Question was raised this morning as to what move of personnel to Davis-Monthan will be called for in the cost estimates. We double checked this afternoon and find they have the figures in the material given.

Mr. COURTNEY. This record is void on that subject. This committee must answer to the question that you are moving let's say 100pick a number, 100-officers of various grades. We have just finished increasing their pay, their flight allowances and all the other inducements seeking to keep people in the service. Now you are going to move them suddenly and on order to Monthan. How many houses are available for them in Government housing? What facilities are available for them and what can this community absorb? Are they going to have to drive 60 miles, 20 miles, 10 miles? What can the community absorb and what will be the prices? I point out to you the record is void on this subject.

Colonel LEDBETTER. We got into a small discussion this morning with Mr. FISHER on this point and I have a correction to make. For example, Davis-Monthan has only 589 Wherry houses and 139 Lanham Act houses. There are 1,800 adequate rental civilian houses— Mr. COURTNEY. In the nearby community?

Colonel LEDBETTER. In the community, avaliable for military, or used by military at the present time, and 1,489 considered inadequate which are used by military at the present time.

My remarks, sir, pertaining to the availability of housing took all this into consideration, not just the onbase, and I gave the impression all housing was onbase housing. It is not.

Mr. COURTNEY. My point is that the community housing has not thus far been mentioned specifically.

Colonel LEDBETTER. That is right. It was considered. Occasionally we have no choice but to put people into places where there aren't any houses but we try our best to avoid it if the military requirements will allow us.

Mr. COURTNEY. You see what my point is with respect to the move to Monthan. Let's accept it on all the other approaches. The one unanswered question is this:

What about the housing? What about the obligation you are putting upon the personnel?

Colonel LEDBETTER. There are plenty of houses in that area.

Mr. COURTNEY. If you can supply that information and if you can tell us within limits of course, it must be forecast-whether or not the available housing is within the financial ability and competence of the personnel who are going to be placed there. There is no use saying they can stay in the Huntington Hotel in Pasadena.

Colonel LEDBETTER. No sir.

We have an Air Force regulation concerning this inadequacy problem. One reason for being inadequate is that it costs too much. But it is still listed. In other words, if an officer who receives $140 a month rental allowance were renting a house of $160 we would consider it inadequate even though he was renting it, but it is still counted as a house being used by military.

Mr. COURTNEY. That is right.

Then my point simply is this and I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, it would be important for your record and for the consideration-that

that information be a part of the total picture on which the committee's judgment might be formulated.

Colonel LEDBETTER. We can give you an example, to get away from the base closures. We consider many of our lowergrade airmen in the Washington area are in inadequate housing.

Mr. HARDY. You have used over the years as justification for building Capeharts, and it is the screwiest justification the military ever came up with.

Colonel LEDBETTER. When they close a base on them or they have to move and can't sell, the loss is to the individual as Mr. Kilgore indicated and it is quite a serious loss.

Mr. COURTNEY. Morale of personnel is quite as important as saving

machines.

Colonel LEDBETTER. I agree 100 percent. There is no argument. Mr. COURTNEY. This is one void in the presentation thus far and I would hope it would be supplied. Certainly with respect to these two proposed moves.

Secretary MORRIS. We would be pleased to furnish this. (The information is as follows:)

FAMILY HOUSING STATUS AT DAVIS-MONTHAN AIR FORCE BASE

1. On July 1, 1962, Davis-Monthan Air Force Base will have available for occupancy by authorized personnel 6 adequate public quarters, 33 inadequate public quarters, 550 Wherry units, and 135 Lanham Act units. All of these units are located on base and are presently occupied, with the exception of 53 Wherry units vacant for rehabilitation. In addition, the local communities can provide approximately 1,800 adequate private rentals, 1,489 inadequate private units, and 176 trailers. Approximately 2,000 of these off-base units are currently occupied by military personnel. The remaining 1,300 units in the local area will be the primary source of housing for the incoming personnel from Laughlin Air Force Base.

2. The contemplated move will not occasion any additional housing cost to the Government as no new on-base housing is programed. All personnel not assigned to on-base housing will have to rent in the local area. The rental costs will be borne by the individual serviceman and will not accrue to the Government. The rental rates in the Davis-Monthan area are comparable to those in the Laughlin area, therefore, no significant difference in costs to the individual serviceman should result from the move.

3. After the move is completed together with the proposed reductions at Davis-Monthan, there will be a combined housing requirement at Davis-Monthan for some 2,650 families including the junior airmen requirement. This is an increase of less than 100 families over those currently being housed in the Davis-Monthan area, both on base and off base. The proposed move should incur no hardship to the transferred servicemen, either in finding a place to live or in increased housing cost, and no additional housing costs will accrue to the Government as no new housing is programed.

FAMILY HOUSING STATUS AT JAMES CONNALLY AIR FORCE BASE

1. Military family housing assets at James Connally Air Force Base, Tex., amount to 867 units, consisting of 366 Capehart units, 500 Wherry units, and 1 public quarters unit. The Wherry project was purchased from the private sponsor on September 1, 1958, and is now being rehabilitated to public quarters standards. No additional housing is planned for this base at this time.

2. Community support housing in the area (population about 130,000 with Waco, Tex., as the principal city) is very good. Military personnel presently occupy slightly more than 1.250 cffbase housing units, of which only about 100 units are reported to be inadequate. It is estimated that there are about 60 additional offbase units which are available and adequate, plus several hundred inadequate units.

3. In view of the exceptionally good community support, which is afforded by the Waco area, it appears that military personnel moving into this area from other locations would be able to obtain good housing at equal or lower rents than at their previous location. Moreover, in view of the substantial phasedown in the training load which is now occurring, the combined strength of the training staff at Connally after the move from Harlingen is completed will be only 3,175, which is 254 less than the strength now present at Connally. For this reason, no difficulties on housing at Connally are anticipated.

Mr. COURTNEY. I don't know what the facts will be or what the developments will be on the arsenal closings.

Mr. GAVIN. Along with the housing there are educational facilities, hospital facilities, and other facilities that are essential and necessary along with housing.

Mr. COURTNEY. That is right.

I assume when I mentioned housing, I assume you meant all community services.

Colonel LEDBETTER. As a rough rule, we have had as high as 12,000 people at the Davis Monthan Base. The incoming would be something less than 5,000 so you can see almost without looking that there would be plenty and in fact, a surplus.

Mr. COURTNEY. I express no opinion, but as far as this record is concerned it is void on the subject.

Colonel LEDBETTER. Specifically it was run out in more detail than this.

Mr. HÉBERT. Thank you very much for your cooperation this afternoon. We will see you tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock.

(Whereupon at 2:45 p.m., the committee adjourned to reconvene at 10 a.m., Friday, July 14, 1961.)

CLOSING OF MILITARY BASES

FRIDAY, JULY 14, 1961

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,

SUBCOMMITTEE FOR SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS,

EXECUTIVE SESSION

WASHINGTON, D.C.

The subcommittee met at 10 a.m., the Honorable F. Edward Hébert (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Mr. HÉBERT. The committee will be in order.

Members of the committee, when we recessed yesterday we had concluded with the two installations in Texas.

Today we will take up the ordnance plants, starting with those in the West, and this afternoon we will take up those in the East.

It is the intention of the committee to conclude these hearings today if at all possible.

Now, I understand that Mr. Merrill, the Assistant Secretary of the Army, has a statement he would like to make.

Mr. Merrill.

Secretary MERRILL. Mr. Chairman, first I think Secretary Morris would like to make a very brief statement, if that is agreeable to you, sir.

Mr. HÉBERT. All right.

Mr. MORRIS. I would just like to say, Mr. Chairman, that yesterday my counterpart in Air Force had to be away and that was the reason I represented both the Air Force Secretary and Secretary of Defense. Today Mr. Merrill will lead the Army discussion of the problems. Mr. HÉBERT. However you want to conduct it, it is perfectly all right.

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Secretary MORRIS. Thank you, sir.

Secretary MERRILL. Mr. Chairman and members of the commit

Mr. HÉBERT. Excuse me, Mr. Merrill. I want to note Congressman Baldwin is here this morning, for the record; and who is coming, to follow now, Mr. Courtney?

Mr. COURTNEY. Congressman Tollefson.

Mr. HÉBERT. Congressman Tollefson will be here this morning. Mr. Baldwin, we explained the procedure yesterday, when Mr. Fisher and Mr. Kilgore were here. It is the same procedure as I explained to you privately. The Department will make its presentation on the installation in which you are interested, and then you will be able to ask any questions you desire.