Senator METCALF. I want to give Mr. Turner a chance to ask some questions. I have to adjourn when the bells ring for the vote at 12 o'clock. However, I have one final observation. We are in agreement that many of these committees have not been balanced in accordance with the provisions of this statute or your guidelines. Isn't that true? Mr. MALEK, Mr. Chairman, I think we are in agreement that certain of the committees have not been properly balanced in accordance with the guidelines. I hesitate to assign a percentage. Senator METCALF. I think some of the committees have not been balanced, and I have pointed out some examples of imbalance. We have to do something about enforcing the statute. I know of many committees that have performed every function of the statute and done. everything to keep the committees open and to give the proper notice and to have public representation on the committes and so forth. But there are others who have just absolutely refused to observe any of the legislative intent of the Congress. Some of those are the most important, the most significant and most influential advisory committees in the Government. It seems to me that it is going to have to be the responsibility of your agency-as the agency in charge of this act-to assure that those committees too, are balanced. Are you doing anything in proposed amendments to the guidelines to assure that those directions will be observed? Mr. MALEK. Yes. The guidelines, of course, spell out the requirements, I think, in a fairly definitive fashion. That is not to say that the guidelines themselves are going to result in totally balanced committees in every instance. Senator METCALF. There will have to be enforcement. Mr. MALEK. It will take enforcement and it will require some followup and it is going to require us inquiring of the agencies as to the progress they are making in this regard. This we intend to do. Senator METCALF. I have given you an example and provided you with a letter from Mr. Mitchell of the National Oil Jobbers and maybe that is one we can go to work on. Mr. MALEK. Yes, sir. We will certainly take a look at that in the next few days. Senator METCALF. Mr. Turner? Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman, back to the administrative functions of the OMB on this act. I take it that OMB considers this a very important piece of legislation, doesn't it, Mr. Malek? Mr. MALEK. We very much do, for a number of reasons. First, because of the cost involved, second, because of the importance of the overall function of having outside advice on the many issues and third, because I think of the import of having public access. We think that is an important part. Mr. TURNER. Would you say, too, regarding the administration of the act by OMB, that in a sense your chief function is coordinationobtaining information as to how the agencies are doing and what committees should or should not be abolished-the information function? Mr. MALEK. I think it would go beyond that. I would go also to insure that the act is carried out. Mr. TURNER. I Would like to ask you a question on that. Do you see in the legislation authority vested in OMB to assure that the requirements of the act are in fact carried out? Do you have that power, that function? Mr. BEDELL. If I can answer that, Mr. Turner, I don't see spelled out definitively that OMB has, for instance, the veto over membership on the committees or the establishment of the committees themselves. I do not see it expressly. Mr. TURNER. You say you don't see any power over the balanced membership of the committee? Mr. BEDELL. I do not see spelled out in the act that power in OMB. Mr. TURNER. What about the operations or advisory committees, the opening of the meetings, the carrying out of procedures and guidelines for handling meetings? What power would you have there? Mr. MALEK. In those instances, I think we would exercise the powers that we do from the President-deriving from the President, really. As the President's executive arm, it would be our responsibility to see that those policies are carried out in accordance with the act. Mr. TURNER. In order to do that it would seem to me you would have to continually inform yourself as to the activities that are going on in the agencies relative to carrying out of the Advisory Committee Act. Is that not correct? Mr. MALEK. I agree. Mr. TURNER. So, then the information function, as I call it, is a very important part of your organization, and your responsibility. Mr. MALEK. Yes. Mr. TURNER. You have a professional staff of one full-time member, and I believe, a student, maybe 20 hours a week, as well as one secretary. Is that the total staff that is carrying out this informational function? Mr. MALEK. That is the total staff assigned to it on a full-time basis. However, this staff maintains a close and cooperative working relationship with the agencies. Mr. TURNER. Would you submit to this committee the names of each individual that assist the professional staff member, the number of hours that they have actually put in during the past year? That would be very helpful. Senator METCALF. Mr. Hawley, can you do that? Mr. HAWLEY. Sir, I can give you a comprehensive list of the people who have assisted. As to the number of hours, that is an unknown which would probably be disproportionately expensive to derive. Senator METCALF. We don't want to exercise a function of the office of Government reports and submit to you a questionnaire that is disproportionately expensive and the public interest isn't worth the time. Can you just compile a list of people that have helped you or some of their offices? Mr. HAWLEY. A list of both, yes, sir. Senator METCALF. Without getting into Mr. HAWLEY. Yes, sir, a list of people and agency elements. Senator METCALF. I think it would be important to identify not only the people that have helped you but also what their regular job is. Mr. HAWLEY. Certainly. Senator METCALF. If it isn't worthwhile in your opinion, we are not going to give you a job that we would complain that you gave to some store manager or something. Mr. MALEK. I think it would be not a huge task to do that, Mr. Chairman. We will be glad to submit a list of those people who have worked with us. Senator METCALF. A reasonable list that can easily be compiled will help us. Mr. TURNER. As it relates to OMB personnel. [The information subsequently supplied follows:] EXECUTIVE BRANCH ELEMENTS THAT WORK WITH AND ASSIST THE Within OMB Office of the Director-the General Counsel, Congressional Relations, Public Affairs and Administration. Assistant Director for Management and Operations (policy direction). Assistant Director for Budget Review. Program Divisions, principally: Statistical Policy. Information Systems. Human Resources. Community and Veterans Affairs. Natural Resources. Energy and Science. Outside OMB Department of Justice (Office of Legal Counsel). Advisory Committee Management Officers (ACMO) of all agencies, with principal support and discussion with HEW, Commerce, Agriculture, Defense, Interior, Labor, State, Transportation, Treasury and General Services Administration (as a general rule, ACMOS are located in the Management element of the Assistant Secretary for Administration). Mr. TURNER. On January 4, Interior Secretary Rogers Morton announced the appointment of 10 new members and one reappointment to the National Petroleum Council. I would like to have this placed in the record, Mr. Chairman. [News release of the Department of the Interior, Office of Oil and Gas, Jan. 4, 1974] SECRETARY MORTON NAMES ELEVEN MEMBERS TO NATIONAL PETROLEUM COUNCIL Secretary of the Interior Rogers C. B. Morton announced the appointment of ten new members and one reappointment to the National Petroleum Council for the remainder of the 1974 fiscal year. The new appointees are: Lowell N. Applegate, Director of Exploration, Ethyl Corporation, Baton Rouge, Louisiana: Kenneth E. Hill, Executive Vice President, Corporate Finance, Blythe Eastman Dillon and Company, Inc., New York, New York; Wilbur H. Mack, Chairman of the Board, Michigan Consolidated Gas Company, Detroit, Michigan; Jeff Montgomery, Jr., Chairman of the Board, Kirby Industries, Houston, Texas; Netum A. Steed, Independent Operator, Taubert and Steed. Wichita Falls. Texas; G. L. Vinson, Oil and Gas Producer, Wichita Falls, Texas; John J. (Jack) Warren, Independent Oil Operator/Producer, Tyler, Texas; and Ivan West, President, Association of Oilwell Servicing Contractors, Eunice, Louisiana. The one reappointed member is Norman C. Keith, President, Commonwealth Oil Refining Company, Inc., San Juan, Puerto Rico. The National Petroleum Council was established in June 1946 to advise, inform, and make recommendations as requested by the Department of the Interior regarding any matter relating to petroleum or the petroleum industry. ESTABLISHMENT AND PURPOSE OF THE NATIONAL PETROLEUM COUNCIL In May of 1946, the President stated in a letter to the Secretary of the Interior that he had been impressed by the contribution made through governmentindustry cooperation to the success of the World War II petroleum program. He felt that it would be a good idea if this close relationship were to be continued and suggested that the Secretary of the Interior establish an industry organization to advise the Secretary on oil and gas matters. Pursuant to this request, the National Petroleum Council was established on June 18, 1946, by Secretary of the Interior Julius A. Krug. The purpose of the National Petroleum Council is solely to advise, inform, and make recommendations to the Secretary of the Interior or the Director of the Office of Oil and Gas with respect to any matter relating to petroleum or the petroleum industry. Matters which the Secretary of the Interior would like to see considered by the Council are submitted as a request in the form of a letter outlining the nature and scope of the study. The Council reserves the right to decide whether or not it will consider any matter referred to it. The Council does not concern itself with trade practices nor does it engage in any of the usual trade association activities. Members of the National Petroleum Council are appointed for one-year terms each fiscal year by the Secretary of the Interior. Membership is drawn from all segments of the petroleum and natural gas industries. The Council is supported entirely by the voluntary contributions received from its members. The Council is headed by a Chairman and Vice Chairman, who are members of the Council and the industry. The Secretary of the Interior serves as Government Cochairman with the Assistant Secretary of the Interior for Mineral Resources designated to serve in his absence. National Petroleum Council Officers: Chairman: H. A. True, Jr., Partner, True Oil Company. Government Cochairman: Honorable Rogers C. B. Morton, Secretary of the Interior. Vice Chairman: Robert G. Dunlop, Chairman of the Board, Sun Oil Company. Executive Director: Vincent M. Brown, National Petroleum Council. Abernathy, Jack H., President, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73114 Anderson, Robert O., Los Angeles, California 90071 Applegate, L. N., Director of Exploration, Ethyl Tower, 451 Florida Boulevard, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70803 Atkins, Orin E., Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Ashland Oil, Inc., Post Office Box 391, Ashland, Kentucky 41101 Bass, Perry R., Building, Fort Worth, Texas 76102 Bauer, R. F., Chairman of the Board, Global Marine House, Los Angeles, California 90017 Bennett, Carrol M., Chairman of the Board, Texas Pacific Oil Company, Inc. Dallas, Texas 75250 Blackburn, W. T., Partner, Vaughey and Vaughey, 1650 Denver Club Building, Denver, Colorado 80202 Boyd, Howard, Chairman of the Board, El Paso Natural Gas Company, Houston, Texas 77001 Bridges, H., President, 12th Floor-Fort Worth National Bank Shell Oil Company, One Shell Plaza, Houston, Texas 77002, NATIONAL PETROLEUM COUNCIL MEMBERSHIP (126)-Continued Burch, Bob, Independent Operator, 1077 Race Street, Denver, Colorado 80206 Butler, Roy, President, Calvert, F. A., Jr., Chairman of the Board, Calvert Exploration Company, (Fiscal Year 1974) 2300 Fourth National Bank Building, Tulsa, Oklahoma 74119 Chambers, C. Fred, President, 608 First City National Bank Building, Houston, Texas 77002 Chandler, Collis P., Jr., Chandler & Associates, Inc., Clay, Herbert D., Chairman, c/o National Fuel Gas Company, 10 Lafayette Square, Buffalo, New York 14203 Cleary, William B., President, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73116 Cochran, Karney R., President, Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil Assn., c/o K-Arcy Corporation, 313 North Main Street, Wellsville, New York 14895 |