ing effort which must be directed to more immediate development of weapons systems.

The Advanced Research Projects Agency will work closely-in fact, already is with other elements of the Federal Government that are concerned with science and its application to national security.

We are working with other elements of the Department of Defense, with the National Academy of Sciences, the National Science Foundation, the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, and, under the President's plan, which will become the National Aeronautics and Space Agency.

While our present plans do not contemplate construction of Advanced Research Projects Agency laboratories, we do foresee the need for special-purpose facilities to prove out radical new concepts.

In fact, approximately one-half of the authorization being requested is for a single-or roughly $25 million-classified project of this type of the highest priority.

The balance is a contingency estimate for which I can only outline the nature of the problems and give illustrative examples of the probable construction required to facilitate their solution.

For security reasons, I would like to discuss these items off the record at your pleasure.

In the few weeks that I have been on the job, I have been impressed, as always, with the ability of our country to respond to great challenge. We are on a new frontier, the frontier of space. Our combined resources of science and technology, production know-how, and an interested public, will make it possible to conquer this frontier for the benefit of mankind and our national security.

I would like to go off the record to discuss the specific

Thes CHAIRMAN. You know this is an open session now, Mr. Director. If you want to go in executive session, why, we will have to go in executive session. But you must be guarded in your remarks even if they are off the record.

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; an executive session discussion will be appropriate.

The CHAIRMAN. You stay on the record now, because we have too many other witnesses here and the hall is not large enough to accommodate the large audience we have this morning.

I am somewhat disturbed as to whether or not any work is going on in the Department, in view of the large numbers here. But nevertheless, we invited them here this morning. Let's stay on the record as much as you can, in the interests of accommodating all the audience that have seats.

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Come down here, Mrs. St. George.

Now go right ahead, Mr. Director.

Now, you just referred to the fact that $25 million of the $50 million is to be used for a very high classified project.

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Then devote the balance of your statement to how the other $25 million will be spent. How will you spend the remainder of your $25 million?

Mr. JOHNSON. We propose to establish certain facilities for a satellite tracking fence, as one instance. We do not now, at this time,

have a specific amount in mind. But this would be part of the $25 million. Actually, it will be necessary promptly to have in this country an ability to track all satellites passing over the United States, whether passive or active, or whether put in orbit by a foreign country or by ourselves.

This will require tracking facilities.

We will also require some tracking facilities for other purposes, such as the lunar probes.

Mr. KITCHIN. Such as what?

Mr. KELLEHER. Lunar probes.

Mr. JOHNSON. The lunar probes.

For example, it is quite probable to track our lunar probes we will need an additional facility in Singapore. There may be one other facility required somewhere else offshore.

Ballistic missile defense will require improved radar and optical equipment to investigate such things as nuclear effects of high-level ionization.

We undoubtedly are going to need additional satellite launching facilities for orbits not now possible from existing facilities. Orbits are now limited to those which we can acquire off of Canaveral. We may need to have a facility farther south, to permit equatorial orbiting, which may be required in our satellite program.

There will also be modifications of facilities that we now can't anticipate that would be required to conduct specific ARPA projects not yet determined.

These are the general categories that would be included in the $25 million.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Director.

Now, I gathered from your testimony that you do not visualize or contemplate a large program of constructing additional laboratories. You are going to utilize those that are being utilized in different degrees today throughout the country; is that correct?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is correct, sir.

I am impressed with the laboratories that exist within the military services and within certain universities under contract to the military services.

The CHAIRMAN. Will this $50 million be mainly used for developing different weapons systems, or will it be used in an expenditure for satellite and orbit-whatever you call them?

Mr. JOHNSON. I would estimate that 90 percent of the total of $50 million will be directly associated with the space program, most of it having military connotation, requiring new telemetering, and new ground equipment to keep track of what we are doing and where we are going in space.

The CHAIRMAN. Ninety percent of it will be

Mr. Kelleher, let me ask you this question. Is there anything in this bill that requires a report to Congress with reference to the expenditure of this $50 million?

Mr. KELLEHER. There is not at this time, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. Director, what you have to say with reference to a proviso written in here that the Secretary of the Department of Defense should make an annual report showing in broad language, as much as he possibly can, how this $50 million has been spent?

Mr. JOHNSON. I think that would be appropriate, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, members of the committee, as you know, we established this agency in February. And under our bill and under the President's proposal, your organization known as Advanced Research Projects Agency was ultimately to fall under the Director of Research and Engineering; is that correct?

Mr. JOHNSON. As I understand the bill; yes, sir. The supervision of all research will be under the Director of Research and Engineering.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, you have under the law today the authority to make contracts?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you entered into many contracts? Have you embarked upon that field?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; we have, but the contracts have all been let through one of the three military services.

The CHAIRMAN. I see. Then you are utilizing the military establishments to make your contracts, instead of making contracts in the name of the Advanced Research Projects Agency?

Mr. JOHNSON. The contracts are made on our behalf, on behalf of ARPA. We do not have a contracting procedure in our office. The CHAIRMAN. I see.

Mr. JOHNSON. And don't intend to.

The CHAIRMAN. I see.

Members of the committee, any questions?

Mrs. St. George, any questions?

Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One question.

As I understand it, Mr. Director, 90 percent of this $50 million has already been earmarked for tracking and various other satellite work, and also moon work, et cetera; is that correct?

Mr. JOHNSON. Fifty percent has very definitely been earmarked, and that 50 percent is in the space area.

The other 40 percent that I estimate will go into space has not, I think, hardened, in terms of specific projects.

Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Well, the object of my question is, if 90 percent or thereabouts has been earmarked, it would seem to me that the $50 million might very well prove inadequate.

Mr. JOHNSON. That is correct.

Mr. ST. GEORGE. Am I correct?

Mr. JOHNSON. It is too early at this point to determine whether our total request for funds for ARPA are adequate for the job ahead. We just don't know.

Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Well, in other words, the whole program is bound to be very indefinite, because we are making such strides, scientifically every day, I presume-at least I hope that, therefore, it is very possible that this $50 million would be inadequate; is that correct? Mr. JOHNSON. That is right, Madam.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mrs. St. George.
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Brooks, any questions?
Mr. BROOKS. No questions.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Gavin?
Mr. GAVIN. No questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kilday.

Mr. KILDAY. Mr. Johnsonn, of course, this $50 million is only for construction. What amount have you asked for for your operations, other than construction?

Mr. JOHNSON. The total request is $520 million.

Mr. KILDAY. $520 million?

Mr. JOHNSON. For fiscal year 1959.

Mr. KILDAY. Anywhere from $25 million to $45 million, depending on whether it is 50 or 90 percent, will be in space exploration! Mr. JOHNSON. That is right, Mr. Congressman. Of the total of $520 million, roughly $350 million is now earmarked for space programs.

Mr. KILDAY. If and when the new space agency, which legislation has passed the House and is pending in the Senate, is passed, is it proposed that any portion of this be transferred to the new agency?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir, Mr. Congressman. We are proposing some $70 million to be transferred to the civilian space agency, because we have earmarked that as being science and nonmilitary connected in the short-term sense.

Mr. KILDAY. So the military part will be $450 million?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right, sir.

Mr. KILDAY. And then plus whatever goes to the civilian space agency?

(Mr. Johnson nods.)

Mr. KILDAY. Do you have any idea what that would run?

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, the amount that would be transferred to the Civilian Space Agency

Mr. KILDAY. No.

Mr. JOHNSON. Would be $70 million.

Mr. KILDAY. Yes; I understand that. You may not be the one that I should ask the question of. Do you have any idea what is proposed! Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, for the new agency?

Mr. KILDAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON. We are working very closely with NACA. We have encouraged that agency to request a substantial amount of money because as we have seen the program develop in the last 60 days, our request is completely inadequate to cover the civilian or scientific aspects. The $70 million is completely inadequate for the job to be done. I would hope that this new agency would request and receive some $300 million.

Mr. KILDAY. So the thing for us to realize is that on this question of space, we are getting into really big money, aren't we?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir. If you add the boosters and the other work that would not be directly associated with these budgets, but are necessary for a space program, it would seem to me that if the civilian agency were allocated the $300 million in addition to the $300 million

we would be spending, I think you could add another $400 million of other effort, and that is a $1 billion program for space.

Mr. KILDAY. At the outset ?

Mr. JOHNSON. At the outset.

Mr. KILDAY. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Any questions from any other members of the Committee?

If not

Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, may I ask one other question in connection with this funding problem, or the funding program?

Is it not true, Mr. Director, that there will continue to be substantial funds available to the military services that will at least augment the funds available to ARPA?

Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, definitely.

Mr. HARDY. For operational purposes?

Mr. JOHNSON. Definitely, Mr. Congressman.

Mr. HARDY. Do you have any estimate now-I believe you said a while ago that $150 million is your current request for funds that will be of a military nature; is that right?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right, but that includes other than space pro

grams.

Mr. HARDY. That is in your total advanced research?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right.

Mr. HARDY. But it is of a military nature?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right, sir.

Mr. HARDY. Now, can you tell us how much it is expected the individual services, from their funds, will contribute to similar programs?

Mr. JOHNSON. It is the intention that all space programs funding be through ARPA. My referral to other funds comes from the fact that obviously the whole missile program is the basis for a space pro

gram.

Mr. HARDY. Well, that is what I had in mind. Now, actually, a considerable portion of your space program will depend on military missiles that are currently in the programs of the various services? Mr. JOHNSON. That is right.

Mr. HARDY. Now, then, the extent to which those missiles that are developed and paid for by the military services are utilized in your program, then the military budgets are contributing to your budget; are they not?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right, sir.

Mr. HARDY. That is the thing that I have been trying to understand, whether you have any estimate as to the amount of funds appropriated to the military that will actually find their way in the next fiscal year into your operational program.

Mr. JOHNSON. Whenever a missile is specifically requested for putting a satellite into orbit, and it is not a part of the regular missile test program, it would be charged to ARPA. But when those missile firings are a part of, considered a part of a regular development program of the missile itself, they are not charged.

Mr. HARDY. Then do I understand there will be a reimbursable proposition out of which funds will come out of your $450 million