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Mr. JENNINGS. May I state the reason, so far as the district is concerned !

Senator Dill. I want to ask a question. Will you indicate on that map just where this All-American Canal is to run?

Mr. JENNINGS. It begins at the Laguna Dam on the Colorado River and follows down to the diversion at Andrada, then follows along the boundary line to a point opposite the sand hills, where it diverts to the northwest and runs through the sand hills, along through these sand hills to a point where a high-line canal is taken off for a pumping section on the east side of the Mesa. It then comes along the national boundary line, where the main high-line canal is taken off for the use of all this outside territory. Following that, it proceeds along the boundary line to the various intakes of the Imperial irrigation district, clear to the west side.

Senator DILL. What added advantages will there be to the owners of the land in the Imperial Valley section now irrigated that would justify them in paying the extra charge per acre which you have given ?

Doctor JENNINGS. The sole purpose is to get that canal system entirely within the United States, so that they may have the legal and physical control of their water supply.

Senator DILL. I want to know what added benefit there will be to the owners of land now irrigated by the present canal that would justify or induce them to pay $37.50 an acre more than they are paying now?

Doctor JENNINGS. The first one is, as I say, the getting of the water supply entirely on this side of the boundary line, where they will have the legal and physical control of it. The second one is that they will not have to operate under a Mexican arrangement which pledges them to allow the water to be diverted in Mexico before it comes back to the United States.

Senator DILL. That is an advantage to the country, but not to those individual users.

Doctor JENNINGS. All that includes an extra cost. And then in times of water shortage there is a further advantage in the fact that the water is diverted here and will be entirely within their control; there will be no delivery of any part of that in Mexico. It can all be used in the district on the district lands.

Senator Dill. The Imperial district has not taken any action to show their willingness to submit to Congress a guarantee to pay this added cost, have they?

Doctor JENNINGS. To pay the cost ? Senator Dill. Well, they have not taken any action, I say, by which they offer to pay the added cost on their own land?

Doctor JENNINGS. Only for their right to attach to the Lagoona Dam.

Senator DILL. Are there two All-American Canals there-two plans for all-American canals?

Doctor JENNINGS. No, sir. Senator Dill. Is that high-line canal essential to the Imperial Valley cultivated lands now?

Doctor JENNINGS. It enables them to build this project for about $6,000,000 less than it would if outside lands were not taken into consideration.

Senator DILL. But they could build along the border there straight to the Imperial Valley, could they not, without building the high-line canal?

Doctor JENNINGS. Yes, sir; and they are not charged with any part of the construction cost of the high-line canal.

Senator DILL. Is the present canal system a cement canal or wooden canal, or what kind of a canal is it?

Doctor JENNINGS. I could not definitely answer that question. I think it is mostly dirt.

Senator Dill. Is it proposed, in making the All-American Canal, to make it a cement canal ?

Doctor JENNINGS. There are two alternatives. One is a small cement canal.

Senator Dill. In submitting the system, is it to be submitted for a cement or dirt canal ?

Doctor JENNINGS. To be submitted on the figures submitted by the department, which is for a dirt canal. I would say, in answer to one of your other questions, however, that the Imperial Valley irrigation district have ratified that contract, if necessary, to build this All-American Canal.

Senator JOHNSON. By what proportionate vote-do you remember!

Doctor JENNINGS. About 4 to 1. The Secretary of the Interior required that that contract be submitted.

Senator DILL. By acres or by capita?
Doctor JENNINGS. Capita.
Senator ODDIE. What is the evaporation from the Salton Sea ?
Doctor JENNINGS. It is about 17 feet a year.

Senator ODDIE. What are the drainage conditions in the main portion of the Imperial Valley?

Doctor JENNINGS. I couldn't answer that question. I am above there, and I am not familiar with it.

Senator ODDIE. What are the drainage conditions in the Coachella Valley?

Doctor JENNINGS. Mr. Starhorn, who made the report, said in his report that there were no physical impediments to proper drainage. That involves some 38,000 acres of land that are not included in this 72,000 acres.

Senator ODDIE. Is there any slope to the land surrounding the Salton Sea

Doctor JENNINGS. Twenty feet to the mile.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions? Is Mr. Frisbie here! The program shows you are to discuss the subject of the All-American Canal jointly with Mr. Rose.

Mr. Friskie. I am prepared.

The CHAIRMAN. I am wondering if you would be able to shorten it. The committee wants to conclude the afternoon session at 15 minutes after 5. We can not run over until tomorrow. Will you and Mr. Rose agree to occupy three-quarters of an hour instead of an hour and 10 minutes?

Mr. FRISBIE. I think so; yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rose gave a very essential and informative statement before the hearings in Washington. Proceed and bear that in mind as far as you can. Tell who you are and what is your occupation.

STATEMENT OF CHARLES G. FRISBIE, REPRESENTING THE

IMPERIAL IRRIGATION DISTRICT, STACK BUILDING, LOS ANGELES, CALIF.

Mr. FRISBIE. I am a consulting engineer, and I have been requested by the Imperial irrigation district to present the subject of the All-American Canal.

The CHAIRMAX. Where is your office, and how long have you been active in your profession!

Mr. Frisbie. I have been active in my profession now about 18 years.

The CHAIRMAN. Where do you reside?

Mr. FRISBIE. Residing in Los Angeles at the present time. I have an office at 532 Stack Building. Over 10 years ago I made a study of the All-American Canal for the Imperial-Laguna Water Co., at that time making a preliminary survey. Later, in 1917, we made another survey, a more exhaustive survey for the same company. The data of that survey was presented in Washington at hearings before the Interior Department. Later the Imperial irrigation district became interested in the All-American Canal, and ultimately took over the interests of the Imperial-Laguna Water Co. At that time we made quite a thorough investigation of the canal and made a report. Two consulting engineers in this part of the country, the late E. F. Albertson, consulting engineer, of San Diego, and Mr. James W. Reagan, present head of the Los Angeles County Board of Flood Control, entered into the report. Then, several vears later, about 1923, we made another investigation over this line, considering a higher location for the All-American Canal.

The CHAIRMAN. Were those surveys made in cooperation with the Federal Government?

Mr. FRISBIE. In a way they were, yes. At the time the ImperialLaguna Water Co. made the second survey, they had a contract with the Interior Department, with the idea that this company would join with the Laguna Dam and build the All-American Canal in conjunction with the cooperation of the Interior Department. So that, in a way, the Government did have an interest in those original surveys and reports.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well, you may proceed with your statement.

Mr. FRISBIE. A good deal of the data that I was intending to present to this committee has already been presented through a previous speaker. I intended to outline the deplorable conditions in the Imperial Valley and the great necessity for the All-American Canal.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; the record is ample on that point, and you may omit that.

Mr. È RISBIE. I will omit that portion.
The CHAIRMAN. You may continue with your statement.

Mr. Frisbie. In our earlier surveys and reports we passed over practically the same line that the All-American Canal board surveved and adopted in its 1919 report; and we arrived at substantially the same conclusions at that time that this later report has adopted. So, in the talk today I am considering the All-American Canal from the standpoint of the report of the All-American Canal board of 1919, and also in connection with the Boulder Canyon Dam. The present heading, as you gentlemen know, is about half a mile north of the boundary line, and it is a very unsatisfactory heading, both from the standpoint of being able to divert the water, and also from the standpoint of taking in great quantities of silt, which causes them a great deal of annual expense. In this All-American Canal scheme we go to the Laguna Dam, divert the water at the west end of that dam, where it is possible to sluice out a great deal of the sand and silt that may come into the canal. If the river picks up much silt and sand after it leaves the Boulder Canyon, assuming that dam to be constructed, this heading will eliminate a great deal of that sand and silt, will put the head above the junction of the Gila River, where a great deal of the present silt now comes into the canal.

Under this plan it is proposed to enlarge that head. There is now an existing head at the west end of the Laguna Dam for the erection of the Yuma Reclamation project. It is proposed to extend the east silting channel upstream to give it sufficient capacity to extend the present head gates, to give them a skimming capacity that now exists, and then to enlarge the present Yuma main canal down to Syphon Drop to a capacity of 10,600 second-feet. At that point the water for the Yuma project will be dropped and carried off toward the east where it will serve the Yuma project, the water for the Imperial Valley being carried at the same grade toward the southwest, down to Pilot Knob.

The CHAIRMAN. How do they get the water across-siphon it under the river at Yuma ?

Mr. FRISBIE. Yes; they siphon it under the river at the present time. This would be simply the alteration of the present siphon that now exists. The canal would pass on from the siphon drop with a capacity of about 9,000 second-feet to Pilot Knob, where it would swing around to the south side of that rocky mountain, passing north of the boundary line for about a mile and a half to a series

a of ridges and washes. Then it will pass through about a mile of mesa—unbroken mesa, where the cut would be about 40 or 50 feet. Then it passes into the sand hill section, where it will go westerly for about a mile and then turn in a northwesterly direction up toward Government Gap; and then passing through Government Gap for a mile and a half; then passing through a sand ridge out onto the east side mesa.

Senator PHIPPS. What is the full extent of the sand hill district that would have to be traversed ?

Mr. FRISBIE. There would be a total, from the east side the sand hill to the west side, of about 101, miles, but only 6 miles of this is naturally subject to the blowing sand. In 1915, while we were making these surveys, we realized that if any difficulties would exist in the way of this canal it would be in the sand hill section. Accordingly, they made measurements of the movement of that drifting sand. We found that the main hills at that time, the large ridges, were fairly well fixed. They consisted of a fairly heavy sand that was not drifting to any extent; but the portion that was drifting was a series of light sands in dunes, some of which rested on the mesa and some of which were on the slopes of these high hills. Even on top of these dunes it had drifted toward the southeast there, and only a small portion of the sand out in that area was actually drifting. Accordingly, we made measurements on some of them to see what that drift amounted to.

It had been contended by some of the opponents of the All-American Canal that it would be impossible to maintain the canal in this section. We took measurements of several of the moving dunes out there and found that the higher dunes did not move as fast as the lower ones; that the wind blowing from the windward side sheared some of the sand off from the inclined slopes of the dunes and spilled it over the top on the leeward side. We found that the movement of these hills, after measuring them after two very severe wind storms, was the equivalent of a sand dune 6 feet high, moving 24 inches in 24 hours, but it was not the movement of the entire sand hill. We have those records from those old measurements available, and the statement that this sand would move at that rate is the result of all the maintenance.

Senator PHIPPS. About what mileage out of the ten-odd would require a covered canal ?

Mr. FRISBIE. The All-American Canal Board, in its report, considered that a covered canal was not necessary; that it was not necessary to line the canal; that if anything were necessary to eliminate this evil, they could line the canal and cut down a cross section of it and carry this sand away. But there is a pretty good velocity through this sand hill section, which the board thought at that time would practically carry that sand away. There is every reason to believe that that is a fact, from actual measurements, and from another canal that has been in existence in similar country for a great many years.

Senator PHIPPS. As an engineer, were you convinced that it would be feasible to conduct water in an open ditch through those sand hills?

Mr. FRISBIE. I absolutely was; and the longer I studied the problem the more convinced I am.

Senator Phipps. What dimensions would the cut be?

Mr. FRISBIE. The canal itself would have a dimension of about 8 feet on the bottom. There are several different proposed cross sections for the canal, and then it would slope up to about a 2-to-1 slope, up to the surface of the mesa, and there there would be 30-foot turn, and then slope up 2 to 1 to the top of these hills. There are a good many reasons why

Senator Phipps. What would be the height? You say 30 feet broad at the bottom in places. What would be the height?

Mr. FRISBIE. That would vary to quite a great extent. The profile of the All-American Canal is a very irregular and ragged profile. There are a few places where there would be a total cut of 125 to 130 feet. Most of the distance the cut would not be over 80 or 90; many places in through there only 40 or 50 feet.

Senator Phipps. But the average would be above a 50-foot cut?

Mr. FRISBIE. Yes; the average would be above a 50-foot cut. In considering the sand encountered in the All-American Canal we calculated the quantities that would blow into this canal from winds. We knew from the weather records down there that there were only

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