army, sir. We recognize the benefit the completion of this facility would produce. We don't question that it is very desirable to complete it, and at the earliest possible moment. The only reason we haven't put it into our programs is a sheer matter of priority, because we felt other items were more urgent, sir. . The Department would be completely willing to complete this facility if the money and the increased ceilings could be made available. . The CHAIRMAN. Then the facts warrant this being included and it is merely a question of priority when you get the money?

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General BARNEY. Yes, sir, it is entirely a matter of priority.

The CHAIRMAN. Then if Congress makes the money available then it would be the proper thing to complete it at the earliest possible date and to go right forward with it!

General BARNEY. As far as the Department of the Army is concerned, Mr. Chairman, you are correct. We, of course, would have to get Department of Defense and Bureau of Budget approval.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, I understand that.

Mr. KELLEHER. $572 million would be added, for a new figure of $9,098,000.

The CHAIRMAN. $9 million what?
Mr. KELLEHER. $9,098,000.

The CHAIRMAN. $9,096,000 will complete the whole project; is that correct, General ?

General BARNEY. That is correct, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And from a military standpoint, if you had the money, you would go ahead with it right now, is that correct?

General BARNEY. That is correct, sir, if we had the money; in addition to moneys we hope we are going to be successful in obtaining an increase in the Department's current obligation and expenditure ceilings.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand that. If you had the money in addition to these other items, you would go right forward with it?

General BARNEY. Yes, sir. I might qualify that a little further, that we would have to complete the design on it.

Mr. GAVIN. You would have to complete what?
General BARNEY. The design, the final design.

The CHAIRMAN. I think, members of the committee, that the facts and circumstances warrant increasing it. Without objection, we in.crease this item to $9,098,000.

Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, could I raise a question about that?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. HARDY. Just from one standpoint.

I am impressed by what appears to be the need of it. But if there is any possibility of our going back and reconsidering this $50 million or the $25 million juggling authority, then I would be opposed to it. Because here would be $5 million that the Secretary of Defense would cut off right quick.

The CHAIRMAN. I hope the committee will stand firm to eliminate the $25 million.

Mr. Hardy. I think you understand my skepticism about adding this kind of thing.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right.

Mr. HARDY. Because I have a pretty good idea, even if we add it, it will be stopped by either the Secretary of Defense, the White House, or Bureau of the Budget, so it will be stopped anyway.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right. It won't come out of the $25 million, because I don't think the committee will give the blanket authority of $25 million.

Thank you very much.

The next one is a very important item, to transfer San Jacinto Depot to Point-Aux-Pins in

Mr. KELLEHER. Alabama.

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