TESTIMONY OF VIRGIL GWIN, PLAYING FIELD, IND.

Mr. BONNER. Mr. Gwin, will you give your name, your residence, and your vocation to the reporter?

Mr. GWIN. Virgil Gwin, live at 266 Avon, Playing Field, Ind., township principal superintendent there.

Mr. BONNER. Mr. Gwin, is Playing Field in the vicinity of Bunker Hill?

Mr. GWIN. No; it is 14 miles west of Indianapolis, Mrs. Harden's district. I moved away from Bunker Hill in February 1948.

Mr. BONNER. Were you the superintendent of the Bunker Hill School?

Mr. GWIN. From August 1942 until May 1947.

Mr. BONNER. May 1947, did you become associated with the Bunker Hill School of Aviation?

Mr. GWIN. Two weeks after my school closed, yes, I became registrar of the Bunker Hill School of Aeronautics.

Mr. BONNER. July of 1947?

Mr. GWIN. No; I started to work for them in May 19 or 20, of 1947. Mr. BONNER. May of 1947. Had the school been organized at that time?

Mr. GWIN. They were in the process of organizing it and hired me to complete the organization, work out the curriculum, get the students, do the testing at that time, and be prepared to have the boys there ready to go to work when they were ready for the school.

Mr. BONNER. You were to be the-what was to be your position? Mr. GWIN. Registrar of the school.

Mr. BONNER. Registrar of the school. Were also you an instructor? Mr. GWIN. No, sir.

Mr. BONNER. You became registrar in May of 1947 ?

Mr. GWIN. That is right.

Mr. BONNER. At the time you became registrar, had the school received any surplus property prior to your becoming registrar?

Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir. It had enough personal property at that time to justify my taking the job as registrar of the school. After viewing the property and seeing what was out there, I was convinced that we could have a school. Therefore, I decided to quit teaching school and take the job offered me.

Mr. BONNER. Well, now, you say that you saw that they had sufficient equipment to operate a school. Are you qualified as machinist mechanic or an aviation expert to recognize the equipment they had to have to run a school of aviation?

Mr. GWIN. I felt that I was; yes, after 25 years of teaching and holding superintendents, high-school principals, general supervisors in the field of teaching and administration, having supervised, directly responsible for five different defense training courses held in our school at night for adults. In other words, I had confidence enough in my own ability to feel that I was qualified; yes, sir.

Mr. BONNER. Did the school receive any surplus property after

you

Mr. GWIN. That property

Mr. BONNER (continuing). After you became registrar?

Mr. GWIN. Registrar. The property that was received at the school had been ordered maybe 2 or 3 or 4 months before

Mr. BONNER. I asked you the question

Mr. GWIN (continuing). And was still coming in.

Mr. BONNER. They received property after you became registrar. Did you sign for any of the property, receipt for it, receive it? Mr. GWIN. No, sir; that didn't come under my jurisdiction. Mr. BONNER. Did you notice to whom the material was directed? Mr. GWIN. No.

Mr. BONNER. Did that come in your observation?

Mr. GWIN. No, sir; I paid no attention to that whatever, because I was busy on what I have to handle.

Mr. BONNER. Now, as principal of Bunker Hill High School, did you receipt for any property that came into Bunker Hill for this Bunker Hill High School?

Mr. GWIN. No, sir; not from the standpoint of the school of aviation. We received, while I was principal at Bunker Hill High School, several different articles of our own in connection with this defensetraining program that we got through Mr. McCombs' office in Indianapolis to carry on night training school.

Mr. BONNER. Your school, the Bunker Hill High School, was certified by Mr. McCombs-is it McCombs or McComb?

Mr. GWIN. McComb.

Mr. BONNER. The State superintendent of education, or a similar position, he certified your school as eligible to receive property? Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BONNER. Now, you were superintendent of the Bunker Hill High School?

Mr. GWIN. Bunker Hill High School.

Mr. BONNER. There is no other school.

Mr. GWIN. We call it Bunker Hill for the benefit of the record, the discussion this morning. We sign our record as "Bunker Hill Consolidated School." We had grades 1 to 12 in our building.

Mr. BONNER. Now, did you have any knowledge of property coming to Bunker Hil addressed to the Bunker Hill school that was received and went over to the air base?

Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir. Bills got tangled up in their mail, and they would come to me get into my box. I would lay them out to the side, addressed to them, and opened one before I knew what this situation was and what it was for. I opened it and found a bill.

Mr. BONNER. So, the Bunker Hill High School or the Bunker Hill School had been certified twice then; had it?

Mr. GWIN. No; our high school hadn't been certified but once.

Mr. BONNER. Well, your high school. Was it your high school that was used to secure property for the Bunker Hill School of Aviation before they were incorporated?

Mr. GWIN. They say that it was.

Mr. BONNER. I don't ask you to "say."

Mr. GWIN. To my knowledge, I had no knowledge of its even being certified. Never came through my office, nor neither was I consulted. Mr. BONNER. Well, did you know anything about the certification that your trustee of the township had been asked to sign?

Mr. GWIN. I was reading it-what I read in the newspaper only. Mr. BONNER. Well, then, you had no knowledge that your said school had been certified twice then?

Mr. GWIN. No, sir.

Mr. BONNER. Do you have any knowledge now that your school was certified twice?

Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BONNER. And was it certified twice?

Mr. GWIN. Yes; I will say it was, and the property was transferred away from that township to the Bunker Hill School of Aeronautics. Mr. BONNER. How could you tell yours or could you tell at the point of delivery what was intended for your school and what was intended for the School of Aeronautics?

Mr. GWIN. It never came to my attention.

Mr. BONNER. Sir?

Mr. GWIN. That never came to my attention.
Mr. BONNER. It didn't get mixed up?

Mr. GWIN. No, sir.

Mr. BONNER. How do you keep it separated?

Mr. GWIN. We got nothing from War Surplus for our school: The Bunker Hill High School. We got ours through the War Training Defense Training Branch.

Mr. BONNER. You received yours from the State pool at Indianapolis.

Mr. GWIN. That is right.

Mr. BONNER. That is where you received yours? Now, then, a truck or rail shipment coming to Bunker Hill, how would they know whether it was for your high school or whether it should be delivered to the air base? You get the idea, could you explain that?

Mr. GWIN. No, I don't. I wondered lots of times how they kept that straight but none of them ever came to our school.

Mr. BONNER. That is an interesting point. I am glad to hear you answer it so frankly. It puzzles me to know how they kept these shipments straight and apart and your frankness is refreshing.

Mr. GWIN. They came in by carload lots and truck lots and so on. Mr. BONNER. But you were the principal of the Bunker Hill School or the Bunker Hill High School weren't you?

Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BONNER. And always you were not notified about the arrival of rail shipments or truck shipments, they just automatically went over to the air base?

Mr. GWIN. Yes, that is not uncommon in Indiana though in any branch of high-school management under a principal, a principal has no authority in purchasing materials or paying any bills whatsoever. Under the law that is the trustee's authority and responsibility.

Mr. BONNER. Well, I mean the dual name if we may use it in such a close vicinity, wouldn't it be unusual when your school was commonly known as the Bunker Hill School or the Bunker Hill High School that those delivering the material would not notify you about it? But would deliver it some place else? It was unusual wasn't it?

Mr. GWIN. I would say so.

Mr. BONNER. Did you sign a bill of lading for property shipped to the Bunker Hill School of Aviation?

Mr. BONNER. After I became registrar I was authorized as you might say deputy treasurer for a while in the absence of the permanent one and I was authorized a few times to sign some shipments.

Mr. BONNER. Now were those shipments to the Bunker Hill High School or the Bunker Hill School?

Mr. GWIN. The Bunker Hill School of Aeronautics.
Mr. BONNER. Those shipments that you signed for?
Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BONNER. You never signed for a shipment shipped directly to the Bunker Hill School or the Bunker Hill School of Aeronautics?

Mr. GWIN. I signed some for the Bunker Hill School of Aeronautics but not to my knowledge for the high school.

Mr. BONNER. Or for the Bunker Hill School?

Mr. GWIN. No.

Mr. BONNER. How long, sir, were you an employee of the Bunker Hill School of Aeronautics?

Mr. GWIN. I believe I went to work on May 20, 1946, or 1947, and started back to teaching in Playing Field on November 24, 1947. Mr. BONNER. How long were you employed at the school? Mr. GWIN. From May to November of the same year.

Mr. BONNER. And you spent your time at the Bunker Hill Aeronautics Air Base?

Mr. GWIN. That is right.

Mr. BONNER. From May until November.

Mr. GWIN. From May 19 until a few days previous to November 24. Mr. BONNER. How many registered students did you have, sir? Mr. GWIN. I have a list of my prospective students, I had a group of them correspondence, some of them had even written in their application. I was ready to open the school on August 11, 1947, with 50 students. I had better than a hundred names in addition figured in another month or so after that we might be able to add another 50. Mr. BONNER. How many students reported to the school, sir? Mr. GWIN. I had none to report; because there was no lease and you see I kept them in suspense and postponing them until the lease was signed. We could not put anybody's name on this as official until we had a lease signed for the school.

Mr. BONNER. Now when you separated from the Bunker Hill School of Aeronautics, was there any financial difference between you and the school?

Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir; that is the reason I am still interested.

Mr. BONNER. Sir?

Mr. GWIN. That is one of the reasons I am still interested.

Mr. BONNER. Did you testify in Washington?

Mr. GWIN. No, sir.

Mr. BONNER. How much did the school pay you as compensation

during this time?

Mr. GWIN. The school paid me at the rate of

Mr. BONNER. How much did you receive?

Mr. GWIN. $5,000 a year on a 12-month basis.

Mr. BONNER. How much did they actually pay you?

Mr. GWIN. They are still in debt to me a month and a half salary. Mr. BONNER. They paid you all but a month and half?

Mr. GWIN. All but a month and a half.

Mr. BONNER. And who did the paying?

made?

How was the payment

Mr. GWIN. Through the treasurer of their school, L. O. Zick, most generally handed to me by Mr. Duke Harrah.

Mr. BONNER. Cash or check?

Mr. GWIN. Check.

Mr. BONNER. Signed by Mr. Harrah?
Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BONNER. Privately or as an official?

Mr. GWIN. As an official of the school.

Mr. BONNER. What was his title on the signature?

Mr. GWIN. Vice president and general manager.

Mrs. HARDEN. I had two questions but they have been answered, thank you.

Mr. BURNSIDE. Do you have any firm agreement with these students on the list that you have?

Mr. GWIN. No affirmed, I had them all, nothing written down. Signed up.

Mr. BURNSIDE. Do you have that list available?

Mr. GWIN. This list of names, yes sir.

Mr. BURNSIDE. And you had corresponded with them?

Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir; here's copies of my letters.

Mr. BURNSIDE. To each one of them?

Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BURNSIDE. You have response for them that they were ready to sign as students?

Mr. GWIN. Not all of them. No, but some of them had come to my office; we had talked over all the details.

Mr. BURNSIDE. Did you have any, do you have any correspondence showing that they were ready to come there to take the courses?

Mr. GWIN. No; no correspondence; I left all of that correspondence when I left the school. I left the file.

Mr. BURNSIDE. Well, did they leave a file for correspondence?
Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir; and I left it in good shape.

Mr. BURNSIDE. With whom did you leave that file?

Mr. GWIN. Left it in the office; turned the keys over to Mr. Harrah. Mr. BURNSIDE. How many letters in that file stated they were ready to come to school?

Mr. GWIN. I don't know. I can't asnwer that question exactly but it was more than our required number to open our school with. Mr. BURNSIDE. I thought you said, didn't you say you had 50 ready to come?

Mr. GWIN. Yes that was our required number to open but we had more than 50.

Mr. BURNSIDE. You had those ready to come?

Mr. GWIN. Yes.

Mr. BURNSIDE. What date did you promise them to open?
Mr. GWIN. August 1, 1950.

Mr. BURNSIDE. And they would be there at that date?

Mr. GWIN. Yes, sir; and here's a letter that I had to send out to those when we had to postpone the opening of the school apologizing to them for the delay. Here is the name of my, or the veteran counsellors in the different counties that I had agreements with, and they were counseling their students and all of them in favor of aviation was to contact them, Kokomo, Barr, in Wabash, Giesler, in Marion, those people

Mr. BURNSIDE. Do you have a list there with the addresses? That we can put in the record?