The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the item is approved.

Read the next one.

Mr. BATES. Mr. Chairman, I want to know if they are going to tear down any of the World War II housing units.

Admiral AILES. As they are being replaced, we are tearing down the old ones. We have an intensive replacement program, replacing

the quonset huts.

The CHAIRMAN. Read the next item.

Mr. KELLEHER. Line 14

Mr. BATES. You are tearing down all the quonset huts?

Admiral AILES. As they are replaced, we are either tearing them down or disposing of them, sir.

Mr. BATES. I see. You still have that rust problem with those? Admiral AILES. Rust?

Mr. BATES. Rust.

Admiral AILES. Yes, sir.

Mr. BATES. Which is a serious maintenance problem.

Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, the only question in my mind on the Guam situation is whether you see, you have 95 percent of your requirement now insofar as your Navy personnel are concerned; is that right?

Admiral AILES. No, that is existing and projected.

Mr. HARDY. That includes what you are asking for here?

Captain SCHUMACHER. Yes, sir.

Admiral AILES. Yes, sir.

Mr. HARDY. Is your complement going to continue at about its present level?

Admiral AILES. If anything, we see increases there. It is the most likely place to increase in the Pacific.

Mr. HARDY. Is the Air Force also increasing its personnel on Guam? Admiral AILES. I could not say what they are doing. But we are finding need for moving some units.

Mr. HARDY. Now, in your total that you have here, does that total also include civilians, when you get to any of your bottom figures? Admiral AILES. The lower figures; yes, sir.

Mr. HARDY. Does that include indigenous personnel that come over from other islands?

Admiral AILES. No, sir.

Mr. HARDY. You are pretty sure of that?

Captain SCHUMACHER. Yes, sir.

Mr. HARDY. That is only United States personnel there?

Admiral AILES. This is United States civilians.

The CHAIRMAN. Read your next one. That is all right. Go ahead, Mr. Kelleher.

Mr. KELLEHER. The next one, Mr. Chairman, is Kaneohe Bay, Marine Corps Air Station, 650 units, approved previously.

Line 16, Naval Ammunition Depot, Oahu, T. H., 114 units, approved.

Naval Station, Pearl Harbor, Oahu, T. H., 650 units, approved. Line 20, Naval Station, Roosevelt Roads, P. R., 676 units, previously approved.

20066-58-No. 8625

And, Mr. Chairman, I believe the Navy wants to insert at this point a new project for 290 units at the Navy Powder Factory, Indian Head, Md.

The CHAIRMAN. Has that been approved?

Mr. KELLEHER. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Why not let them refer it to the subcommittee? Mr. KELLEHER. It will have to be in this bill to be acquired this year. It will have to end up in this bill, under the law today.

Admiral AILES. It is a permissive Wherry acquisition.

Mr. RIVERS. The subcommittee can meet at a moment's notice.
Mr. KELLEHER. Is that only the Wherry?

Admiral AILES. This is the permissive Wherry acquisition.

Mr. KELLEHER. I have language for that.

The CHAIRMAN. This is acquiring Wherry houses?

Admiral AILES. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many Wherry houses are you acquiring?
Mr. KELLEHER. 385, Mr. Chairman.

Admiral AILES. 385 units, sir.

Mr. LANKFORD. This is existing Wherry houses; that is already there.

Mr. HARDY. What he wants to do is acquire these so he can improve them.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. This is a permissive acquisition.

Admiral AILES. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And not a mandatory.

Admiral AILES. Yes, sir.

Mr. KELLEHER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BRAY. We are not putting in any additional houses?
Admiral AILES. No, sir.

Mr. BRAY. You want to take over Wherry?

Admiral AILES. We don't want to add one unit to our existing units.

Mr. KELLEHER. Mr. Chairman, you will recall that we changed the law last year. Whether it be Capehart, Wherry, or any other housing, it has to be a line item in the bill.

The Chairman. This is permissive acquisition?

Admiral AILES. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many Wherry's are there now?

Admiral AILES. 385, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And you propose to acquire them all?

Admiral AILES. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And approximately how much will you spend on each unit? Of course, we don't make the maximum or minimum. Admiral PELTIER. We will submit that to the committee.

Mr. RIVERS. What?

Mr. HARDY. Now, that

The CHAIRMAN. Wait one minute.

What about it? Have you made an investigation as to what is going to be the total repair on these units? Now, if you haven't— don't be in a hurry about this. We have all the time.

Admiral AILES. Mr. Gregg may be able to state.
The CHAIRMAN. We will get to that later on.
Mr. RIVERS. We can go into that.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, section

Admiral AILES. I think Mr. Gregg can answer those questions, sir. Mr. BATES. Mr. Chairman, let's talk about this one a little bit.

The CHAIRMAN. I was going to pass it over and let them talk in the Senate and we will talk later on about it.

Mr. BATES. Let's talk about it right now.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. BATES. Now, this is the first one you acquired having a permissive status; is that correct?

Admiral AILES. No, sir.

Mr. BATES. That is not correct?
Admiral AILES. No, sir.

Mr. BATES. Well, I didn't know the log jam had been broken in the Navy. I didn't know you had acquired any. I thought it was the policy of the Navy not to acquire any which were merely permissive

in nature.

Admiral AILES. We acquired two units, at the naval communication station just outside of Norfolk.

Mr. HARDY. The only reason you did, if the gentleman will yield, was because I bore down on you so hard to try to get you started moving, and you still haven't finished the acquisition of those, and they were your project Nos. 1 and 2.

I do think the way the Navy has handled that thing is one of the most-one of the poorest things the Navy has ever handled, in my opinion.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Bates.

Mr. BATES. Maybe I didn't bear down hard enough, but I guess— we have been talking about Squantum up there for a long time. The enlisted people living in those units up there have had their rent increased 25 percent.

Admiral AILES. By the activities of the local government adding taxes onto the owners.

Mr. BATES. I don't know what the reason is, Admiral.

Admiral AILES. That was the reason, sir.

Mr. BATES. I think in terms of the enlisted personnel. That is not in my neck of the woods. So my prime interest is in the people there. Mr. RIVERS. Mr. Bates, will you yield there?

Mr. BATES. In fact, all the houses we are building is in the interest of the military personnel.

Admiral AILES. That is right.

Mr. BATES. That is our prime concern.

Admiral AILES. That is our concern, too.

Mr. BATES. So when I find some enlisted men in the lower-enlisted men who are entitled to quarters paying a 25-percent increase in it, I get a little bit concerned. Particularly, we have witnesses up here on a pay bill telling us how we have to increase the pay so we are going to improve the morale in the Armed Forces, and at the same time we have a situation like this exist and nobody gets concerned about it. It doesn't add up to me.

What are we going to do about it?

Admiral AILES. We are still trying to get the local government to take into consideration the contributions to the local community, which

they are responsible to do. Thus far, we have not been able to get that recommendation.

Mr. BATES. As far as the local government is concerned.

The CHAIRMAN. How many units are involved?

Mr. BATES. The fact of the matter is that this Wherry item at Squantum was approved in 1949, first. Now, they didn't accept it and certify it to public housing until 1954. And that is when construction was started, in 1954. However, it was in 1950 that the Chief of Naval Operations decided to close Squantum. They decided to close it in 1950.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it closed now?

Mr. BATES. Yes, it was closed.

Admiral AILES. Yes, sir.

Mr. BATES. And these were certified to be built in 1954. Construction was started in August of 1954. It was completed in 1955. That was after the base had already been closed.

The CHAIRMAN. Wait 1 minute, Mr. Bates.

You mean to tell this committee that the Department closed Squantum Naval Base in 1950 and then the Navy Department certified to build Wherry houses after the base was closed?

Mr. BATES. No, sir, the decision to close it was in 1950.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. BATES. The airfield was actually closed in 1953.

The CHAIRMAN. When did they certify

Mr. BATES. In 1954 it was certified, and construction started that year, 1954, a year after it closed.

The CHAIRMAN. Then after 1 year, after the base had been closed, they begin to build Wherry houses?

Mr. BATES. So I think

The CHAIRMAN. Wait 1 minute.

Is that correct?

Mr. BATES. That is right.

Mr. RIVERS. You mean they built Wherry houses at a vacant base? Mr. BATES. I think they got a story to add to it. They said it wasn't only

The CHAIRMAN. Let's clear that up. We want some information on

that.

Mr. BATES. I want to get at least my part of it on the record.

It is true that after they decided to close the base they cut down the number to 150 from-what was it?

Mr. GREGG. The neighborhood of 450.

Mr. BATES. They cut it down. The base had been closed.

The reason given was that the people living around there in the general area could use it. It has been occupied 100 percent. I take no issue with that.

But I do have great concern when the rents are increased 25 percent. Now, whether or not the local authorities should have done it, I don't know. If the Navy acquires it, it doesn't make any difference, because we are not going to pay any taxes to the local government. From their point of view, I don't see how they are going to make out, anyway, if the Navy does something. But my only concern is when I find a bunch of enlisted men have their rent increased 25 percent.

Mr. RIVERS. Mr. Bates-Will Mr. Bates yield right there? The subcommittee Is this the same project Mr. Wigglesworth is interested in?

Mr. BATES. Yes.

Mr. KELLEHER. Yes.

Mr. RIVERS. The subcommittee tried to take up this project on at least one occasion.

Mr. BATES. Yes, sir.

Mr. RIVERS. There was some difficulty in getting the interested parties together.

Mr. KELLEHER. That is right.

Mr. RIVERS. I think the reason the houses were built-it wasn't for the Squantum base. It was for the personnel in the Boston area. Admiral AILES. That is right.

Mr. RIVERS. That was the reason.

You don't want the record to show that we build houses on a vacant base.

Mr. BATES. The record is this:

The original project provided housing for naval personnel at all naval activities in the area, including the Naval Air Station, Squantum. After it was decided to close the air station, the project was reduced from 302 units to 150 units, and a site for the 150 units was selected on the old air station property.

Now, is that correct?

Admiral AILES. That is correct.

Mr. BATES. And it is Government property there?
Admiral AILES. Yes, sir.

Mr. RIVERS. Mr. Bates, if you will yield right there?

In defense of the Navy, while I was quite critical of Yards and Docks, of the slow procedure they followed, as I said at the opening of this hearing, the Yards and Docks have a new look now, in Admiral Peltier, and I think they are moving commendably.

Mr. BATES. That is right. That is the reason I am bringing it up now, because I expect to get some action.

The CHAIRMAN. Let's get back on the track.

Mr. BATES. Let's stay on the track.

Now, this is the old air station there. And under a court decision, the State of Massachusetts and the local locality are permitted to charge taxes; is that correct, Captain?

Captain SCHUMACHER. That is correct.

Admiral AILES. That is correct.

Mr. BATES. Now, has that happened anywhere else in the United States?

Admiral AILES. Yes, sir.

Mr. GREGG. It is being contested right now in California, generally. Mr. BATES. It is being contested?

Mr. GREGG. Yes, our tax determination, deduction determinations. Mr. BATES. Now, in the event that all the other courts agree with the decision in this particular case or in the case generally in the Massachusetts courts, what would be the policy of the Navy then? Are we going to permit rents to be increased 25 percent? We have an obligation to keep these places occupied.

Mr. GREGG. Yes, sir.

Mr. BATES. So, we are not going to get out of it either way you

turn.