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Admiral PELTIER. It is underway right now.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know where you are going to locate these houses?

Admiral PELTIER. Probably close to the area of our present Wherry project, but it is not firm.

The CHAIRMAN. You haven't determined upon what site you are going to locate them?

Admiral AILES. No, sir.
Admiral PELTIER. No, sir; not definitely, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. You don't know what it is going to cost?

Admiral PELTIER. Our estimate on the preliminary investigation indicates about $85,000 for land.

The CHAIRMAN. $85,000 for land. Yet you don't know exactly where you are going to locate it!

Admiral PELTIER. We have
The CHAIRMAN. How long has this project been pending?

Mr. KELLEHER. This has not been submitted to the committee previously, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. RIVERS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to say this, though: Under the law, whether or not he has the land, he has to come in here and get these advance approvals, under the new provisions of the law.

Admiral AILES. That is right.

Mr. RIVERS. That is why he is in here. It is understandable why you haven't the land. You have to get this first.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I don't follow you altogether. At least he should know what land he wants. If a man is going to advocate anything, he knows specifically what he is going to advocate. He is uncertain as to where he is going to locate them. I think when you do come here, I think you ought to definitely have made up your mind as to where you are going to put your buildings, whether you are going to put it in this place or that place, and have some positiveness about you, and not an uncertainty.

I think we can go ahead, but this is not the way to do things. You ought to be a little more positive.

I suggest that we pass this one over

Admiral Ailes. They have recommended several sites, sir. We haven't narrowed it down to one yet.

The CHAIRMAN. You ought to narrow it down when you come in here.

Admiral AILES. That is what we are coming up here for, to get approval so we can go ahead with it.

Mr. RIVERS. That is not easy. Even Mr. Hardy agrees with me on that. That is not easy.

The CHAIRMAN. Wait 1 minute.
Off the record.
(Statement off the record.)

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the item is approved. [Laugher.]

Now, if you are going to agree with him, you continue to.
Mr. HARDY. I wanted to ask a question.
Mr. Chairman, I think there could be some problems.

Under our present proceedures of pinpointing the specific site they are going to put them on, I think it would be preferable if they could, but I don't think they always may be able to do it.

There are 1 or 2 questions, though, about this thing I would like to inquire about.

The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead, Mr. Hardy.

Mr. HARDY. Does this represent housing for Navy personnel, or have you any civilians involved in this?

Captain SCHUMACHER. This is Navy personnel only, Mr. Hardy.

Mr. HARDY. And you have almost as many who are not entitled to quarters that you are trying to house as you do have that are entitled to quarters, 2,510 against 4,446? 2,000 people, that is, 2,000 of your Navy enlisted personnel have families and are living down there because they need quarters but are not entitled to quarters under the law.

Captain SCHUMACHER. That is correct, sir.

Mr. HARDY. What sort of personnel operation do you have, that has that kind of condition? I haven't seen that anywhere else.

Captain SCHUMACHER. Well, the basic requirement, sir, is 2,510. That is the officers, the top 3 pay grades, plus the fourth pay grade with 7 years, and the remainder are personnel—there are 1,180 civilians involved in that, sir.

Mr. HARDY. Well, now, I just asked you about the civilians. You didn't have any civilians a minute ago.

Captain ScHUMACHER. Not in the net, sir. I misunderstood, sir. There are no civilians counted in that 2,610-no civilians counted in the 2,510, sir.

Mr. HARDY. But in your total, that is in your 4,446, you got how many civilians ?

Captain SCHUMACHER. I have 1,180, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. If there is no amendment—are you through, Mr.
Mr. HARDY. No, sir.
Let me go just a little bit further.
Well, I wish you didn't put those dog gone fool totals down there.
They mislead us.

But all those people are living somewhere now, aren't they?
Captain SCHUMACHER. No, sir. (Laughter.]
Not in New London, sir.
Mr. Hardy. Then they are in bad shape.
Mr. BATEs. They are just floating around.
Captain SCHUMACHER. All the people are not living in Now London.
Mr. RIVERS. Will Mr. Hardy yield to me right there?
Where is the Electric Boat Works?
Captain SCHUMACHER. In Groton, sir.
Mr. RIVERS. How far is that from here?
Captain SCHUMACHER. This is 4 or 5 miles south of the base, sir.
Mr. RIVERS. Four or five miles south of this base!
Captain SCHUMACHER. Yes, sir.

Mr. RIVERS. Aren't a lot of these enlisted people waiting there to get phased in on these submarines and they go there waiting until the completion of them, and the various work that goes on at the Electric Boat and at New London?

Captain SCHUMACHER. There are some I would say

Mr. Rivers. That you are taking about that are not entitled to housing, like the families there waiting 2, 3, and 4 months, as well as the others, for both places?

Captain SCHUMACHER. There aren't many people in that category, sir. There are usually about-I wouldn't say over 50 people entitled to housing in each complement waiting for a boat.

Mr. RIVERS. You have an awful lot of people who are attached to New London-I mean to this Electric Boat Works, waiting for their ships, at various stages. You are bound to have.

Captain SCHUMACHER. About-
Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, I am willing to pass this thing over.
Mr. BROOKS. May I ask a question about it, though?
The CHAIRMAN. You mean to approve it?
Mr. HARDY. I mean pass it over.
Mr. RIVERS. I think we ought to approve this.
Mr. BROOKS. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. You have a good many Federal installations there, I happen to know about it.

Now, tell me this: Have you figured in the housing available for other installations? How many projects do we have on housing up there and how much do they cover!

Captain SCHUMACHER. Sir, the Federal installations include the submarine base, the training center, the Marine Corps Reserve units, SUBLANT and Reserve group, the Sound Laboratory, superintendent of shipbuilding, inspector of naval ordance, headquarters Submarine Development Group, Submarine School, the Medical Research Laboratory

Mr. BROOKS. You have the Coast Guard Academy there, too.

Captain SCHUMACHER. Marine barracks. Yes, the Coast Guard Academy is there, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Now, wait just a minute.

Have you figured the amount of housing available for all of those projects, I mean, federally owned housing?

Captain SCHUMACHER. Yes, sir, those are all in our figures, sir. Mr. Brooks. How many housing units do we already have there?

Captain SCHUMACHER. We have not included the Coast Guard requirement, sir. But we have counted the number of our people who are in federally owned housing.

Mr. BROOKS. How many housing units do you have in all of those projects?

Captain SCHUMACHER. In federally owned housing, sir, we have federally sponsored housing included—450 Wherry's; we have 77 rental units, and we have 12 public quarters.

We also have other PHÀ housing, sir. There are 300 units in a place known as Conning Towers.

Mr. BROOKS. Well, leave out PHA. Now, that is all of the federally sponsored or federally owned housing we have, excluding the PHA, is that right?

Captain SCHUMACHER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BROOKS. All right.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hardy.

Mr. HARDY. That Public Housing Administration stuff that you have there: What is that, Lanham Act business?

Captain SCHUMACHER. Yes, sir.

Mr. HARDY. And it is all determined to be inadequate? Captain SCHUMACHER. It is in the process of being condemned and evacuated now, sir.

Mr. Hardy. You are moving people out of it now?

Captain SCHUMACHER. Yes, sir; we have moved over 400 people out in the last year, sir.

Mr. HARDY. Where are you putting them?

Captain SCHUMACHER. Some have been moved into Conning Towers, which is another low-cost unit. Some into the Wherry; 34 went to private rentals, and 180 moved out of the area. Mr. HARDY. Are you reducing or increasing your civilian population at Groton ?

Captain SCHUMACHER. I am not prepared to say definitely, sir. Mr. Hardy. That would make right much difference on the question of your total housing, wouldn't it?

Admiral AILES. Electric Boat Co. has gone on three shifts, sir. So I think the employment up there is increasing considerably, sir.

Mr. HARDY. Well, I would think that it would, but I wanted to have some reassurance.

Now, do you have any tabulation for determining in what categories this deficit of housing falls in? Is it inadequate housing that people are living in, and if so, is it based on the physical conditions, on floor space, or on excess rentals by somebody's standards?

Captain SCHUMACHER. Sir, we have a total-in order to eliminate the 1180, that is the civilian people I will talk to only the military requirements here. The 551 report their housing is substandard in accordance with sanitary conditions, structural, and space.

Mr. HARDY. Now, let's talk about that just a minute. You said they report that?

Captain SCHUMACHER. Yes, sir.
Mr. Hardy. Now, what does the Navy know about it?

Captain SCHUMACHER. The community support, sir, was evaluated by two methods. The first was by a questionnaire submitted to all married personnel attached to all naval command based at New London. Mr. HARDY. I understand what that is.

Captain SCHUMACHER. The second method, sir, was by an evaluation team consisting of the public works officer, the chaplain, the medical officer, the sanitation officer, and a member of the chamber of commerce.

Mr. HARDY. What did they do?
Captain SCHUMACHER. They used the following criteria, sir.
They viewed the houses and they used the following criteria.
Mr. Hardy. Did they inspect them, themselves?
Captain SCHUMACHER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HARDY. How many of them?
Captain SCHUMACHER. They inspected 22 percent.
Mr. HARDY. All right.
Captain SCHUMACHER. Of those that are reported as inadequate.

Mr. Hardy. You could have answered that in 14 words, by saying you had a committee represented by these people who inspected them, and could have satisfied what I asked you.

Captain SCHUMACHER. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Any objection on this item?
(No response.)

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The CHAIRMAN. If not, it is approved.
Read the next one.

Mr. KELLEHER. Naval facility, Pacific Beach, Washington, 30 units, approved previously, Mr. Chairman.

On page 26, line 1, Naval facility, Point Sur, Calif., 24 units, approved.

Line 2, Naval Air Station, Whidbey Island, Wash., 550 its, approved.

Line 4, Naval Ordnance missile test facility, White Sands Proving Grounds, N. Mex., 51 units, approved.

Line 1, Naval radio station, Winter Harbor, Maine, 20 units, approved.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to thank the subcommittee for having considered all these items. It helped the full committee a great deal.

Mr. RIVERS. Mr. Chairman.
If the committee will give me permission, I can insert our report.
We had a meeting on Thursday.

The CHAIRMAN. On these items in here?
Mr. RIVERS. Some of them are.
The CHAIRMAN. All right, we will read them off.
Outside the continental United States. Go right ahead.

Mr. BATEs. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if this would be a good time to talk about Squantum Gardens.

Mr. KELLEHER. A Wherry project, Mr. Chairman.

Admiral Ailes. I think we may have a little more appropriate occasion later. We have an amendment coming in, sir, that is very similar to it, for Indian Head, here. You may want to talk about it then. It is an exact parallel, sir.

Mr. BATEs. Any time you are ready:
The CHAIRMAN. Now, go outside the continental United States.
Barbers Point, 1,140 units.
Mr. KELLEHER. Approved, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. That is approved.
Go ahead.

Mr. KELLEHER. Line 11, Fleet Marine Force, Pacific, Headquarters, Camp H. M. Smith, Oahu, T. H., 168 units, approved.

Naval Station, Ġuam, Mariana Islands, 220 units, not approved, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.
What information have you to submit to the committee on Guam!
Where is it?

Mr. KELLEHER. The second one on the sheet.
The CHAIRMAN. Is this it?
Mr. KELLEHER. Yes, sir, the second one.
The CHAIRMAN. I don't see it.
Mr. BATES. That is the wrong one.
Mr. KELLEHER. Here [hands].
The CHAIRMAN. Oh, yes.

Of course, we all recognize that Guam, isolated like it is, needs quarters. Unless there is some amendment offered or some question on it, I will approve it.

Mr. Bates. May I ask a question?

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