Insofar as my own attitude on the matter is concerned, that there is no conflict in general, and where any might appear as specific I will be quick to recognize them and disqualify myself on judging any such

issue.

Senator SPONG. This next question does not relate directly to you or Mr. Washington. I am talking in terms of the positions. Do you envision any conflict between the position of Chairman of the Council and that of Commissioner in the duties of these two offices?

Mr. HECHINGER. Well, I would say that I can see none. It seems to be a historic relationship, one that appears in most cities of our country.

Senator SPONG. Would you elaborate on that remark?

Mr. HECHINGER. Well, as a mayor I visualize Mayor Washington to be the head of the executive and the administrative parts of our new government, and I visualize that the Council as being the legislative branch in my position as Chairman to be the head of the legislative branch of the government, and therefore to work together toward the progress and the movement of the normal course of business of the city.

Senator SPONG. Do you equate one of your positions to that of a city manager?

Mr. HECHINGER. Would you repeat that?

Senator SPONG. Do you equate either position with that of a city manager?

Mr. HECHINGER. No, not precisely. I think that we are fortunate in this recent appointment as having as a Deputy Commissioner, Tom Fletcher, who is a city manager, comes highly recommended with tremendous background in work in San Diego and in his work in general through his Federal service that will in effect give to the mayor's office an expertise which will work in line with the city manager concept.

Senator SPONG. I am sure that you and I both realize that this is a unique situation, and it is not comparable to most other large cities where you have a city manager system of government, and where the head of the legislative body is the mayor?

Mr. HECHINGER. Yes, sir; I recognize that there is a variation from that form of government.

Senator SPONG. When you visited in my office we spoke at length or at some length about the school system in the District of Columbia. Have you had an opportunity to review the qualifications and the background of the nominees? I am asking you this because I do not want to ask each one of them the same question.

Mr. HECHINGER. I think that in almost each one of the Councilmen I see products of public schools such as myself; and of those who have not gone to public school in the District of Columbia have done so in other jurisdictions, and I think that this background will serve them on the Council as well as the fact that just candidly I must say that there is no more issue that is on our minds than the educational matter in Washington as it is in every city, not that it is something particularly different than other cities, and I think that each of us, each one of the Councilmen speaking of them collectively, knowing their background, and in connection with agencies in the city have touched on the public education matter of Washington.

Senator SPONG. Mr. Diegelmann in his testimony earlier made some mention of a lack of balance and experience in certain areas. I reviewed the qualifications. Am I correct in that with the exception of Mr. Yeldell, who had 3 years' experience in the Pittsburgh school system, that none of the other nominees have been connected in any way with the public school system or School Board members? Is that correct other than being students, as you pointed out?

Mr. HECHINGER. I would say that you will find in their background, sir, substantial activities in home and school associations, PTA's, as they were called, a direct relationship. I know personally I was heavily involved at the time, and each one of those members has been involved in that manner. Now, to my knowledge, none other than Mr. Yeldell has been a teacher or has been on the School Board itself.

Senator SPONG. Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there further questions?

Thank you very much, Mr. Hechinger. We will take our customary noon recess. We will be in recess until 1:30.

(Whereupon, at 12:35 p.m., the committee was recessed, to reconvene at 1:30 p.m., on the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

The CHAIRMAN. The hearing will resume.

Senator DOMINICK. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. The Senator from Colorado.

Senator DOMINICK. I wonder if we could ask Mr. Hechinger to come back for just a minute. There are some policy questions that I would like to get bis viewpoint on before we continue.

The CHAIRMAN. I have no objection.

Mr. Hechinger, would you mind returning to the witness stand? The Senator from Colorado is recognized.

Senator DOMINICK. Mr. Hechinger, you made a statement in the process of this morning's testimony about this being a part-time job.

STATEMENT OF JOHN W. HECHINGER-Resumed

Mr. HECHINGER. Yes.

Senator DOMINICK. In view of the difficulties of the job, which are rather clear, let me ask you this. How much time do you think is going to have to be spent on the City Council by you as Chairman and the

other members?

Mr. HECHINGER. Well, sir, I don't have a very clear picture of that at this time except I am positive that during the early stages, if we are confirmed, we will be at the job almost full time while we get the organization started, and I think that thereafter what we will have to do is sit down and try to get from the advisers that we have to the mayor and deputy mayor the normal frequency of meetings of city councils and probably follow that pattern that is done in the major cities of our size, and we will have to do such homework and such background work as is required to meet those public or executive meetings. Senator DOMINICK. Do you anticipate regular meetings, and do you anticipate the Council being in a series of committees with assigned responsibilities in various areas of government which will be involved?

Mr. HECHINGER. At the present time as far as myself is concerned, and I believe I speak for most of the members of the Council, this has

been a rather sudden and limited time to be able to even formulate private ideas about the answer to that question, so that we have not met as a body.

We have come onto a new organization that must be set up, and although I have had some talks with the deputy mayor in particular in regard to the frequency of meeting, I would not at this time presume to set for the Council that frequency.

Senator DOMINICK. At the moment you don't know how often you may have meetings or at what time they would be or anything of that kind?

Mr. HECHINGER. No, sir. I think that this would probably be the first order of business. That at the present time the Corporation Counsel is working on a draft of rules and regulations

You see, we even have to choose such basic things as what rules of conduct to operate our hearings under, whether it be Roberts Rules or such fundamental things that have been set up in other governments for years. We are stepping into a brandnew situation where the paper is absolutely clean, and we have got to do everything from that simple kind of a basic decision.

Senator DOMINICK. Do you contemplate that your meetings will be open to the public?

Mr. HECHINGER. Yes, sir.

Senator DOMINICK. I believe that under the authorizing act that the Council has the right to designate certain expenses for itself, presumably in the appropriations bills.

Do you contemplate staff members, for members of the Council? Mr. HECHINGER. Yes, I do.

Senator DOMINICK. And I presume these will be staff members? Mr. HECHINGER. Yes, sir.

Senator DOMINICK. There has been some discussion whether District employees should be District residents. Have you formed any opinion on that?

Mr. HECHINGER. I think this is correct-that they should be District residents. I will say at the same time that there are many citizens of the metropolitan area who devote a good portion of their time to District of Columbia affairs, both in the community and in the social welfare field, who are excluded by the fact that they do not live within the confines of the District, and for that reason it is unfortunate, but it would seem most logical, and I believe correct, that anyone to serve on the Council, as I said before, hopefully at some future date on an elected basis, that they must come from the geographical confines of the District of Columbia.

Senator DOMINICK. I wasn't thinking about Council members. I was thinking about, for example, members of the Police and Fire Departments. At the moment, as you probably know, outside limits have been set as to where they may live. I think it is about 21 miles from the Capitol, which, of course, goes outside the District. If you say that all District employees have to be residents of the District, you have a real serious problem.

Mr. HECHINGER. I think, certainly, at this time it would be impossible to have that; yes, sir. I think if such a thing seemed to be in the best judgment, that there would have to be a pullout of some years of transition, because there are so many qualified people in staff posts that are now serving in the District, that to automatically say that

they have to be a resident would form such a hardship on the government that it would be impossible.

Senator DOMINICK. Looking at it as a whole, then, wouldn't you feel that this is going to be a pretty full-time job?

Mr. HECHINGER. I am afraid so, yes, sir.

Senator DOMINICK. Which would require pretty strict attendance by all members of the Council, would it not?

Mr. HECHINGER. It would, sir, yes.

Senator DOMINICK. How will this fit in with your own business obligations?

Mr. HECHINGER. I would say it is my feeling that the job has been formulated as a part-time job. I do believe that this is rather normal in city councils.

I know personally take the jurisdictions around Washington-I know that the Rockville Council is made up of all men who are either working for the Government or working for private industry. I think the Alexandria City Council is the same way.

Whereas there seems to be some large burden at the beginning I think that it probably should be a part-time job, and it should be no more than that, and I hope, because of my commitment to my business, that it can be done in that fashion. I do not believe that once we get operating, that it will be more than that.

Senator DOMINICK. How long do you think this initial period will take?

Mr. HECHINGER. I think that there will be several stages in that. I think that within a month's time that the first phase should be over. We should be completely in the organization stage, and that is the time that I think will give us the long days and the complete concentration to Council business.

I think thereafter there will be a more intense period of 2 or 4 months, and I think that thereafter, and I am answering this rather off the cuff, because the truth of the matter is that I haven't really formulated that kind of a question in my mind, I think that we will be operating as we say in the Air Force, at first-string level, and everything will run in accordance with the plan as a part-time job.

Senator DOMINICK. Mr. Hechinger, I have no idea whether you can answer this question or not. I preface it by that. It is totally unrelated to what I was saying before. Do you have any idea of how much money it is going to cost the District to supervise the proposed march on the Pentagon tomorrow?

Mr. HECHINGER. I have absolutely none, sir. I will add that this, of course, is at the present time under the existing administration, and I have not been made privy to those facts.

Senator DOMINICK. Thank you, Mr. Hechinger.

Mr. HECHINGER. Thank you, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. Were there further questions of Mr. Hechinger? Thank you very much, Mr. Hechinger.

Our next nominee is Rev. Walter E. Fauntroy, Vice Chairman of the District of Columbia Council.

Reverend Fauntroy, we are very happy to hear from you.

84-529-67- -7

STATEMENT OF REV. WALTER E. FAUNTROY, NOMINEE TO BE VICE CHAIRMAN, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA COUNCIL

Reverend FAUNTROY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Walter E. Fauntroy and I appreciate this opportunity to tell you a little about myself and my hopes for the future of the District of Columbia under the reorganized government. I am a native of Washington, D.C., born and raised in what is now the Shaw urban renewal area.

For 8 years I have been minister of New Bethel Baptist Church at Ninth and S Streets, Northwest, in the Shaw area, the church of my childhood, the church whose dedicated members underwrote the cost of my first year of college education at Virginia Union University and who, together with my parents, and my six brothers and sisters, were a source of both spiritual and financial support to me as I continued my preparation for the Christian ministry at Yale Divinity School. During those years of preparation almost every course in the social sciences came alive for me against the background of the problems and ills of our city as I experienced them growing up in the District. Since returning to my home church and community, therefore, I have busied myself with church and community programs which addressed themselves to the treatment of those ills. Efforts to improve housing conditions, job opportunities, our schools, and welfare programs have been among the activities that have claimed my time and energies. My concern in these areas have led naturally and almost inevitably to my work with the Model Inner City Community Organization, Inc., a community-based group dedicated to renewing the Shaw community physically, socially, and economically; with, by, and for the people who live and work there.

In addition, among other groups I have served on the board of directors of the United Planning Organization, the Interreligious Committee on Race Relations, the Council of Churches, and the Junior Citizens Corps.

I have also been active in the civil rights movement as director of the Washington office of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. This has involved me in the nonviolent movements in Birmingham, Ala., the August 28, 1963, March on Washington, the Selma-toMontgomery march and the Meredith Mississippi freedom march as a coordinator; and last year as Vice Chairman of the White House Conference "To Fulfill These Rights."

I am deeply honored to have been nominated by the President to serve on the new City Council. While I did not seek the position, I am resolved to give it the very best I have.

My often frustrating efforts to improve conditions for the citizens of the District over the past 8 years leave me with no illusions as to the difficulty of the task ahead for the new mayor and City Council. The vast majority of our Negro citizens remain caught in a vicious cycle by which we are confined to housing that is exploited, send our children to schools that are neglected, from which they emerge with education that is inferior, to take the lowest paying jobs, and thus return to the ghetto to live in housing that is exploited, send our children to schools that are neglected, to emerge with education that is inferior, and so the cycle goes on and on. To break that cycle and create a better life for all of our people is a most difficult task requiring