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all the power being developed in the world, but we think this thing should come first; that is all.

Senator PITTMAN. As I understand, then, your district wants to prevent the Diamond Creek Dam from being built and to go on fighting for the building of a Government dam at or near the Boulder Canyon site?

Mr. INGHAM. That is about our thought.

Senator ASHURST. In other words, you are entirely in favor of the proposition of the Government being the first authority on the river? Mr. INGHAM. We are absolutely in accord with that.

Senator ASHURST. Is that the view of this State?

Mr. INGHAM. You are getting too wide when you say the State. This part of the State is in favor of the Boulder Canyon Dam.

Senator ASHURST. Am I correct in assuming that this county is 100 per cent for Boulder Canyon storage dam and for the allAmerican canal?

Mr. INGHAM. Now, 100 per cent is pretty strong.

Senator ASHURST. It is nearly that?

Mr. INGHAM. Yes: it is pretty nearly that. We are human beings and we can't all agree, just like a dog fight, but the majority of us are for it.

Senator ASHURST. A large majority, from letters and telegrams I have received.

Mr. INGHAM. Yes; that is true.

Senator ODDIE. Has your committee taken into account the flood hazard from the Little Colorado and the Virgin Rivers in deciding on the Boulder Canyon dam?

Mr. INGHAM. Yes, sir; we have discussed those things. Now, you understand, we are not engineers. We understand that the Boulder Canyon dam will obviate this trouble.

Senator ASHURST. You say it is your understanding that the Boulder dam will obviate this trouble?

Mr. INGHAM. Oh, yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you finish, Mr. Ingham?

Mr. INGHAM. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. The next witness is J. E. Franklin, president of Yuma National Bank and representing Yuma mesa landowners, who will discuss "flood control."

STATEMENT OF J. E. FRANKLIN, PRESIDENT OF THE YUMA NATIONAL BANK, AND REPRESENTING YUMA MESA LANDOWNERS

Mr. FRANKLIN. Mr. Chairman, I speak particularly from the banking or financial interests in connection with flood control. We are particularly interested in acquiring flood control because it will make our securities or our land secure for our farmers. Our whole business our business life-is predicated on our farming operations in Yuma County. There is practically no mining and no other industry except the farming industry and its attendant occupations that go with it. The flood that was mentioned by Mr. Wisenerimmediately afterwards the loaning companies that had money here did not call their loans, but they did not renew the mortgages. In

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consequence, our farmers were put up against a very serious proposition of financing their land holdings and the banks were put in a position where they were unable to take care of the needs of the communities. We are a borrowing community. We have to have money for our farming operations. We are a new country, and our main source of supply of money. When we have trouble from floods they don't loan us the money. Consequently, we can not do the business that we should do. And the whole situation really resolves itself around a time when we can secure permanent relief, and that permanent relief can only be secured by building a flood-control dam. Where it may be built I am not to say. We want a flood-control dam and we want it just as soon as we can get it. The Colorado River is one of the most treacherous rivers in the United States. We never know when we are going to have floods, and we have to be continually on the alert, and that costs money.

The CHAIRMAN. What rate of interest does the borrower of money pay on the Yuma project?

Mr. FRANKLIN. On the lands, 8 per cent; 10 per cent commercial loans in the banks.

The CHAIRMAN. How does that compare with the rate of interest in Imperial Valley?

Mr. FRANKLIN. On lands it is the same; on commercial loans ordinarily we are 2 per cent higher.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. You are 2 per cent higher?

Mr. FRANKLIN. We are 2 per cent higher.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that because of the greater menace hanging over you here?

Mr. FRANKLIN. No, sir; because we are in Arizona, and they look on the money going into Arizona, going into Arizona as being in another State and its being more hazardous money for California.

The CHAIRMAN. Has any member of the committee any question? Senator PHIPPS. Mr. Chairman, I want to ask a question for some personal information. You are a resident here?

Mr. FRANKLIN. Yes, sir; I am.

Senator PHIPPS. In our hearings in Los Angeles I had occasion to ask one witness why the rate for domestic use of electricity in Los Angeles was 10 cents per kilowatt-hour. The reply, as I recall it, was that that was lower than the average, and that if I were paying for it in Yuma I would be paying double that rate. Do you happen to recall what your rate is for domestic use here?

Mr. FRANKLIN. Yes, sir; we pay 12 cents. He was mistaken if he said double.

Senator PHIPPS. The information that I obtained from another source and which I did not have an opportunity to check up was that in the Imperial Valley, in El Centro, the rate after reaching 90 kilowatt-hours consumption a month was 10 cents, with a 1-cent discount, making it 9 cents net, whereas, in Yuma, after passing 30 kilowatts it was 10 cents, but up to 30 kilowatts it was about 1212 cents.

Mr. FRANKLIN. Well, our average rate, I think, is 122 cents. We are served through what is considered one of the longest transmission lines in the world serving communities.

Senator PHIPPS. I may say that that is not information to me-
Mr. FRANKLIN. I realize that, sir.

Senator PHIPPS. Because I have been interested in that company from its inception, and I know of the connection being made into Yuma, although as I understand it, the company itself does not directly supply but supplies through some local company for distribution.

Mr. FRANKLIN. That is correct.

Senator PHIPPPS. Thank you very much.

Senator JOHNSON. Does the Federal Farm Loan Board loan money in this valley?

Mr. FRANKLIN. They do now; they have just come in in the last five years.

Senator JOHNSON. They do not in Imperial Valley, do they?
Mr. FRANKLIN. I think not; no, sir.

Senator JOHNSON. That is all.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to state to those present that this concludes the hearings. And on behalf of the committee I want to express our appreciation of the interest you have all shown in this important subject by staying with us to this late hour. We thank you for the courteous treatment shown the committee and for the good food you have given us. And on behalf of the committee I will say to you, Good night and best wishes.

(Whereupon the committee adjourned at 11.30 p. m., to meet in Phoenix, Ariz.)

COLORADO RIVER BASIN

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 2, 1925

UNITED STATES SENATE,

THE COMMITTEE ON IRRIGATION AND RECLAMATION,

Phoenix, Ariz.

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10 o'clock a. m., in the senate chamber, statehouse, Senator Charles L. McNary presiding.

Present: Senators McNary (chairman), Jones of Washington, Phipps, Kendrick, Pittman, Oddie, Shortridge, Dill, Johnson, and Ashurst.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. We are honored by the presence of Governor Hunt, of Arizona. Governor, the committee will be delighted to have you appear before us and make such statement as you may desire.

Gov. GEORGE W. P. HUNT. I am not going to appear before you here for the purpose of making any statement in regard to the matter which you are here to investigate, because we have plenty of people in Arizona who are very anxious to appear before you, whose knowledge of the subject is much more extensive than mine. But on behalf of the State of Arizona, as its executive, I welcome the Senators of the committee, and hope that in your deliberations such facts and figures will be laid before you as will leave with you when you depart a different impression of the Baby State.

We might be forward and presumptious. Being a baby State, like all other infants, we sometimes do cause trouble when we should not. Otherwise I imagine that you will find us all right.

We want to cooperate with all the rest of the basin States, and all that Arizona asks is that our rights be protected in the future. And we feel, Senators, that this committee of disinguished Senators from the Congress of the United States will listen to the prayer of the infant of our country, and when you get through with your deliberations that you will give us a benediction and will help us on our way to future prosperity.

The CHAIRMAN. Governor, won't you honor the committee by taking a chair here along the table?

Governor HUNT. Well, thank you, I will listen for a while.

The CHAIRMAN. The first witness is Mr. H. S. McCluskey, secretary to the governor.

STATEMENT OF H. S. McCLUSKEY, SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNOR OF ARIZONA

Mr. MCCLUSKEY. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, Arizona has been a State for about 12 years. During that time we have had to fight a World War. We have had to solve many internal problems, and we did not have the time nor the money nor the oppor

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