Mr. WHITEHEAD. Mr. Chairman, it depends greatly on how the statute provides that those funds go to the local stations. I think the way this Administration is proposing to handle this on a formal basis, as a statutory right, based on the size of the stationshows that the administration is not trying to influence local stations on an individual basis, or on a collective basis. Mr. MACDONALD. I think one thing every administration forgets is that they come and go, but the Congress stays here. There is a continuity here, there is not much continuity downtown. Are you suggesting you want the Federal Government to give directly to local stations direct funds? Mr. WHITEHEAD. We are proposing that the funds be given to the Corporation, and that the Corporation disburse them in accordance with the formula written in the statute. Mr. MACDONALD. I have written into the bill the amount of 30 percent. Do you have any objection to that? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I have no objection to a 30-percent formula. But, as I said, I think it should increase over the years, rather than staying constant, and I think that the mechanism under which the funds are disbursed should be written into the statute, rather than being handled by the Corporation staff. Mr. MACDONALD. In your opinion, who should handle the disbursement, the President or you, or Dean Burch, who? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I think it is fine to have the Corporation for Public Broadcasting do it. I think a large part should be done according to statute, which ultimately gives the Congress the say about who gets it and how much goes to each applicant. Mr. MACDONALD. Thank you, Mr. Tiernan. Mr. TIERNAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Whitehead, I welcome you to the committee. In response to the inquiry made by my colleague from California, Mr. Van Deerlin, in reference to your testimony before the Appropriations Committee on May 13, 1971, you clearly indicated that you were prepared to present to the Congress by July a long-term financing plan. That would have been in July of 1971. Now, today you come before us, and I certainly was not totally impressed by your response to the question of my colleague, and you say the reasons you have not submitted a long-range financing plan are not devious or complex. If your comments are not devious, why have you not presented a long-range plan of financing for a Corporation for Public Broadcasting? Have you changed since May of 1971, up to today? Mr. WHITEHEAD. No; the reason is not complex or devious. The reason is simply that in exploring the issues, and exploring the alternatives, and considering what is at stake here, we discovered that the problems were complex. In many cases they were subtle and they deserved most serious attention. Mr. TIERNAN. Just a moment. Let me just go back and read your statement. You say in your statement to this committee today that the reasons "we have not submitted a long-range finance plan are neither complex nor devious." Now, you tell me it is not the plan, but it is the reasons. Now, which is it? Mr. WHITEHEAD. We may have a semantic problem. Mr. Tiernan, I am saying the reason we did not submit the bill was that we discovered the issues we were dealing with were more fundamental and more complex than we thought. Mr. TIERNAN. Mr. Whitehead, you had those ideas before you since 1969. In fact, you know the history of the bill since you claim to be the adviser to the President, and it was an administration bill, and you must know that bill provided for a 3-year authorization. The House reported out a bill of 1 year. You certainly know what went on before our committee at that time; that we insisted it be 1 year to hold your feet to the fire, to make sure that a long-term financing plan would come up here. We backed off and compromised with the Senate and gave the Corporation a 2-year authorization. You testified before the Appropriations Committee, that you expected a plan to be referred to the Congress by July 1971. Now, that is last summer, and today you come up and give us reasons you have not submitted a long-range financing plan. I assume you cooperated with the FCC on a long-range financing plan? Mr. WHITEHEAD. Yes; we discussed it with them. Mr. TIERNAN. You discussed it with them? Mr. WHITEHEAD. Yes. Mr. TIERNAN. I cannot understand the problem. You do not seem to be able to submit any reasons. You say they are not complex, they are not devious. Mr. WHITEHEAD. I said, Mr. Tiernan, the reason we did not submit the bill at that time was that we discovered the issues with which we were dealing were complex. Mr. TIERNAN. What issues? Mr. WHITEHEAD. Questions about the balance within the system. Mr. TIERNAN. The questions about the balance between the system; is that what is bothering you? Mr. WHITEHEAD. That is one of the important issues. Mr. TIRENAN. Is it bothering you? Mr. WHITEHEAD. Yes, sir. Mr. TIERNAN. It is bothering anybody else, is it bothering the FCC? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I cannot speak for the FCC. Mr. TIERNAN. Who are you talking about meeting with with regards to developing this plan? Tell us specifically who you are talking about? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I am talking about representatives of the local stations, both individually and the National Association of Educational Broadcasters, their officials, and members of the Corporation Board and staff. Mr. TIERNAN. Representatives of the local radio stations? Mr. TIERNAN. One at a time. You are saying the representatives of the local radio stations? Mr. WHITEHEAD. Yes. Mr. TIERNAN. Is that a local radio station licensee, or an association they have; which is it? Mr. WHITEHEAD. Both, sir. Mr. TIERNAN. You talked to both? Mr. WHITEHEAD. That is right. Mr. TIERNAN. For the record, who did you speak to that represents the local station licensees? Mr WHITEHEAD. I talked to officials from National Public Radio. Mr. TIERNAN. Who did you speak to? Mr. WHITEHEAD. To the National Association of Educational Broadcasters. Mr. MACDONALD. If the gentleman would yield, why don't you just name the people you talked to, instead of giving a broad definition of people; why don't you name people you talked to? Mr. WHITEHEAD. Mr. Chairman, in some cases, I do not remember the names of these people. Mr. MACDONALD. Can you supply it for the record? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I would be pleased to do so. Mr. MACDONALD. Without objection, it will be inserted into the record. How many discussions did you have with those representing the local station licenses? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I would say at least five or 10. Mr. MACDONALD. The National Association of Educators, is that the group that represents the educational TV stations? Mr. WHITEHEAD. That is right. Mr. MACDONALD. Educational broadcasters? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I do not remember the precise number of meetings I have had. I would be pleased to submit that for the record. Mr. MACDONALD. I would appreciate that, because it seems only recently have we had any indication of any dissatisfaction from your office with regards to the means of financing local stations. With objection, that will be inserted into the record. (The following information was received for the record:) MEETINGS BETWEEN PUBLIC BROADCASTING OFFICIALS AND MR. WHITEHEAD- During the period September, 1970 through January, 1972, Mr. Whitehead met personally on at least five separate occasions with officers and directors of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, on at least three separate occasions with officials and directors of the National Association of Educational Broadcasters, once with directors of National Public Radio, once with the Public TV Managers Council, and over 15 times with representatives of individual public broadcast station licensees. Moreover, Mr. Whitehead met with representatives of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting while he was a Special Assistant to the President, prior to his appointment as Director of OTP. In addition, staff members of OTP have met many times with the staffs of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the National Association of Educational Broadcasters, and individual public broadcast stations. Mr. Whitehead met personally with representatives of the following public broadcasting organizations and entities: Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Children's Television Workshop. National Association of Educational Broadcasters. Joint Council on Educational Television. National Public Radio. KUAT, Tucson, Ariz. Maryland Educational Network, Owings Mills, Md. WKNO, Memphis, Tenn. WQED/WQEX, Pittsburgh, Pa. Nebraska Educational Network, Lincoln, Nebr. Kentucky Educational Network, Lexington, Ky. KLRN, Austin, Tex. WCET, Cincinnati, Ohio. KTEH-TV, Santa Clara County, Office of Education, Santa Clara, Calif. KCET, Los Angeles, Calif. KERA, Dallas, Tex. Telecommunications Center, Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio. WOSU-Radio, Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio. WETA, Washington, D.C. Television Unit, Purdue University, Lafayette, Ind. Educational Broadcasting Corp., WNET, New York, N.Y. Mr. MACDONALD. Now, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, it has a Board of Directors, I assume it has an established policy for the Corporation? Mr. WHITEHEAD. That is correct. Mr. MACDONALD. And this Corporation, their chief officer is Mr. Macy, the person who carries out their policy? Mr. WHITEHEAD. That is right. Mr. MACDONALD. And the gentleman in charge of the Commission, the Carnegie report, he is Dr. Killian? Mr. WHITEHEAD. Dr. Killian is a member of the Board of the Corporation. Mr. MACDONALD. He was vice president at one time of the Corporation? Mr. WHITEHEAD. No. Mr. MACDONALD. In any event, those are all Presidential appointees? Mr. WHITEHEAD. That is right. Mr. MACDONALD. Has the President made any appointments to that Board? Mr. WHITEHEAD. Yes; he has. Mr. MACDONALD. How many has he made? Mr. WHITEHEAD. He has made eight. Mr. MACDONALD. Of the 15? Mr. WHITEHEAD. That is correct. Mr. MACDONALD. And those eight members that were appointed, did you have anything to do with regards to the screening or recommendation of those gentlemen? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I was involved in making the recommendations. Mr. MACDONALD. As the adviser to the President on Telecommunications, I would assume you had a large hand in recommending members to that Board? Mr. WHITEHEAD. You might say so. Mr. MACDONALD. Prior to the speech before the Association of Educational Broadcasters, had you made any public pronouncement with regards to your concern with the balance between the national and local broadcasting? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I do not believe so. Mr. MACDONALD. And that was made when? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I do not remember the date. I believe it was in October. Mr. MACDONALD. October 1971? Mr. WHITEHEAD. That is right. Mr. MACDONALD. Now, you also in response to an inquiry by my colleague from Ohio, Mr. Brown, said you have not seen the ruling made yesterday by the FCC; is that correct? Mr. WHITEHEAD. That is correct. Mr. MACDONALD. Under the transmittal letter from the President to the Congress of February 9, 1970, "It is my hope, however, that the new office and the Federal Communications Commission would cooperate in achieving certain reforms in telecommunications policy, especially in their procedures for allocating portions of the radio spectrum for government and civilian use. . . ." and it goes on to another spectrum. You say to us you are not aware of what the ruling was that was made yesterday by the FCC? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I am aware of some of the provisions of it, but I have not seen the ruling. Mr. MACDONALD. Is it not a fact, that in August, when the FCC sent up the proposed ruling, that you were very, very much involved in November, and in working out a compromise with the CATV operators, and the broadcasters, which was not to the favor of the broadcasters? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I would not say who it favored but I was involved in working out an agreement. Mr. MACDONALD. Was your compromise substantially accepted by the FCC? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I don't know. I would have to look at the new rules! I would hope it is. Mr. MACDONALD. You are telling us that you did not know the ruling that was going to be made by the FCC? Mr. WHITEHEAD. I do not take part in the activities of the Commission. Mr. MACDONALD. Was there any discussions with you prior to yesterday and after November with regards to that rule? Mr. WHITEHEAD. Discussions with whom? Mr. MACDONALD. With the FCC, or the Chairman of the Commission? Mr. WHITEHEAD. Yes; there were. Mr. MACDONALD. And you were not told what the ultimate ruling was going to be, and you have to read it, and you have to study it; is that correct? Mr. WHITEHEAD. That is right. Mr. MACDONALD. Why would you be involved in those things? |