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Mr. DANIELSON. I do not know that. I do not know Mr. Clark. He came on very recently, I think-only in the last few months. Mr. ROBSION. You say there is confusion and cross-purposes in the work, etc. I wish you would be a little more specific and definite.

Mr. DANIELSON. What I meant was the confusion of methods in the beginning. We sent our bills-we were told to make our bills on a certain form. The bills were left, possibly, in the files until they collected for several months and then we were told to make them up another way, and I think on three different occasions we were told to make those bills on different forms. I sent my secretary down to the office and she spent a part of two or three days trying to straighten out the matter, and finally the bills were straightened out and we were told how to do it, and the bill was paid, as I say, on the 17th of March.

Mr. ROBSION. Did you have trouble at the time Mr. Griffin was in charge of the New York office?

Mr. DANIELSON. I think that was the time I have in mind when the confusion of methods occurred during Mr. Griffin's and Mr. Farwell's time.

Mr. ROBSION. I notice that you confined, so far as your explanation in confusion of methods was concerned as relating to the bills, the finances?

Mr. DANIELSON. The financial part; yes, sir.

Mr. ROBSION. Now, have you any suggestions, or have you made any observations of any confusion of methods or cross-purposes, in the training and the other part of the work of the board?

Mr. DANIELSON. No; I would rather not go into the educational side, because I don't know enough about it.

Mr. ROBSION. But you think the training is a great success to the young men at Columbia?

Mr. DANIELSON. I do.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Dallinger has a question, Mr. Danielson. Mr. DALLINGER. I just wanted to ask you, Mr. Danielson, if any member or employee of the Federal board gave you any reason for the nonpayment of your bills at any time?

Mr. DANIELSON. No; that was the queer part of it. I could not get any reason for it. I could not get any answers. I wrote time and again, and there was no reply until very recently, and then after the propagation of the fact that the board owed us some money, I received a letter a day or two after that our bills would be paid the following week.

Mr. DALLINGER. Your relations were entirely with the District office in New York?

Mr. DANIELSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. DALLINGER. You don't know whether they sent the bills on to Washington or not?

Mr. DANIELSON. I do not know.

Mr. DALLINGER. And there never was any intimation made to you that the reason why they did not pay it was because they did not have the money?

Mr. DANIELSON. No, sir.

Mr. SEARS. In order that I may get it straight, you received the check in February; does that pay the university up until February?

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Mr. DANIELSON. No; I received a check in March, the morning of the 17th of March, for $7,900-about. They deducted several items which I shall have to take up with them later. They have deducted our chemical deposit accounts, which amounts to possibly $1,000 or more, which I will have to take up with them. There seems to be a dispute there as to the form of bill that they will accept.

Mr. SEARS. Mr. Danielson, up to what date did that check pay the university?

Mr. DANIELSON. It was supposed to pay up to the 3d of February, to pay our summer and winter sessions, with some exceptions.

Mr. SEARS. How much do they owe you now, approximately? Mr. DANIELSON. For the winter session they owe me approximately $15,600, and there were some disputed items, possibly $1,000

more.

Mr. SEARS. I ask that because I see it stated that they owe you $19,500.

Mr. DANIELSON. They paid $7,900 of that in February, since that statement was made. I believe that statement was $9,500 for the summer and winter session and $10,500 for the spring session, but that was not enough.

Mr. SEARS. This statement was made March 13?

Mr. DANIELSON. Yes. I guessed at that. I merely guessed at that. I hadn't our books written up at that time and I have had them written up since.

Mr. SEARS. And you are now preparing this bill to send to them? Mr. DANIELSON. I am.

Mr. DONOVAN. Mr Danielson, as I understand it now, the substance of the situation is that bills payable last September were paid on the 17th of March, clearing up everything with the exception of the disputed amount of about $1,000?

Mr DANIELSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. DONOVAN. That is still in abeyance to be adjusted.

Mr. DANIELSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. DONOVAN. The winter term, so called, started in February, 1920?

Mr. DANIELSON. The spring term.

Mr. DONOVAN. And it is now substantially March 30 and the bills for that spring term have not yet been paid; neither has the bill been rendered?

Mr. DANIELSON. That is right.

Mr. DONAVAN. And some one over the telephone told you to render the bill, and some one else told you it would do no good?

Mr. DANIELSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. DONOVAN. And the jury is still out?

Mr. DANIELSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. DONOVAN, That is all.

The CHAIRMAN. We are very much obliged to you, Mr. Danielson. Mr. Hartog, will you take the stand? State to the committee your full name and residence.

STATEMENT OF MR. ALFRED HARTOG, MANAGER COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY PRESS BOOKSTORE, NEW YORK CITY.

The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.

Mr. HARTOG. My name is Alfred Hartog, manager of the Columbia University Press Bookstore, 2960 Broadway, New York.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. Hartog, have you any charge to make against the board?.

Mr. HARTOG.. I have about the same charge to make as Mr. Danielson has that the board is very slow in meeting its bills.

The CHAIRMAN. You may make a statement before the committee of the facts as they appear to you.

Mr. HARTOG. The board owes us at this moment $3,233.38, of which $2,300 is overdue for about six months.

Up to January, 1920, the board had not paid for purchases made by the students of February, March, April, May, and June of last year, and September. In September, when I started to get nervous about the money, I went down town to the board to find out when the money would be forthcoming. I could not get anybody to give me any information. I kept on sending bills. In the meantime, in October, the bills amounted to over $2,000.

The bookstore is doing a cash business under the contract with the trustees of Columbia University, but the bookstore also opens charge accounts for professors and students, but the store is not prepared to have charge accounts on its books for five and six months unpaid.

In September, when the amount was about $2,000, I went down to the board with the bills made out as requested by the board, and tried to get some information when the money was coming to us. I tried to see Mr. Farwell, who was the head at that time. I was told that I could not see him.

In October the bills amounted to about $3,000. I went again with the bills, and I got the information that Mr. Farwell was busy and was not to be seen.

The CHAIRMAN. Was this at the office of Mr. Farwell?

Mr. HARTOG. Yes, sir: in front of his office, in 469 Fifth Avenuewhatever the number is, I am not sure-the corner of Forty-first Street and Fifth Avenue.

The CHAIRMAN. The party who told you that you could not see Mr. Farwell knew what you wanted to see him about?

Mr. HARTOG. Yes, sir; it was a young lady.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any evidence that Mr. Farwell knew you were there?

Mr. HARTOG. Well, he was in. I know that, because I asked whether he was in, and the lady went inside and came out again and said he could not see me.

The CHAIRMAN. You say you do not run a credit account but a cash account? You don't sell on credit, but for cash?

Mr. HARTOG. Yes: we do sell on credit.

The CHAIRMAN. On credit to students?

Mr. HARTOG. To the students and to the professors.

The CHAIRMAN. When you sell on credit do you submit a monthly bill?

Mr. HARTOG. A monthly bill which is payable in 10 days after the statement is received.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you submitted a bill to the board?
Mr. HARTOG. Every month, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And what is the reply?

Mr. HARTOG. There is no reply. The board has paid us, as I stated before, some bills in January which were overdue for six or seven months.

The CHAIRMAN. Upon whose authority do you sell the books to the students?

Mr. HARTOG. This system has been changed; the system of selling to the students has been changed three times since February of 1919. First, the board made a contract with Columbia University for the tuition fee and the books and the supplies to be sold to the students, and we were to turn in the bills to Mr. Danielson at the end of each month.

The CHAIRMAN. When you sell the books to the students is it upon the student's statement or upon the statement approved by the board? Mr. HARTOG. I have to go back to the various systems, because at the present time they have a system since February 1. Before February they didn't have a system.

The CHAIRMAN. Who changed the system, the board or the university?

Mr. HARTOG. I believe the system was changed after Mr. Farwell left the board or resigned.

The CHAIRMAN. Was it upon the initiative of the board or of the university?

Mr. HARTOG. Upon the initiative of the board.

The CHAIRMAN. The system, then, is the board's system?

Mr. HARTOG. At the present; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The thing I want to get at is whether there is such a thing as your selling to students without authority, and therefore the board could not be held for it.

Mr. HARTOG. No: we have never sold without authority.

The CHAIRMAN. You are sure of that?

Mr. HARTOG. I have the correspondence here our first authority and the changes later on.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any items of dispute between you and the board as to price or as to books?

Mr. HARTOG. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. All accounts are undisputed?

Mr. HARTOG. With the exception of a brief case which I sold to a student with only one arm. I thought he was entitled to it. I have been notified by the board that this brief case will not be paid for. I have taken it off of the account, and if the board doesn't pay it, I pay it.

The CHAIRMAN. And the amount underpaid now amounts to how much?

Mr. HARTOG. $3.233.38.

The CHAIRMAN. How far back does that go?

Mr. HARTOG. This goes back to September, the bulk of it, but there are some unpaid bills for June and July.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the last time you received any money from the board for books?

Mr. HARTOG. In January.

The CHAIRMAN. Was that part payment or full payment? Mr. HARTOG. That was part payment-just some items picked out and some of them dating back as far as February, 1919.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you ever gone over these accounts with anyone in authority?

Mr. HARTOG. Recently; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And what is the result of that conference?

Mr. HARTOG. The result is that I have been promised that the board will take care of it.

Mr. SEARS. What is the balance due? I didn't catch that.

Mr. HARTOG. $3,233.38.

Mr. SEARS. How much was paid, or has been paid?

Mr. HARTOG. Altogether, the whole amount of business that we have done with the board since February, 1919, is $4,206.90. Of this amount $973.52 has been paid, leaving a balance of the amount I told

you.

Mr. SEARS. You had 159 students there, I believe. Mr. HARTOG. I just counted them. We are keeping 145 accounts. I have all of the account sheets here. They may have 159. It is possible that some of these smaller accounts have been wiped out by the payment in January.

Mr. SEARS. What general course of study are the students following? Different courses?

Mr. HARTOG. All kinds, sir.

Mr. PLATT. How do you account for the failure of the board to pay you? Is that the intention on their part?

Mr. HARTOG. It seems to be the inefficient system they had.
Mr. PLATT. They never made any definite explanation?

Mr. HARTOG. No, sir. I have written them letters, one letter after another, and told them how we carried charge accounts and that we can't keep them on our books longer than 30 days, and they never gave us any explanation.

Mr. PLATT. They did not say they did not have the money or the appropriation was not sufficient or anything of that sort?

Mr. HARTOG. Nothing of the sort; no, sir.

Mr. DONOVAN. Do you sell the books to the board at wholesale rate, at net cost to you, or at a profit?

Mr. HARTOG. At a profit.

Mr. DONOVAN. How much of a profit?

Mr. HARTOG. It is hard to say.

Mr. DONOVAN. Average it; approximate it.

Mr. HARTOG. We have a contract with Columbia University that we give the students a discount from the list prices on books-textbooks.

Mr. DONOVAN. I thought you were the representative of the university, and that it had a cooperative store that you managed. Am I right in that assumption?

Mr. HARTOG. No, sir; your idea is wrong about that.

Mr. DONOVAN. And you are a separate business. What is the name of the concern?

Mr. HARTOG. Lempkie & Buechner.

Mr. DONOVAN. Then you are not in any way officially connected with Columbia, other than having a contract to sell certain books?

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