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B8
1963a

COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

CLARENCE CANNON, Missouri, Chairman GEORGE H. MAHON, Texas

BEN F. JENSEN, Iowa HARRY R. SHEPPARD, California

WALT HORAN, Washington ALBERT THOMAS, Texas

GERALD R. FORD, JR., Michigan MICHAEL J. KIRWAN, Ohio

HAROLD C. OSTERTAG, New York JAMIE L. WHITTEN, Mississippi

FRANK T. BOW, Ohio GEORGE W. ANDREWS, Alabama

CHARLES RAPER JONAS, North Carolina JOHN J. ROONEY, New York

MELVIN R. LAIRD, Wisconsin J. VAUGHAN GARY, Virginia

ELFORD A. CEDERBERG, Michigan JOHN E. FOGARTY, Rhode Island

GLENARD P. LIPSCOMB, California ROBERT L. F. SIKES, Florida

JOHN J. RHODES, Arizona OTTO E. PASSMAN, Louisiana

JOHN R. PILLION, New York JOE L. EVINS, Tennessee

WILLIAM E. MINSHALL, Ohio JOHN F. SHELLEY, California

ROBERT H. MICHEL, Illinois EDWARD P. BOLAND, Massachusetts SILVIO O. CONTE, Massachusetts WILLIAM H. NATCHER, Kentucky

WILLIAM H. MILLIKEN, JR., Pennsylvania DANIEL J. FLOOD, Pennsylvania

EARL WILSON, Indiana WINFIELD K. DENTON, Indiana

ODIN LANGEN, Minnesota TOM STEED, Oklahoma

WILLIAM HENRY HARRISON, Wyoming
JOSEPH M. MONTOYA, New Mexico BEN REIFEL, South Dakota
GEORGE E. SHIPLEY, Illinois

LOUIS C. WYMAN, New Hampshire
JOHN M. SLACK, JR., West Virginia
JOHN LESINSKI, Michigan
JOHN J. FLYNT, Georgia
NEAL SMITH, Iowa
ROBERT N. GIAIMO, Connecticut
JULIA BUTLER HANSEN, Washington
EDWARD R. FINNEGAN, Illinois
CHARLES S. JOELSON, New Jersey
JOSEPH P. ADDABBO, New York

KENNETH SPRANKLE, Clerk and Staff Director

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EXTENSION SERVICE LUKE M. SCHRUBEN, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR RALPH E. GROENING, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF MANAGE

MENT OPERATIONS

STATISTICAL REPORTING SERVICE JOHN J. KAMINSKI, CHIEF, DIVISION OF BUDGET AND FINANCE,

OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT SERVICES

AGRICULTURAL STABILIZATION AND CONSERVATION SERVICE HORACE D. GODFREY, ADMINISTRATOR CHARLES M. COX, ASSISTANT DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, STATE

AND COUNTY OPERATIONS FRED G. RITCHIE, DIRECTOR, CONSERVATION AND LAND USE

POLICY STAFF
C. ELY WICKHAM, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, CONSERVATION AND LAND

USE DIVISION
R. P. BEACH, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, MANAGEMENT
JOHN A. LANNON, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, BUDGET DIVISION

FARMERS HOME ADMINISTRATION
HOWARD BERTSCH, ADMINISTRATOR
BERNARD H. POLK, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR, REAL ESTATE

LOANS
JAMES T. HOLLIDAY, DIRECTOR, BUDGET DIVISION

OFFICE OF INFORMATION HAROLD R. LEWIS, ACTING DIRECTOR OF INFORMATION JAMES H. McCORMICK, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF INFORMATION FRANCIS A. SHEA, EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT TO THE DIRECTOR GALEN YATES, CHIEF, ADMINISTRATIVE MANAGEMENT DIVISION

FOREST SERVICE E. P. CLIFF, CHIEF M. M. NELSON, DEPUTY CHIEF C. W. HENDEE, DEPUTY CHIEF W. V. BENEDICT, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF FOREST PEST CONTROL H. B. MACK, BUDGET OFFICER CHARLES L. GRANT, DIRECTOR OF FINANCE AND BUDGET OFFICER

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INTRODUCTORY STATEMENT Mr. THOMAS. Gentlemen, will the committee please come to order? We shall now take up the items contained in House Documents Nos. 61, 63, and 82.

(NOTE.—Items contained in House Document No. 89 were considered subsequently.)

We have the privilege and pleasure of having as our first guests our able and distinguished friends from the Department of Agriculture, who will appear on behalf of the Extension Service, Statistical Reporting Service, Stabilization and Conservation Service, Farmers Home Administration, Office of Information, and the Forest Service.

Mr. Whitten and Mr. Horan are with us. We welcome them. We welcome the people from the Department of Agriculture. We are certainly delighted and honored to have Mr. Schruben, Assistant Administrator of the Extension Service. Welcome aboard. You have a lot of fine, able, and distinguished people with you.

Mr. Whitten, will you be good enough to lead the discussion for us and preside on these agricultural items!

Mr. WHITTEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

May I say that we appreciate the invitation to appear, since we deal with the Department in its usual activities. We are glad to cooperate in any way that we can. Having worked with all of you as long as we have, Mr. Horan and I have a high regard for the efforts made by this committee and its membership, not only here but elsewhere.

Turning now to the Department of Agriculture, if I may, Mr. Chairman, I would like to request that the various justifications and documents connected with agriculture be included in the record at the appropriate place; if you will see to that, Mr. Grant?

Mr. GRANT. Yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTEN. I believe the best way to handle this, Mr. Chairman, would be to deal first with Mr. Grant as budget officer, so that we might somewhat divide these requests into two or three different categories.

First, Mr. Grant, what part of this is for postal pay by departments or agencies and what part is for salary increases? I think those are two items under the general policy of the Congress that we must meet one way or another.

You might also differentiate between what part is being absorbed and what part you are requesting. Do that for the various agencies who have requests pending before the committee.

PAY ACT COSTS

Mr. THOMAS. May I interrupt you? I noticed in your justifications and we devoted quite a bit of time to these justifications-you set out that part of your supplemental for pay increase for 1963.

Mr. GRANT. Yes, sir.

Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Reporter, include pages 1 and 2 of the justification under the Pay Act.

(The pages follow :) PROPOSED SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS, TRANSFER AUTHORIZATIONS, AND

LIMITATION ADJUSTMENTS TO MEET INCREASED PAY Costs, 1963

[H. Doc. 63] Request: $6,255,800 appropriation, $6,072,750 transfer authorizations, and $195,000 increase in limitations.

PURPOSE AND NEED FOR ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATIONS AND TRANSFER AUTHORIZATIONS

The estimated cost of Pay Act increases under Public Law 87-793 for the Department of Agriculture in fiscal year 1963 is $28,056,019. It is proposed to meet $18,000,219 of these costs from funds presently available to the Department with the balance of $10,055,800 to be provided by supplemental appropriations. Of the $18 million to be met from existing funds $10,384,969 can be absorbed within funds now available to agencies of the Department with the additional absorption of $7,615,250 requiring authorization to transfer funds within the Department.

The proposed supplemental appropriations of $10,055,800 for increased pay costs are contained in House Documents Nos. 61 and 63 submitted on February 7 and 11, 1963, respectively. Total pay costs, absorptions, proposed transfers, and supplemental appropriations for the agencies included in each document are shown in the following tabulation:

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11. Doc. 61:

Extension Service..
Statistical Reporting Service-
Agricultural Stabilization and Con-

servation Service
Farmers Home Administration
Office of Information..
Forest Service.

Total, H. Doc. 61..
H. Doc. 63:

Agricultural Research Service.
Cooperative State Experiment Station

Service.
Farmer Cooperative Service
Soil Conservation Service-
Economic Research Service..
Agricultural Marketing Service.
Foreign Agricultural Service-
Commodity Exchange Authority.
Federal Crop Insurance Corporation.-
Rural Electrification Administration.
Office of the General Counsel.
National Agricultural Library.
General administration....

Total, H. Doc. 63....
Total, U.S. Department of Agricul-

ture..

3, 225, 175

58, 900
23, 900

4,785, 000

5,073, 539

58,900

24, 182 4,960, 000

385, 000 2, 557, 187

249, 900

41,000 213,000 440, 225 168,000

36, 300

265, 090 14, 472, 323

282 175,000

28, 000 1, 222,587

3,300

357,000
1, 334, 600

246, 600
41,000

58, 900 24, 182 175,000

385,000 2, 557, 187

249, 900 41,000 213,000 440, 225 168,000 36, 300 265, 090

1 213,000

2, 800 121, 240 2, 143, 773

440, 225
168,000

33, 500
143, 850

6,072, 750

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1 Requires increase of $195,000 in limitation on amount of premium income that may be used for admin. istrative expenses.

ABSORPTION OF PAY ACT COSTS

Mr. THOMAS. You are using the pay increase as a base in your regular 1964 estimates. We are not concerned with that in this subcommittee. We want to adopt as a policy very careful scrutiny on all supplementals. Practically every agency in the Government is to be included in this bill. You have 3 full months to go in fiscal year 1963—all of April, all of May, and all of June. We know from long experience that the turnover in Government service will average out, department by department, between 16 and 17 percent per year for all reasons—death, resignation, transfer, et cetera. We shall go carefully into everybody's request and require as a minimum a 5-percent reduction in your supplemental request for pay increases and we hope that you can make it even larger than 5 percent. We do not want you to fill some vacancies and we do not want you to fire anybody. We do not want you to cut down on any of your activities. We want you to be very careful.

Go ahead. Thank you, sir.
Mr. GRANT. All right, sir.

There are certain items in the Department where the postal costs are such that they could not be absorbed without detriment to the program.

On a full-year basis for the items concerned, this would amount to $726,500, but for the fiscal year 1963 the supplemental estimates are $358,100, all of which is proposed to be transferred from other appropriations.

Mr. W'HUITTEN. That is your estimate as to the part you cannot absorb, the postal costs as separate from the pay costs.

Mr. GRANT. Yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTEN. For the pay act increases, how much would that total for the fiscal year 1963, and how much are you absorbing under the proposal?

My questions were merely to make the record and does not indicate the attitude of the committee.

Mr. GRANT. Total pay act costs in 1963 for the Department of Agriculture under all funds is $28,056,019, and of that we are absorbing within available funds, including the requested transfers, $18,000,219, resulting in supplemental appropriations requested of $10,055,800.

Mr. WHITTEN. That in total is what you are including in your request here?

Mr. GRANT. Yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTEN. In the table would you break it down so that we might have the various amounts by agency?

Mr. GRANT. Yes, sir: I have a table on that.

Mr. WHITTEN. You treat them all alike so far as absorption and so far as the amount requested? In other words, have you taken your $18 million absorption and spread it equally through the Department or have you applied it to some and left others where they depended entirelv upon the appropriation ?

Mr. GRANT. No, Mr. Chairman. It has not been handled uniformly. Mr. WHITTEN. Why?

Mr. GRANT. There are some items where, for instance, the activity is financed in part from fees and the cost can be absorbed by increasing

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