the 21st Century with magnetic fusion, and I didn't mean to belittle, and I am sorry if I did.

I think some real sound scientific progress has been made in the field of magnetic fusion over the past 25 years. And I happen to be one that believes that over the next decade, two decades, or perhaps less, we will understand and overcome some of the physical principles that have kept us from really making that last step. I think Tokamaks are a possibility. I think the magnetic mirrors are a possibility. I think we have made some real strides in that area, and I think we will get there.

I think we will get there in inertial fusion, also, [deleted].

We have a long way to go, just like the people in the magnetic fusion program had a long way to go twenty years ago when they said it was just around the corner. We're trying to restrain this over-optimism, where somebody will want to start throwing money at it, when it really is not quite ready for that.

Mr. RUDD. I am frankly very afraid we are well behind the Soviets in the space warfare technology we were just discussing. That really disturbs me. I won't belabor this point. I am going to, as soon as I can find the time, redo that trip and go to Livermore, Los Alamos, and Sandia and anywhere else that is necessary to see what kind of strides we have made in five years.

Mr. ROSER. Excellent. If I may pick up on that, there are two things I would like to say before we leave, Mr. Chairman. One is, it has been a pleasure to be with you. I hope that as many of you as possible will make the effort and go see the laboratories, the production complex, the test complex.

I am very proud of those facilities. I brought some hardware along with me this morning. If any of you have time, I would be delighted for you to stop and look at it. We will give you whatever explanations we can, and we will try to have it available when we brief you this afternoon, Mr. Rudd.

Thank you very much.

Mr. FAZIO. Thank you very much, Secretary Roser.

There will be several additional questions for the record.

Mr. ROSER. Thank you.

Mr. FAZIO. I would like to thank you and your deputies for the presentations you have made today. We appreciate it very much and look forward to seeing you again.

Questions for the Record

INERTIAL CONFINEMENT FUSION

Mr. BOLAND. Critics of the Inertial Confinement Fusion (ICF) program charge that not enough basic physics is being done in the glass laser area. Since Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL) is currently precluded from conducting experiments because of the construction of a new facility, where is the needed basic physics work being conducted?

General HOOVER. The glass laser program at LLNL is moving aggressively to obtain basic physics data at power levels and wavelengths which are not available anywhere else in the world. Specifically, recognition of the importance of obtaining data using

"green" light, 0.5 micrometer, at an energy level of 5 to 15 kilojoules prompted a concerted effort to bring on-line at LLNL two beams of NOVA, called NOVETTE, as soon as possible. This effort necessitated the shutdown of the older laser facilities ARGUS and SHIVA so that NOVETTE could be made operational more rapidly. KMS Fusion (KMSF) is providing support to LLNL in the glass laser experiments program by performing green light experiments at low energy levels-less than one kilojoule. Other basic physics data are provided in the glass laser program by the University of Rochester, the Naval Research Laboratory, and other university and industrial contractors.

Mr. BOLAND. What role do you see being played by each of the other participants in the program?

General HOOVER. Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) is investigating the feasibility of using carbon dioxide (CO2) lasers for inertial fusion. CO2 lasers have the potential benefits to the ICF program of high efficiency, scalability to high energies, and a repetitive pulse capability. An extensive program of target interaction experiments is currently underway using the HELIOS laser operating at an energy of 8 kilojoules. The goal of the HELIOS program is to obtain an understanding of target interaction physics using CO2 laser light and to develop attractive target concepts in preparation for experiments with the 40 kilojoule ANTARES laser system which will be operational in late fiscal year 1983.

The role of Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque (SNLA) is to exploit the rapidly developing technology of pulsed power generators for the inertial fusion application. [Deleted.] The generators can provide very large energy pulses, but require intensive development to focus the beams onto a target. Current emphasis is on achievement of major focusing milestones using the Particle Beam Fusion Accelerator-I (PBFA-I) and on the design of the next generation facility, PBFA-II.

[Deleted.] KMSF also has extensive capability in target fabrication and provides inertial fusion targets for its own laser experiments and for many of the other laboratories in the national program.

The University of Rochester is concentrating its efforts on an assessment of the feasibility of the direct-illumination approach to inertial fusion using glass lasers. Drive-uniformity experiments are being performed in spherical geometry with the 24-beam OMEGA laser operating at an energy of 3 kilojoules, and interaction physics studies are being conducted in planar geometry with the Glass Development Laser (GDL) system. The National Laser Users Facility provides both of these laser systems to the university and industrial communities for use in inertial fusion and other experiments.

The Naval Research Laboratory uses the PHAROS glass laser to perform direct-illumination basic physics experiments in planar geometry. This program is concentrating on a study of the critical physics elements necessary to achieve inertial fusion conditions.

Mr. BOLAND. Last year Secretary Edwards testified before Congress that the most critical problems facing the Department of Energy's (DOE) defense program was the recruitment of scientists and engineers. Since the ICF program has long been regarded as an important avenue to bring new talent into the defense pro

grams, why has the Administration continually cut back the operating funds in this important program?

General HOOVER. The operating funds for the ICF program have been reduced in keeping with the Administration's position for fiscal restraint. However, we are proceeding with a vigorous research program in glass lasers-NOVA and support contracting facilities; gas laser-ANTARES; and light ion beams-PBFA-II. With the reduced level of support, the extent to which we can bring new talent into the program has been reduced. We are expecting to maintain the current program thrust over the next five years unless there is a breakthrough based on new experimental results.

Mr. BOLAND. What is the importance of the nonclassified program? What nonclassified results have there been in the last year? General HOOVER. [Deleted.] Some examples of the important results that have been obtained during the last year in the nonclassified target experiments program are: significant progress in experiments on the OMEGA laser at the University of Rochester toward achieving the necessary laser beam uniformity necessary for directly driven targets; experiments on the CHROMA laser at KMSF which have demonstrated that higher fuel compressions can be obtained with cryogenic targets than with gas-filled targets; and the Naval Research Laboratory results on target acceleration uniformity and interaction physics, which have been extended to the four kilojoule energy level in an experiment on the SHIVA laser at LLNL.

Mr. BOLAND. The Administration has continually criticized the ICF program's emphasis on the construction of large facilities at the expense of basic physics. If this is such a concern, why does the Administration continue to reduce the operating funds which would be used for basic physics experiments?

General HOOVER. The total funding for the ICF program has been reduced in keeping with the Administration's position on fiscal restraint. The current reduction in operating funds is related to the need to continually adjust the balance between operating funds, which are used to perform experiments with available facilities, and construction funds for new facilities to obtain vital data at higher power levels. Over the next few years, these data must be obtained from three major new facilities: ANTARES at Los Alamos, NOVA at Lawrence Livermore, and PBFA-II at Sandia. The timetable for these facilities requires a slight "stretch-out" of the operating program in order to maintain the balance between acquisition of data at the relatively low power levels of current facilities and the need to move as rapidly as construction schedules and new driver technology will allow to the larger facilities.

Mr. BOLAND. The stated long-range objective of the ICF program is to provide an alternative energy source. What progress is being made toward achievement of this goal?

General HOOVER. The ICF program is currently working toward obtaining an understanding of inertial fusion physics for the interaction of laser and particle beam drivers with targets. This understanding is helpful to both the near-term military application goals of the ICF program as well as the long-range energy objective. Specifically, when an adequate physics understanding has been devel

oped based on experiments to be performed in the next few years with NOVA-glass laser, ANTARES-carbon dioxide laser, and PBFA-II-light ion generator, it should be possible to project the driver-target requirements for ignition, breakeven, and high-gain. Knowledge of these requirements is a prerequisite for an energy development program.

Mr. BOLAND. What is the expectation of achieving "ignition" on each of the major facilities now under construction?

General HOOVER. Defining energy requirements for ignition is the major goal of the ICF program, as it yields a quantum increase in understanding of the ultimate applications of ICF for both military and energy purposes. It is unlikely that any of the major facilities now under construction will achieve ignition. Neither ANTARES nor NOVA is thought to have ignition-level energies. PBFA-II is energy-rich, but must demonstrate the requisite beam focusing on target. However, each facility will establish a broad data base which will accurately define target ignition energy requirements. This base will then permit a high confidence fiscal year 1986 assessment of future ICF goals.

Mr. BOLAND. What is the schedule for the major milestones of the ICF program?

General HOOVER. Major milestones of the ICF program encompass both driver development and target performance. In fiscal year 1983, driver development major milestones include activation of NOVETTE, with an energy equivalent to two NOVA beamlines; activation of ANTARES; and establishing final design for PBFA-II. In fiscal year 1985, these major milestones include activation of NOVA, having 10 beamlines; and PBFA-II activation.

Key integrated target experiments using these facilities will be accomplished in the fiscal year 1983-1986 period. The common goal of these experiments is the establishment of the necessary data base to permit an accurate definition of target ignition requirements. This crucial understanding will permit a fiscal year 1986 major program decision on future ICF goals.

Mr. BOLAND. [Deleted.]

General HOOVER. [Deleted.]

ATOMIC ENERGY DEFENSE ACTIVITIES

OTHER ACTIVITIES

Mr. BEVILL. How will the Verification and Control Technology operating expenses be used?

Mr. ROSER. Fiscal year 1983 operating expenses will be used to support two general kinds of activities: detection technology and analytical support efforts. The detection technology efforts have as their goal the fabrication and/or the development of technical systems which can detect nuclear weapons activities. The major detection technology activity is the spaceborne sensor program which conducts research, development, testing, engineering, fabrication, and operational support of nuclear explosion detection sensors which ride on various satellite systems. The single activity accounts for more than 50 percent of our operating expenses. Other detection technology efforts include research and development ac

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tivities aimed at determining whether it is possible to detect nuclear weapon activities such as underground testing by monitoring seismic, atmospheric, or other physical phenomena. These other activities utilize almost 30 percent of our operating expenses.

The analytical support activities provide technical analyses of arms control, foreign weapon, proliferation, and export control/ technology transfer issues. In conducting these activities, our program relies primarily on the technical expertise developed under the U.S. nuclear weapons program. Because DOE is the Nation's preeminent source of nuclear weapon technical expertise, the anaÎytical support activities are vital not only to the DOE's role in national security policy development and implementation but also to other Government agencies' roles in these areas. [Deleted.]

I will provide for the record details of how the fiscal year 1983 operating expenses will be allocated.

Mr. BEVILL. What contractors are utilized to carry out this program?

Mr. ROSER. The vast majority of the Verification and Control Technology program is performed by the three DOE weapon laboratories: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Los Alamos National Laboratory, and Sandia National Laboratories. To a lesser extent, we also rely on Argonne National Laboratory, Pacific Northwest Laboratory, Oak Ridge, and several other DOE contractors for their specialized expertise.

Mr. BEVILL. What are the primary diferences between the fiscal year 1982 and fiscal year 1983 Verification and Control Technology activities?

Mr. ROSER. This program will not be undertaking any new initiatives in fiscal year 1983. In comparison to prior-year efforts, the primary differences in the detection technology area will be in spaceborne and seismic efforts. In response to Department of Defense