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We have 991 substandard sets of quarters on the base, Mr. Chairman, that we hope we can dispose of with this new project. They are being charged rent, as of very recently.

If this housing is built, this 856, we will have 41 percent of our housing on base.

Mr. KILDAY. Any questions? Without objection, it is approved.

Mr. RIVERS. Mr. Chairman, unless there is some specific objection to the next remaining two, why do we not just

Mr. Kulday. I think we should show the justification in the record.

Mr. KELLEHER. Line 7, Mr. Chairman, United States Disciplinary Barracks in California ; 60 of the 160 units have been approved.

Colonel SYMBOL. At this

Mr. RIVERS. I want the record to show that the reason that the entire figure is being requested of the committee is because the line-item requirement in the last year's public bill requires it. They are really not ready to ask for a lot of these things, but they feel they have to ask for them now because of the requirement of the law.

Colonel SYMBOL. Mr. Rivers, we like to give this committee the facts on our family housing. Mr. RIVERS. Well,

some of the facts may not be as sound now as they would be developed later on in the year, but the law requires that you ask for them now. Hence, that is the reason you are doing it.

Colonel SYMBOL. Yes, sir.
Mr. KILDAY. Go ahead.

Colonel SYMBOL. At this disciplinary barracks, we have a total requirement of 389 units, 29 of which are for the lower 3 grades. Our assets consist of 36 public quarters. We have no Wherry and no existing Capehart. This proposed clearance is for 160, 60 of which have been previously cleared. There are 65 people living off base, for a total of 261 sets of quarters. If this project is approved, we will have 54 percent of our housing on base. This is the one and only disciplinary barracks we have on the west coast or the western part of the United States.

Mr. Gavin. I move approval, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Kilday. The project will be approved. Proceed to the next item.

Mr. KELLEHER. Line 11, Fort Eustis, Va., 243 units, and none approved.

Mr. KITCHIN. What have we done at the United States Military Academy?

Mr. KELLEHER. I am sorry. Line 9, United States Military Academy.

Mr. KILDAY. Military Academy. Colonel SYMBOL. At the Military Academy, we have a requirement of 1,441 units; 131 are for the lower 3 grades. Our assets consist of 628 public quarters. There are no Wherry and no Capehart. We are requesting 156 units; 91 percent are living off base in adequate community support.

We have 19 sets of substandard quarters. If this project is approved and constructed, we will have 60 percent of our requirements on base.

Mr. KILDAY. Without objection.
Mr. RIVERS. Let me ask you. These will be MCA houses?

up there.

Colonel SYMBOL. Sir, we are going to attempt to do them under the title VIII Capehart, if it is at all possible.

Mr. RIVERS. Why would you want to put Capehart housing at West Point? That is ridiculous, sir. You mean to say anybody ought to get any money out of West Point? That is a permanent school, forever. You ought to put appropriate housing there, colonel.

Colonel SYMBOL. Mr. Rivers
Mr. RIVERS. You know that.

Colonel SYMBOL. We have found, under the Capehart program, we can build fine sets of quarters for junior officers and below.

Mr. RIVERS. Whatever you can do under Capehart, you can do cheaper under appropriate housing.

Colonel SYMBOL. Yes; we can. Mr. RIVERS. Certainly, you can. I think that it is a mistake, Mr. Chairman, to try to put Capehart at West Point, because I have lived with this housing as much as anybody now on this committee.

Now, West Point and Annapolis and the Air Force Academy; those are no place for a contractor to make money. That is our property Mr. Kilpay. Well, you want to get the housing

Mr. RIVERS. Wait a minute. He has not asked for appropriated housing.

I move that that be changed from Capehart to appropriated housing, Mr. Chairman. There is no sense in that.

Mr. Kilday. I doubt if we should do that, or that we could do that in the bill the way it is drafted.

Mr. RIVERS. Nr. Kelleher can fix the proper amendment because this is rough.

Mr. BRAY. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Kilday. Mr. Bray.

Mr. Bray. I would like to make this observation regarding Mr. Rivers' motion: We have tried here for four consecutive years to get this taken care of by appropriated housing. This committee would authorize the appropriation to be made and the money was used for something else.

No time in those 4 years did they ever use 50 percent of the authorization we are giving them. I am certainly not blaming you. You made a fine representation here, Colonel, but I think we are much more certain of getting it done, Mr. Rivers, if you do use Capehartthe Capehart method. I realize we would save money if we used appropriated money.

Mr. RIVERS. Wait a minute.
What Mr. Bray says, Colonel, is that a factual statement?

Colonel SYMBOL. Mr. Rivers, we have built since I have been on the job, over 6,000-I think it is about 6,600 MCA houses. We have used all the money that has been authorized us to build houses. We have units that are authorized but we do not have the money to go with it.

Mr. RIVERS. In other words
Colonel SYMBOL. We have built every house that we can, sir.

Mr. RIVERS. In other words, the people who come up and justify appropriated housing priority is out of business? Is somebody doing that in the Defense Department?

Colonel SYMBOL. Well, sir, the Department of Defense policy is to build the bulk of the houses from the title VIII program.

Mr. KILDAY. It is just a question of if you are going to get the housing, you had better approve this. Mr. SMART. That is right. Mr. KILDAY. Then you know you will get it. Mrs. St. GEORGE. Mr. Chairman, I am going to suggest we do a É. this. I know of the need up there and we have to have the OuSln Co. Mr. fivers. I am interested in the same thing you are. Rather than see you do without them, I will withdraw my motion. Mr. KILDAY. The project is approved. We will proceed to the next item. I think you should justify Medina. Mr. KELLEHER. Line 11, Fort Eustis. Mr. KILDAY. Oh. Colonel SYMBOL. Sir, at this station we have a requirement for 3,981 units, 374 of which are for the lower 3 grades. At this station we have 127 public quarters and 412 Wherry. We have 600 Capeharts that are essentially completed. This project for 223, plus 1,054 units of adequate community support. For a total of 2,416 units. We have 177 sets of substandard quarters on the base. If this project is approved, we will have 38 percent of our assets on base. Mr. RIVERs. I move we approve it. Mr. KILDAY. Without objection, the item is approved. Proceed. Mr. KELLEHER. Line 16, Canal Zone— Mr. KILDAY. I think you ought to justify Medina. It has not been done. Line 12—oh, no, that is already approved. Mr. KELLEHER. That was o Colonel SYMBOL. We have an acceptable bid on that, already. Mr. KILDAY. All right. Mr. KELLEHER. Line 16, Canal Zone. None approved. Colonel SYMBOL. At the Canal Zone, Mr. Chairman, we have a total requirement for 5,836 units, which includes 4,055 lower grades that are not authorized housing and we do not compute requirements for those. Our assets consist of 1,086 public quarters. We have no. Wherry and no Capehart housing. We are proposing 330 this morning. We have no adequate community support. That totals 1,426 current assets. We have 723 units of substandard housing in the Canal Zone that we would like to get rid of, sir. Mr. KELLEHER. 80 percent, Mr. Chairman, of their total requirements. Colonel SYMBOL. 80 percent will be on post. Mr. RIVERs. I move its approval.

Mr. KILDAY. Without objection, the item is approved.
Proceed to the next item.

Mr. KELLEHER. Line 17, Mr. Chairman, Schofield Barracks, 385 units and none approved.

Colonel SYMBOL. Sir, for this 385—at Schofield Barracks we have 4,420 units requirement, 335 of which are in the lower 3 grades. We have 398 units of public quarters and no Wherry. We have 1,326 Capehart housing under construction. We request 385 units today, all of which will be built at Schofield Barracks. We have 649 units of adequate community support. For a total of 2,758 units of current assets.

We have 532 sets of substandard quarters at this station. If this project is approved, we will have 68 percent of our housing on base.

Mr. KELLEHER. I might say, Mr. Chairman, that the two figures that I have do not agree. The colonel might like to explain it. I have 5,209 as your total requirements and 55 percent as the percentage that you will have if this is approved. Are yours more recent than mine?

Colonel SYMBOL. Yours were typed last night, Mr. Kelleher. I would say yours are more recent. I would like to check that and furnish it for the record. May I, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. KILDAY. You may supply it for the record.

(The information with regard to Schofield Barracks, T. H., is as follows:)

20066-58No. 86-18

Existing and approved housing

Existing family housing assets

Proposed projects

Private and


Military only

Location of projects









ed by Ap-
ment by
of the DOD

Number Percent Number Percent

units require units require-


Schofield Barracks, T. H.:


3, 420

398 398

0 0

1, 326 1, 326

649 927

2, 373 2,651

385 385

385 385

2,758 3, 036

90 89

2, 109 2, 109

69 6, 352, 500 62

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