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want to show you that we do have the requirement, because the people are there with their family and children.
Mr. LANKFORD. That is existing assets, Colonel. And the 160 units are in the community no matter who lives in them.
Colonel SYMBOL. Yes; but 149 that are living in these are the ones that are authorized housing and we wanted to show you those. You would have to take the difference
Mr. HUDDLESTON. Will the gentleman yield at that point?
Mr. HUDDLESTON. I think the difference is the 11 units are occupied by the men in the lower three grades and are not available for occupancy by the people who are authorized the housing allowance. I think that is what the difference is.
Mr. BURNS. That is the difference in grading of community support; is that it?
Colonel SYMBOL. No, sir; that is the total adequate community support. Mr. LANKFORD. Is what, 160 orColonel SYMBOL. 160. Mr. BURNS. Then why do you show 149 ?
Colonel SYMBOL. Because we always break out those personnel that are not authorized housing by permanent legislation.
Mr. BURNS. It is still occupied.
Mr. LANKFORD. Are you talking about housing assets, or are you talking about people or units.
Colonel SYMBOL. I guess both.
Mr. LANKFORD. Well, are you talking about people or are you talking about units to live in that are available?
Colonel SYMBOL. We are talking—that 149 figure-we are talking about people that you authorized the quarters and the units they are living in, and the 160 includes the lower 3 grades of the people that are living in
Mr. KILDAY. One hundred sixty are being used and 149 are those we are obligated by law to provide houses to.
Colonel SYMBOL. Yes, sir.
Mr. LANKFORD. But the units are still there, Mr. Chairman, no matter who lives in there.
Mr. KILDAY. That is right.
Mr. Kilpay. Unless there is an amendment offered, the project is
Mr. Gavin. You referred a minute ago, Colonel, or some reference was made to applications. And then I think Mr. Hardy contended that the applications were filled in by the wife of the serviceman. What kind of applications are you talking about?
Mr. Kulday. The questionnaire.
Mr. KELLEHER. A questionnaire as to adequacy of houses in the community now occupied by military personnel,
Mr. Gavin. Have you any evidence that the wife of the serviceman fills that questionnaire in, or the serviceman fills it in?
What material difference does it make who fills it in? I suppose the serviceman has to live with his wife, naturally. I presume he confers with her if he is going to fill in the questionnaire for housing.
Mr. HARDY. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. Hardy. Does your wife consider that everything in her house is adequate now!
Mine does not.
Mr. Kilday. I presume the questionnaire is submitted under the obligation of the serviceman to return a truthful reply to the questionnaire.
Colonel SYMBOL. That is correct, sir.
Mr. GAVIN. I think no doubt the serviceman does confer with his wife. Maybe she has not got everything she would like to have. I do not see any reason why, because the serviceman confers with his wife about the house they are going to live in, there should be any reference made to it.
Mr. Kilday. I think we should proceed to the next project.
Mr. KILDAY. Mr. Kelleher.
Colonel SYMBOL. Yes, sir; at Fort Stewart, Mr. Chairman, we have a total requirement of 708 units, 100 of which are for the lower 3 grades. At this station we have no public quarters, no Wherry housing, and we have 388 Capehart housing, which are essentially completed, plus the 73 units that is before the committee today. This is an isolated station, with no community support. For a total of 461 sets of quarters.
On this station we have 388 on post substandard public quarters that we hope to dispose of.
If this project is approved, we will have 76 percent of our requirement on base.
Mr. KILDAY. Are there any questions?
Colonel SYMBOL. Sir, this is an antiaircraft and a tank-training center.
Mr. SMART. There is only 1 on the east coast and only 1 on the west coast.
Mr. BRAY. May I ask one question !
Mr. KELLEHER. Line 23, Mr. Chairman, Fort Sill, 349 units. None
Colonel SYMBOL. At Fort Sill, Mr. Chairman, we have a requirement of 6,288 housing units, 1,149 of which are for the lower 3 grades. We have total assets on the post of 3,615 consisting of 363 public quarters, 500 Wherry, no Capehart, and we are including as assets 349 Capeharts, and we have 2,403 community support.
We have 355 sets of substandard quarters on the base. If this project is approved, we will have 25 percent of our housing on base. Mr. KuLDAY. Any question as to Fort Sill? (No response.) Mr. KILDAY. If not, it is approved. Proceed.
Mr. KELLEHER. The next one, page 10, line 1, Fort Leonard Wood, 700 units, none approved.
Colonel SYMBOL. At Fort Leonard Wood we have requirements for 4,672 units, 932 of which are for the lower 3 grades. On the station we have 33 sets of public quarters, recently completed, and no Wherry housing. We have 1,329 sets of Capehart housing that is just getting started, that is under construction. We are requesting 700 Capeharts today, which we are including as assets. And we have 12 units of community support, for a total of 2,074 units. We have 1,269 substandard sets of quarters on the station and if this housing is approved, we will have 55 percent of our assets on base.
Mr. Kilday. Any questions?
Mr. KITCHIN. How many do you have in the community that you declare as substandard !
Colonel SYMBOL. Sir, I have been stationed at Fort Leonard Wood and recently I inspected the station again. And my report, plus another report made by an officer that followed me, we said this is the worst housing that we have ever seen in the Army, the substandard housing on base. It is a horrible way to have people live. The closest town to Fort Leonard Wood is Waynesville, about 8 miles, and there are 1,100 people and there is just no housing there.
Mr. KITCHIN. 1,100 people?
Colonel SYMBOL. And we have 1,500 that are living off base at Lebanon and Rolla about 35 or 40 miles away from Leonard Wood.
Mr. KILDAY. The project is approved.
Mr. KELLEHER. The next one is line 2, Fort Leavenworth, Kans., 200 units, none approved.
Colonel SYMBOL. Fort Leavenworth is the Command Agency Staff School for the Army, where we have our senior officers attending the school.
Again, I have been to the school and I have inspected these houses. We have a requirement for 1,809 units, 124 of which are for the lower 3 grades.
We have 443 public quarters, 227 Wherrys and there are 300 Capeharts that are completed or under construction. Then we are counting as assets these 200 units. Then we have 86 units of community support. We have 293 substandard sets of quarters on this base. If this project is approved, we will have 69 percent of our housing on base.
Mr. KILDAY. Any questions?
Mr. BRAY. You say you only have 86 community support at Fort Leavenworth?
Colonel SYMBOL. Yes.
Mr. BRAY. How many are now living-does that include the student officers, or are you considering
those? Colonel SYMBOL. It is both, sir. When I was a student I lived off base, in the town of Leavenworth.
Mr. Bray. That is what I was thinking. You mean there is only 86 community-support houses in that vicinity?
Colonel SYMBOL. Yes, Mr. Bray. That town of Leavenworth.
Colonel SYMBOL. We have 13 that are living in substandard quarters.
Mr. HARDY. On the post?
Colonel SYMBOL. No, sir; this is off the post, and 70 are paying more than the rental allowance; and 6 excess distance, sir.
Mr. HARDY. And no one else at Fort Leavenworth is entitled to quarters, either students, the first 3 graders or officers, who are living off the post, other than that 86 ?
Colonel 'SYMBOL. Yes, sir; these 86 are adequate communitysupport. We count those as assets.
Mr. BRAY. Then how many are living there aside from those 86 houses, in what you would call substandard houses?
Colonel SYMBOL. Thirteen in substandard, and 70 that are paying excess rent and 6 excess distance from the station.
Mr. Bray. And no one else is living there in that town or locality, off the post, outside of those that you mentioned, those that are living in standard and those living in substandard housing?
Colonel SYMBOL. Well, there are 293 substandard sets of quarters on station that people are living in.
Mr. KELLEHER. But those are on the post.
Mr. BRAY. I know. I am talking about off the post. You mean only the number that you have given there are the only ones that are living off the post ?
Colonel SYMBOL. Those are only those eligible for housing under permanent legislation. Plus, Mr. Bray, you have to count this 293 living in substandard quarters that we are trying to replace. Mr. BRAY. Yes; that is on the post ? Colonel SYMBOL. Yes. Mr. BRAY. I am talking about off the post. Colonel SYMBOL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Bray. I was under the impression, a pretty strong impression, that there is a lot more than that living in the community.
Colonel SYMBOL. No, sir.
Mr. KELLEHER. Line 6, Mr. Chairman, 376 units at Fort Lewis. A total of 1,213 have been approved.
Mr. RIVERS. Let me ask the colonel a question.
I am going to be
Colonel SYMBOL. Mr. Rivers, I am going to be one staff officer leaving the Pentagon this summer feeling that I happened to be around when there was something accomplished. I think Congress has been quite good to us in the service. You have given us many authorities leasing, appropriated-fund housing, Capehart housing, surplus commodity, housing for research and development stations. We have gotten approximately 30,000 houses, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. RIVERS. You fared pretty well before our subcommittee, have
Colonel SYMBOL. Yes; we have, Mr. Rivers, and we are very appreciative of the help you have given us.
Mr. RIVERS. The reason I am asking you—and I am serious about it-is the tedious figures which you have to compute to get your slide rule which you developed as a result of a lot of the inquiries from the committee, Mr. Kelleher and the rest of the committee, and from suggestions. It has been a dry sort of thing, and I am just wondering how you like that billet..
Colonel SYMBOL. It is quite frustrating at times, to be perfectly frank with you,
Mr. RIVERS. I think so. Colonel SYMBOL. But, as I say, I will be a staff officer feeling quite pleased that we have made substantial progress in family housing. Mr. RIVERs. You will consider we are pretty good folks?
Colonel SYMBOL. At Fort Lewis we have a requirement for 8,523 housing units, including 1,299 for the lower 3 grades. Our assets consist of 1,778 public quarters. We have no Wherry housing. We have: 375 units of Capehart, the contract of which was recently awarded. And then this program for 856, which we count as assets. Then we have 2,528 people living off station in adequate community support, for a total of 5,535 sets.