Mr. KING. Will you withhold that motion just a moment?

Mr. BANKHEAD. Yes.

Mr. KING. Mr. Littledale, one statement that you made about salaries you said that for every $6 of tuition, as I understood you, there was $11 of overhead?

Mr. LITTLEDALE. $111 of salaries paid to employees in that particular month.

Mr. KING. Now, do you take into consideration any other expense that the board was to besides tuition, such as travel, books, and maintenance?

Mr. LITTLEDALE. I made it specific that it was tuition alone, sir. Mr. DALLINGER. You are aware that to a very large extent the board gets tuition given to it for nothing by certain institutions? Mr. LITTLEDALE. I did not know that.

Mr. DALLINGER. Did you think that the board paid the full amount of tuition to all the colleges and universities where the men are being trained?

Mr. LITTLEDALE. I would not say the full amount to all of them; no, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to have the names and addresses of any persons who had expected to appear before the committee and who would like to appear later. It is very evident that we can not get through to-night. And, Mr. Littledale, if there are any other names than what you have submitted let me have them with their addresses.

Mr. KING. I want it to go into the record that I would like to reserve the right to examine the witness on a recall, being at the tail end of the committee and not having an opportunity to examine him.

Mr. BRAND. Mr. Chairman, I would like to suggest, too, if he has got any names of any witnesses, he ought to submit them here now while the defendants are here, so that they will know--they are entitled to know who the witnesses are who are going to testify against them.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, if you have any further witnesses I would like to have the names and the addresses. If they could be given right away I would be glad to have them.

Mr. LITTLEDALE. I can give no further witnesses at this moment that I wish to call.

The CHAIRMAN. Then the committee will go into executive session. (Whereupon, at 10.35 o,clock p. m., the committee went into executive session.)

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, Washington, Monday, March 29, 1920.

The committee this day met, Hon. Simeon D. Fess (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. The chairman of the committee would like to make a statement to the committee and also to the witnesses that appear in the investigation of the Federal Board. There is one supreme motive in the ordering of this investigation that ought to be well defined and clearly understood by all parties who appear, not only the witnesses, but also the members of the committee with whom we have consulted fully on the matter. There is only one thing that the committee desires to do and it is extremely anxious to have that much accomplished, namely, we want all the facts concerning the work of the board which has been the basis of some charges made and which were heard by the committee in its recent meeting. We as a committee do not want mere statements. We must avoid any abuse; nothing on the order of sensation except what might be the result of actual facts. There is to be no favor nor fear in the testimony to be given; no favors either on the part of the witnesses that are appearing before the committee or members of the board which will also be witnesses. We want the facts. The committee is going to go into the whole matter with a desire singly to get all the truth and for that reason the committee has authorized the proceedings to be orderly, to follow the rules of the House. The witnesses will be sworn and the procedure is to be in the most perfect decorum that is possible for us to obtain. The charges have been made seriatim and the committee will proceed with the examination of the witnesses as submitted to us by those who make the charges. However, the chairman of the committee has learned with some grief that one of the witnesses that was not to appear at once has had a great grief in his home, the death of a child. This witness will be given an early opportunity to testify so that he may return just as soon as it is possible to do so. Is that witness present?

Mr. KALISH. I am he.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you please take the witness stand and be sworn, Mr. Kalish?

(The witness, Mr. Kalish, was duly sworn by the chairman.) Mr. SEARS. Mr. Chairman, what charges are these; No. 3?

Mr. BLANTON. A point of order, Mr. Chairman. If we are going to administer the oath at all, I submit it should be a legal oath, and an oath that is understood to be binding throughout the United States, and should conclude with the admonition "So help you God." That is the oath that is usually administered, and if we are going to administer the oath at all, it ought to be a binding oath. The CHAIRMAN. That will be followed, Mr. Blanton.

Mr. BLANTON. That was not followed in the swearing of this witness.

The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman object?

Mr. BLANTON. I submit, Mr. Chairman, I think it should be the form that is the legal oath in this country.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any objections to being sworn in that way?

Mr. KALISH. None, whatever.

(Thereupon the witness, Mr. Edward M. Kalish, was duly sworn pro forma by the chairman, and being examined, testified as follows:) STATEMENT OF EDWARD M. KALISH, NEW YORK CITY.

The CHAIRMAN. Give your full name and present residence.

Mr. KALISH. My full name is Edward M. Kalish; I live at 811 Columbus Avenue, New York City.

The CHAIRMAN. You may state also what your experience has been in reference to vocational training. First, you may state your service.

Mr. KALISH. My service has been: May 8, 1917, with the National Guard, Seventy-first Regiment, New York. On August 3, or about that date, I was transferred to the old Sixty-ninth Regiment, composed of the One hundred and sixty-fifth Infantry, the Rainbow Division, United States Army at Camp Mills. On October 29 we left for France. Our first engagement was on March 17, 1918. I was in Company G Second Battalion. The Third Battalion was at the front at the time going over the top and had been attacked by gas, with a loss of 600 men. I was awakened by a telephone call to the Medical Department of our regiment for aid. I, knowing little about gas had volunteered and asked for permission to go down to the front. I had been working down there for eight or nine hours when I was overcome by it and I was hit in the leg as well. I was brought back to the line-to the hospital. My case was shrapnel wounds in the leg, splinted for 24 days, and internal burns and injuries. I was removed to the base hospital No. 32 at Camp Cantrazille, and later on sent to the S. O. S. district to do light duty such as possibly could be done in the condition that I was in. The gas came back again in August on me, I was sent to the hospital at La Rochelle, right off the coast. I contracted rheumatism at the hospital on account of the condition I was in, having been put in a

tent.

Mr. BLANTON. Mr. Chairman, a point of order, please. I submit that the inquiry here is concerning the functioning of our board in this case. Beyond the fact that the witness could state that he was injured and the nature and extent of his injuries, I think that the history of his various engagements in France and various other matters are so remote that they are irrelevant and it would probably take us a month or two if we were to go into all of these details with every witness. I make a point of order that the witness should confine himself to the inquiry.

Mr. KALISH. I am confining myself to what I have been asked to

state.

Mr. SEARS. By whom?

Mr. KALISH. By the chairman of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. The witness may state the injury he suffered in order that we may get at the need of his vocational training. Thus far the gentleman has proceeded all right.

Mr. KALISH. This injury that I have just stated at the hospital is the injury which refers to the Vocational Board. I came back to this country on January 3, on crutches from that rheumatism, in fact. The CHAIRMAN. When did you arrive here?

Mr. KALISH. January 3, at Newport News. January 30, I reached the base general hospital No. 9, at Lakewood, N. J., nearest my home. From there I have been discharged. After discharge I have been asked in regard to vocational training.

The CHAIRMAN. By whom were you asked?

Mr. KALISH. By a representative of the Federal board who had been at the time at the General Hospital No. 9. I had filled out papers at the hospital. On March 17, 1919, I had a leave of absence to go to New York. I went up to the Federal board at 469 Fifth Avenue, and there stated my case. They asked me if I had made out any papers at the hospital, which I told them I did. Therefore, they told me it would take a few weeks, and they would send them down there and I did not have to make out any more papers in the case. I was not discharged at that time. But they were willing to start in working on my case at once. April 19 I was discharged. So I went up to the board in regard to my vocational training. It was pending up until the first week in January. I could not state exactly the date, but they have agreed to give me training, recommended me to an institution which is named the Helfley Institute, in Brooklyn. They have given me such slips as the Vocational Board has as an introduction.

The CHAIRMAN. How soon after your discharge, April 19, did you go to the board?

Mr. KALISH. I had been there on the same day.

The CHAIRMAN. On the same day?

Mr. KALISH. On the same day. My papers had been made out fully before I had been discharged at the hospital, which I stated was about a month before I was discharged; my papers had all been made out by a representative of the board at the hospital who was there for that purpose.

The CHAIRMAN. You say they were pending until July?

Mr. KALISH. They were pending until July. I have had a few examinations, etc., and they claimed everything was O. K., and they gave me that introduction to go up there and see the superintendent, which I did the next day. There was a double sheet, one of which was the superintendent's copy and one went back to the Vocational Board to show that I had been there. When I arrived there I had spoken to the superintendent and he had explained to me everything and told me just how long it would take and come in within three or four days, or as soon as I heard from the board. The next day I went back to the board and explained I was there and why they received no answer, and they said yes, everything was O. K., but not to come back until three or four days because they said they would call me as soon as the papers are there, as they would have to go all the way to New York from Washington. Well, they are still on their way up to the present date.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you had any training?