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smaller ships would have first call, or at least would be relied on primarily, for the Public Law 480.

The next step, Mr. Chairman, was to consider the question of rates. By this time the Commerce Department, the Maritime Administration, was called upon to publish some sort of guideline rates. Between the time of the President's announcement on October 10 and November 8, and I am referring to November 8 as the time of an announcement by Under Secretary Roosevelt, the Department of Commerce had held back and said, "Well, we will not set any rates. Let's see what the market will do.” Some of the exporters, although they did not have any specific contracts, went on the market and asked for tonnage available, tonnage during the following months, and at what price, and some of the results they got then were quite discouraging.

Some of the larger vessels were offered in at prices in excess of the top guidelines that we had published for Public Law 480, in excess of the prices that we had published for the smaller vessels, which the smaller vessels could get along with.

Mr. CHAIRMAN. Do you remember what the guideline rates were at this point ?

Mr. ĜILES. Mr. Chairman, you have that before you I believe in that package of material. It is headed “Voyage Charter Rate Guidelines.”

The CHAIRMAN. You understand. I want it for the record so someone reading it will see it.

Mr. GILES. Yes, sir; we will have that. The rate quotations the grain exporters initially obtained are understandable in that sort of situation. I think that you would get perhaps those sorts of rate quotations. Shipowners were asked really to give general advice as to what they thought they could do.

They really were not talking specific charters and they really could not anticipate at that time what the full development of the market was going to be, but the prices quoted then were also against the background of the Government's announced decision that all of this wheat shipped to the Soviet bloc countries would go in American-flag vessels as available, and it was understood that there would, in effect, be a cargo perference on it.

So the result of our sitting back and not giving any indication of rate guidelines made very clear to us that if we did that the exporter, so far as the prices quoted to him from the shipping industry, was not going to be able to compete really within reasonable terms with foreign-flag shipping

The rates would simply be up there. So we were called upon to set some rates, and our only experience, as you know, Mr. Chairman, is with the Public Law 480 program. We looked at what we had done there and we considered the experience that we had had under Public Law 480 and we determined that over the past year or 2 years actual shipments of Public Law 480 cargo had in many instances been handled at rates by American-flag vessels, particularly by the larger vessels, from 20 to 40 percent below our published guidelines. Our published guideline rates of course had been set some years ago at such a level that the smaller vessels, the Liberty vessels, could participate in that program and have a rate of return they could live with.

The CHAIRMAN. Were the guideline rates published prior to 1963 ? Mr. Giles. Yes, sir. As a matter of fact, the guideline rates largely that we have been working with were published in 1957, with some amendments since then. So that led to the conclusion, and it was a judgment, Mr. Chairman, that the Secretary of Commerce and other officials made after considering the facts, that we would be justified in specifying for the larger ships, and we drew the line at 15,600 deadweight tons, a minimum 20-percent rate. That would be their top rate for the larger vessels, and we published that after having a conference with representatives of the shipping associations, the four shipping associations.

This conference was held by Under Secretary Roosevelt on November 8.

Mr. CHAIRMAN. Let me interrupt you just a minute, Mr. Giles. Mr. GILES. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. In your voyage charter rate guidelines you state: The rates established and issued in the form of rate advices by the Maritime Administration in 1957, and subsequent thereto, will continue to be used for the transportation of U.S. Government-sponsored commodities moving in full cargo lots on U.S.-flag vessels and will be applicable to such vessels of 10,000 deadweight tons to 15,500 TDWT.

But you didn't say what these rates were in 1957 and I would like to have it in the record.

Mr. GILES. Mr. Chairman, there are several sheets of those covering the many ports that we ship Government cargo to and we can furnish and will furnish those for the record.

The CHAIRMAN. What I would like to have is the rates to the ports to which this cargo would likely move.

Mr. GILES. We can furnish those and will for the record and we have attached to this material now at hand only the voyage charter rates for the Soviet ports, and we had not published, of course, rates for Soviet ports prior to this because we haven't been sending any Public Law 480 shipments to the Soviet Union.

(The information requested follows:)

DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE, MARITIME ADMINISTRATION

VOYAGE CHARTER RATE GUIDELINES

Effective as of November 8, 1963, notice is hereby given that the Acting Maritime Administrator has determined that voyage charter rate guidelines applicable to U.S. Government-sponsored commodities moving in full cargo lots in U.S.-flag vessels are as follows:

1. The rates established and issued in the form of rate advices by the Maritime Administration in 1957 and subsequent thereto, will continue to be used for the transportation of U.S. Government-sponsored commodities moving in full cargo lots on U.S.-ilag vessels and will be applicable to such vessels of 10,000 to 15,500 TDWT.

2. The rates for U.S.-flag vessels of 15,600 to 30,000 TDWT will be 20 percent under the rates for vessels in the aforementioned category.

3. The rates for U.S.-flag vessels over 30,000 TDWT will be subject to consultation on specific shipments. Dated: November 13, 1963.

ROBERT E. GILES, Acting Maritime Administrator.

39-375-64

GUIDELINE No. 1-VOYAGE CHARTER RATE TO RUSSIA

Effective as of November 8, 1963, notice is hereby given that the Acting Maritime Administrator has established the following voyage charter rate guidelines to Russia for the carriage of wheat in bulk in U.S.-flag vessels of 10,000 to 15,500 TDWT:

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Rates for vessels of 15,600 to 30,000 TDWT will be 20 percent under the above rates. Actual rates are set forth in rate guideline No. 1-A appearing simultaneously in this Federal Register issue.

The guideline rates for vessels over 30,000 TDWT will be subject to consultation on specific shipments.

Rates are based on following conditions:
From one port of loading to one port of discharge.
Loading and trimming expense for account of vessel.
Discharge expense for account of charterer.

The foregoing represent maximum voyage charter rates per ton for the transportation in U.S.-flag vessels of full cargo lots of wheat in bulk. Dated : November 13, 1963.

ROBERT E. GILES, Acting Maritime Administrator.

GUIDELINE No. 1-A-VOYAGE CHARTER RATE TO RUSSIA

Effective as of November 8, 1963, notice is hereby given that the Acting Maritime Administrator has established the following voyage charter rate guidelines to Russia for the carriage of wheat in bulk in U.S.-flag vessels of 15,600 to 30,000 TDWT:

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Rates for vessels of 10,000 to 15,500 TDWT are set forth in rate guideline No. 1 appearing simultaneously in this Federal Register issue.

The guideline rates for vessels over 30,000 TDWT will be subject to consultation on specific shipments.

Rates are based on following conditions :
From one port of loading to one port of discharge.
Loading and trimming expense for account of vessel.
Discharge expense for account of charterer.

The foregoing represent maximum voyage charter rates per ton for the transportation in U.S.-flag vessels of full cargo lots of wheat in bulk.

ROBERT E. GILES,

Acting Martime Administrator. Dated : November 13, 1963.

GUIDELINE No. 1-B—VOYAGE CHARTER RATE TO RUSSIA

Effective as of the date hereof, notice is hereby given that the Acting Maritime Administrator has established the following voyage charter rate guidelines to Russia for the carriage of wheat in bulk and wheat flour in bags in U.S.-flag vessels up to 30,000 TDWT:

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The guideline rates for vessels :over 30,000 TDWT will be subject to consultation on specific shipments.

Rates are based on following conditions: From one port of loading to one port of discharge. Loading, trimming, and/or stowage expense for account of vessel. Discharge expense for account of charterer. The foregoing represent maximum voyage charter rates per ton for the transportation in U.S.-flag vessels of full cargo lots of wheat in bulk and wheat flour.

ROBERT E. GILES,

Acting Maritime Administrator. Dated : January 24, 1964.

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Rates are based on following conditions:
From one port of loading to one port of discharge.

Loading and trimming expenses fr account of vessel-discharging expenses for account of charterer.

Posted spot bunker fuel prices in effect May 15, 1957.
No provision for war-risk insurance or war zone bonus.

The above represent fair and reasonable voyage charter rates for the transportation of U.S. Government-sponsored communities on U.S.-flag vessels moving in full cargo lots and do not apply to shipments for private account. Effective: May 15, 1957.

OFFICE OF SHIP OPERATIONS.

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Rates are based on following conditions:
From one port of loading to one port of discharge.

Loading and trimming expenses for account of vessel-discharging expenses for account of charterer.

Posted spot bunker fuel oil prices in effect May 20, 1957.
No provision for war-risk insurance or war zone bonus.

The above represent fair and reasonable voyage charter rates for the transportation of U.S. Government-sponsored commodities on U.S.-flag vessels. moving in full cargo lots and do not apply to shipments for private account. Effective: May 20, 1957.

OFFICE OF SHIP OPERATIONS.

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Heavy grain in bulk (wheat, corn, or rye):
North Atlantic ports to

Bay of Biscay ports.
Spanish Atlantic ports.

Mediterranean ports.
Gulf ports to

Bay of Biscay ports.
Spanish Atlantic ports.

Mediterranean ports..
Barley in bulk:
North Atlantic ports to

Bay of Biscay ports--
Spanish Atlantic ports.

1,000 1,000 1,000

16. 90
16. 14
17. 79

16. 63 15. 88 17, 79

5
5

1,000 1,000 1,000

15. 27
14. 56
16. 78

14. 83 14. 15 16. 33

Mediterranean ports.
Gulf ports to-

Bay of Biscay ports.
Spanish Atlantic ports.
Mediterranean ports..

1,000
1,000
1,000

17.75 16. 96 18. 68

17. 46 16. 67 18. 68

Rates are based on following conditions:
From one port of loading to one port of discharge.

Loading and trimming expenses for account of vessel-discharging expenses for account of charterer.

Posted spot bunker fuel oil prices in effect July 15, 1957.

The above represent fair and reasonable voyage charter rates for the transportation of U.S. Government-sponsored commodities on U.S.-flag vessels moving in full cargo lots and do not apply to shipments for private account. Effective: July 15, 1957.

OFFICE OF SHIP OPERATIONS.

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