per year compared to the present method of delivery by tank car, or tank truck, and in addition the other two services located on the field will utilize this facility.

Mr. BROOKS. That is one of those joint use fields?

Commander EPPERSON. Yes, sir.

Admiral TAYLOR. The Navy is the host in this case and accommodates the Air Force and the Air National Guard.

Mr. BROOKS. It is a naval air station?

Commander EPPERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Now, what land are you acquiring there?
Commander EPPERSON. Four acres of land in fee.

Mr. BROOKS. How much is it going to cost?

Mr. TIENCKEN. Mr. Chairman, we have that in the justification sheets at approximately $8,000 which was based on an estimate. We are hoping to get it at less than that, but that was the estimate that was available at that particular time.

Mr. BROOKS. Is that not an awful price for that land out there? Mr. TIENCKEN. That appears high and we are having it appraised. If the appraisals indicate a value lower than that, of course, we will purchase it at the appraised value.

Mr. BRAY. Why do you need that land?

Mr. TIENCKEN. It is required for a wharf on the canal several hundred yards away from the station.

Mr. DUCANDER. They are going to build a timber wharf on the intercoastal canal there because they feel they can bring the jet fuel in cheaper by barge than they can by rail car, or by truck. They have set out a savings here of .0127 per gallon and they say it will save the Navy $452,000 a year.

Mr. BRAY. Does the Navy own a place near the waterway?

Mr. TIENCKEN. No.

Mr. BRAY. You have no land adjacent to this canal?

Mr. TIENCKEN. No land touching this canal at the present time. Mr. BROOKS. How far out of New Orleans is that?

Commander EPPERSON. It is 8 miles southeast of New Orleans. Mr. BROOKS. That land is on the canal but it is pretty low land in there. Being on the canal would be desirable for industrial purposes, I understand that.

If you have it reappraised, it will come before the subcommittee

anyway.

Mr. TIENCKEN. This item will not have to go before the subcommittee since it is less than $25,000, but we are having it appraised and we will attempt to buy it at the appraised value, which now looks like it will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,000 instead of $8,000. Mr. BROOKS. Then why should we approve it at $8,000 under those circumstances? Maybe we better pass that by until we get it properly appraised?

Mr. TIENCKEN. Mr. Chairman, that figure, as I say, was put in at the time the justification sheets were being worked up, and our appraisals have come in since then, and the item now appears to be $2,000 instead of $8,000.

Mr. BROOKS. If there is no objection, we will reduce that appraisal from $8,000 to $2,000. Is that all right?

Mr. TIENCKEN. Yes, sir.

20066-58-No. 85- -3

Mr. BROOKS. How much difference will that make?

Mr. TIENCKEN. $8,000 was the total, and it is now $2,000 total, so it would be $6,000.

Mr. BROOKS. We will reduce that item by $6,000, with the explanation of the lower appraisal.

Admiral TAYLOR. I think that is very reasonable, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Without objection, we will tentatively approve that part of the item.

Now take up the next one.

Commander EPPERSON. The jet-engine-test facility. This unit will permit testing of jet engines under controlled conditions without having to put them in the airplane frame. Under present conditions of testing, using the airframe, it is necessary to remove the engine if a test indicates further work is required. The test cell will eliminate this inefficient procedure. The unit will also facilitate training of reserves, as the personnel may view the tests from the control chamber. Mr. BROOKS. Are there any questions on that?

We will take up the next one.

Commander EPPERSON. Jet-fuel storage. This item will permit storage of adequate amounts of aviation fuel aboard the station for weekend and 2 weeks' training of the Naval Reserve.

Mr. BROOKS. Twenty thousand barrels; is that what it is?

Commander EPPERSON. This item will provide for four 5,000-barrel jet storage tanks.

Mr. BROOKS. Take the next one. I think we have covered the administration building.

How about the auditorium and the gymnasium? Tell us about that. Commander EPPERSON. This is to provide a building which will contain the necessary areas for group instruction and a theater. The auditorium theater can also serve as a gymnasium, and this facility will be used jointly by all three services at the field, Air Force, Navy, and Air National Guard.

Mr. DUCANDER. How many permanent party personnel do you have at Alvin Callender?

Mr. BROOKS. Nine hundred and forty-one are authorized.

Commander EPPERSON. The permanent party authorized, including the joint users, 945.

Mr. DUCANDER. Now, to revert just a moment to the administration building, $368,000 for the administration building, and that is for 80 people. Is that a regular price for an administration building to take care of 80 people?

Commander EPPERSON. I have a list of the people who will be in

here.

Mr. DUCANDER. 14 officers, 58 enlisted men, and 8 civilians that will use an administration building that is going to cost $368,000. Is that what you consider to be a good price for an administration building at this time?

Captain ETTER. Yes, sir. That is $14 a foot for an administration building which is about the going price down there at this time and I would like to point out that this provides merely 130 feet per person, net, in this administration building, which is not unreasonable for that type of operation.

Mr. DUCANDER. Would you figure one hundred and how many feet?

Captain ETTER. It is 14,000 feet, sir, gross, of which 10,400 feet is the net office space, sir.

Mr. DUCANDER. But would you provide 130 square feet for every enlisted man who is going to be working in this building? Would that not mean almost a separate office for every one of them?

Commander EPPERSON. This is based on Department of Defense instructions which lists 130 square feet per building occupant in an administration building.

Mr. DUCANDER. Well, that is an answer, but I hardly think it is a good answer. I realize that that is why you are saying that, that the Department of Defense says that 130 square feet per man would be right, but do you consider that proper? For a Reserve training base, I mean?

Commander JACOBS. This is just a way of measuring. The 80 people working there will be serving many people who will be in and out of the building, getting their pay records, this and that and the other fixed up. This 80 people times 130 provides the file space and all the other service counters and so on.

Naturally no one man would occupy alone a cleared space of that many square feet.

Does that answer the question?

Mr. DUCANDER. It does to some extent. I just think that at a Reserve training base $368,000 is a very high figure to administer the affairs of the Reserves coming in there.

Mr. BRAY. That is over $26 per square foot, which is considered quite high.

Mr. JACOBS. All the buildings have to be on piling and we have quite a considerable problem of foundations.

Mr. BROOKS. You knew that before you put it there. I discussed it with you. It is low land, very low.

What about the auditorium and the gymnasium? You have $480,000 for it?

Commander EPPERSON. We feel there is a need for that, Mr. Chairman. The base is remotely located. You have enlisted personnel there on 2 weeks' training duty and for 3 months' accelerated training during the summertime, and this will furnish them a building for recreation, for gymnasium in addition to divine services and theater.

Mr. DUCANDER. It is hardly any more remotely located than someone who lives out on River Road out in Bethesda or some place like

that.

Commander EPPERSON. We are thinking of furnishing recreation for the enlisted personnel while they are aboard for 2 weeks or longer, to keep them out of the city, and they will not have much money to spend, in addition.

Mr. BROOKS. That will provide an auditorium for how many people?

Commander EPPERSON. We have a table of maximum personnel to be aboard at any one time, that includes a permanent party, Navy and Marines, 514; one-fourth of the Reserve personnel, 331; 2 weeks' cruise personnel, 328; and the Air Force personnel, 527; for a total of 1,700.

Mr. BROOKS. Is the Air Force going to have 500 people there at all times?

Commander EPPERSON. This is peak loading. At any one time.

Mr. BROOKS. But the Air Forces told me they do not expect to use it to any really large capacity. That will make a total of how many people?

Commander EPPERSON. The total I just gave you, which would be the maximum that would be aboard at any one time, would be 1,700. Mr. BROOKS. 1,700?

Commander EPPERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. The auditorium is for 1,700 people?

Commander EPPERSON. I do not believe you could get that many people in at one time, but it has 350 seats in the auditorium. Mr. BROOKS. You have $480,000 for it, have you not?

Commander EPPERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. It ought to be a pretty good auditorium for that.

Mr. DUCANDER. Is it air-conditioned?

Captain ETTER. Yes, sir. It is chilled water cooling.

Mr. BROOKS. Is the gymnasium and auditorium-how many people will be able to use the gymnasium at one time?

Commander EPPERSON. This will be the same space, Mr. Chairman. The seats will be removable so they can use it as a gymnasium. Mr. BROOKS. Can 1,700 people use it at one time?

Commander EPPERSON. No, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. How many?

Commander EPPERSON. 250. There is seating for 350 people.
Mr. BROOKS. Are there any questions?

Mr. BRAY. That is approximately $34 per square foot.

Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Ducander, would it be possible for you to check with the commander privately on some of these items here and we could come back to it? Some of them I do not fully understand.

Check, too, on the costs there that Mr. Bray refers to. I agree with the commander when he said $13 a square foot seemed to be about the right cost, but this figure does not come out that way.

Mr. BRAY. It is $34 here.

Captain ETTER. That includes the equipment, the pile foundations, the chilled water system and the utilities and services necessary to accommodate this building.

The cost for the structure itself is $28 a foot, which compares with an across-the-board average of $24.

Now, the cost index in that area is 1.28.

Mr. BROOKS. $11, then. Is that the average cost you say?

Captain ETTER. No, sir, I said that the cost index is 28 percent in excess of the cost index around Washington, which is 1.

Mr. BROOKS. The construction cost in New Orleans is 1.28?

Captain ETTER. That has been our experience in Alvain Callender, yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Without objection, we will pass this item over and we will have a chance to check privately with you before we dispose of

the bill.

Take up the next one then.

Commander EPPERSON. Approach lighting at Naval Air Station, New York. The installation of the standard approach lighting sys

tem will be accomplished by this item. The system provides navigational guidance to the pilot on instrument flight rule procedure. Mr. BROOKS. Any questions?

If not, that stands approved.

Next, Naval Air Station, Niagara Falls, N. Y. Operational and training facilities and utilities, $652,000. What is that?

Commander EPPERSON. The first item is extension of a jet taxiway. The taxiway will be placed on land obtained from the United States Air Force by permit. It is an operational and safety requirement. It provides a taxiway extension to enable aircraft, particularly jet aircraft, to safely utilize the 1,500-foot extension provided by the Air Force for the principal station runway.

Mr. BROOKS. How many people do you have at this place? I see it is 403 authorized. You actually have 315.

Commander EPPERSON. That is the permanent party. On board is 376; 403 authorized; the Reserves is 1,119.

Mr. BROOKS. If there is no objection to this item, it is approved. Naval Air Station, Olathe, Kans., training facilities, $570,000. Commander EPPERSON. This item is for the stabilization of runway and taxiway shoulders and end zones. It is an operational and safety requirement to provide for stabilization of runway and taxiway shoulders in accordance with approved criteria. At the present time the end zone and shoulders offer hazards for planes which overrun the ends and go off the side of existing runways or taxiways.

Mr. BROOKS. How long are these runways there now?

Commander EPPERSON. The longest runway is 8,500 feet and the next is 7,300 feet.

Mr. BROOKS. Where is this place? How far out of Kansas City? Commander EPPERSON. That is 20 miles southwest of Kansas City. Mr. BROOKS. If there are no questions, we will approve this naval air station.

Naval Air Station, South Weymouth, Mass., utilities, $407,000.

Commander EPPERSON. This is to extend the underground steam line which will eliminate operational costs chargeable to the station alpha fund, eliminate 6 hours per day of boiler watch labor and eliminate the requirement to replace the boilers in the bachelor officer quarters and the dispensary.

Mr. BROOKS. Any questions on that?

That is near Boston, is it not?

Commander EPPERSON. That is 13 miles southeast of Boston.

Mr. BROOKS. You have an assigned personnel there of 584. You have construction requirements of $23 million.

If there is no objection, it stands approved.

Naval Air Station, Willow Grove, Pa. Utilities, $99,000.

Commander EPPERSON. This item is for a standby generator plant. Mr. BROOKS. That situation is the same substantially as the one we went into earlier?

Commander EPPERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. $99,000 is about the regular cost of these generators for standby plants?

Commander EPPERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Without objection, we will approve that.

We have now the Naval Reserve, surface. What is the sum total for Naval Reserve, surface, in the bill?