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I-A and sent to preinduction stations, we still do not close the door to the submission of new evidence. A dozen things might happen.

Mr. Case. I should think you would give the cheapest examination first, and then if they do not qualify you do not need to go any further with it.

INCREASE IN TRAVEL ITEMS

Why is it, with all other items under local boards reduced in your request for next year, your travel items should go up $80,000?

Colonel MITCHELL. We will move a larger number of men to preinduction stations in the next fiscal year than in the current year. That accounts for the entire $80,000 increase.

ESTIMATES FOR NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS, 1946 Mr. TABER. You have here a very peculiar set-up. When they sent the Budget up it showed $2,166,987 for 1945, and $1,457,872, a reduction of $700,000, in the departmental office. Then when you come to the set-up for your national headquarters it shows $636,000 for 1946. I just do not understand these figures at all.

General HERSHEY. Where did you get the first two figures you gave?

Mr. TABER. Out of the Budget.

Colonel MITCHELL. Other departmental services, sir, are under project No. 8.

Mr. Taber. What is that? Is that “Research and Statistics”? Colonel MITCHELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. TABER. This whole picture, if you add the overtime, practically runs about the same figure, about $1,000,000 less than the present year. But a lot of these figures, such as your national headquarters, are bigger than they were before, bigger than they are this year, if you add the overtime. The figures for State headquarters are bigger; the local boards just a little bit less. The conscientious objector item is up; the medical-survey program is away up. It does look like that activity is going to be a good deal smaller than it was, this coming year.

General HERSHEY. I do not know. Of course if you are not going to take 93,000 men a month it may be less, but if you are going to take somewhere around 93,000 men a month, it is not going to be less than it was this year on the inductions.

Mr. Taber. Your inductions do not run more than that this year,

General HERSHEY. The monthly average through March was approximately 92,000, but if the calls for April, May, and June are filled the average through June will be almost 100,000.

do they?

MONTHLY EXPENDITURES

Mr. Taber. I would like to have you submit a memorandum indicating the expenditures month by month during 1945, and as far as you can the expenditures projected the rest of the way.

General HERSHEY. All right, sir.
Mr. Taber. And a picture of the same sort of thing for the next

fiscal year.

General HERSHEY. All right, sir. (The information is as follows:)

SELECTIVE SERVICE SYSTEM

1. Actual obligations July 1944 through March 1945, fiscal

year 1945:

July 1944..
August 1944.
September 1944-
October 1944.
November 1944.
December 1944
January 1945.
February 1945.

March 1945.-
2. Estimated obligations April 1945 through June 1945, fiscal year

1945:

April 1945.
May 1945.
June 1945.

$5, 213, 658. 35 4, 634, 871. 47 4, 457, 227. 38 5, 575, 330.00 4, 384, 853. 68 4, 332, 507. 37 6, 370, 745. 73 5, 396, 013. 64 5, 731, 469. 27

5, 467, 774. 37 5, 467, 774. 37 5, 467, 774. 37

Total obligations fiscal year 1945.

62, 500, 000. 00 3. It is estimated that for the fiscal year 1946, the Selective Service System, will

obligate fund at the rate of $4,541,666.66 per month, excluding overtime payments.

RECEIPTS FROM SALARIES OF CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS COVERED

INTO THE TREASURY

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Along that line, General, according to the Budget break-down, from which I take it you exclude overtime from your 1946 figures, the overtime for 1945 comes to $7,820,000. If you add in the unexpended balance of $425,000, according to my figures, it gives you $8,250,000. Mr. TABER. It makes it more money than they had this year.

Mr. WIGGLESWORth. It makes it practically the same for the 2 years, I would think. No; it is more money than you had this year.

Colonel MITCHELL. I do not follow you on that, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Taking the Budget break-down which we have here, it shows under “Departmental” an overtime of $377,482 for 1945, and then it shows overtime of $6,450,398. The sum of those two items is $7,827,000-plus; and you told us you had an unexpended balance of $425,000.

General HERSHEY. That is not an unexpended balance. That reverts directly to the Treasury.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. So you did not use it?
General HERSHEY. It does not go through our appropriation at all.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I do not understand that.
General HERSHEY. Those funds go directly to the Treasury.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Where did they come from originally?

General HERSHEY. From the work projects of these conscientious objectors that are assigned to dairy farms.

fr. WIGGLESWORTH. Who provided the money?

General HERSHEY. If a conscientious objector works for a man and gets, say, $135 a month, he is allowed $15 for clothing and miscellaDeous personal expenses. The other part of it goes into the Federal Treasury.

I-A and sent to preinduction stations, we still do not close the door to the submission of new evidence. A dozen things might happen.

Mr. Case. I should think you would give the cheapest examination first, and then if they do not qualify you do not need to go any further with it.

INCREASE IN TRAVEL ITEMS

Why is it, with all other items under local boards reduced in your request for next year, your travel items should go up $80,000?

Colonel MITCHELL. We will move a larger number of men to preinduction stations in the next fiscal year than in the current year. That accounts for the entire $80,000 increase.

ESTIMATES FOR NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS, 1946 Mr. Taber. You have here a very peculiar set-up. When they sent the Budget up it showed $2,166,987 for 1945, and $1,457,872, a reduction of $700,000, in the departmental office. Then when you come to the set-up for your national headquarters it shows $636,000 for 1946. I just do not understand these figures at all.

General HERSHEY. Where did you get the first two figures you gave?

Mr. TABER. Out of the Budget.

Colonel MITCHELL. Other departmental services, sir, are under project No. 8.

Mr. TABER. What is that? Is that “Research and Statistics”? Colonel MITCHELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. Taber. This whole picture, if you add the overtime, practically runs about the same figure, about $1,000,000 less than the present year. But a lot of these figures, such as your national headquarters, are bigger than they were before, bigger than they are this year, if you add the overtime. The figures for State headquarters are bigger; the local boards just a little bit less. The conscientious objector item is up; the medical-survey program is away up. It does look like that activity is going to be a good deal smaller than it was, this coming year.

General HERSHEY. I do not know. Of course if you are not going to take 93,000 men a month it may be less, but if you are going to take somewhere around 93,000 men a month, it is not going to be less than it was this year on the inductions.

Mr. Taber. Your inductions do not run more than that this year, do they?

General HERSHEY. The monthly average through March was approximately 92,000, but if the calls for April, May, and June are filled the average through June will be almost 100,000.

MONTHLY EXPENDITURES

Mr. TABER. I would like to have you submit a memorandum indicating the expenditures month by month during 1945, and as far as you can the expenditures projected the rest of the way.

General HERSHEY. All right, sir.
Mr. Taber. And a picture of the same sort of thing for the next

fiscal year.

General HERSHEY. All right, sir. (The information is as follows:)

SELECTIVE SERVICE SYSTEM
1. Actual obligations July 1944 through March 1945, fiscal year

1945:
July 1944..

$5, 213, 658. 35 August 1944.

4, 634, 871. 47 September 1944.

4, 457, 227. 38 October 1944.

5, 575, 330.00 November 1944.

4, 384, 853. 68 December 1944.

4, 332, 507. 37 January 1945.

6, 370, 745. 73 February 1945.

5, 396, 013. 64 March 1945.

5, 731, 469. 27 2. Estimated obligations April 1945 through June 1945, fiscal year

1945:
April 1945.

5, 467, 774. 37 May 1945.

5, 467, 774. 37 June 1945.

5, 467, 774. 37 Total obligations fiscal year 1945.----

62, 500, 000.00 3. It is estimated that for the fiscal year 1946, the Selective Service System, will

obligate fund at the rate of $4,541,666.66 per month, excluding overtime payments.

KECEIPTS FROM SALARIES OF CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS COVERED

INTO THE TREASURY

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Along that line, General, according to the Budget break-down, from which I take it you exclude overtime from Four 1946 figures, the overtime for 1945 comes to $7,820,000. If you add in the unexpended balance of $425,000, according to my figures, it gives you $8,250,000.

Mr. TABER. It makes it more money than they had this year.

Mr. WIGGLES WORTH. It makes it practically the same for the 2 years, I would think. No; it is more money than you had this year.

Colonel MITCHELL. I do not follow you on that, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Taking the Budget break-down which we have here, it shows under "Departmental” an overtime of $377,482 for 1945, and then it shows overtime of $6,450,398. The sum of those two items is $7,827,000-plus; and you told us you had an unexpended balance of $425,000.

General HERSHEY. That is not an unexpended balance. That
reverts directly to the Treasury.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. So you did not use it?
General HERSHEY. It does not go through our appropriation at all.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I do not understand that.
General HERSHEY. Those funds go directly to the Treasury.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Where did they come from originally?
General HERSHEY. From the work projects of these conscientious
objectors that are assigned to dairy farms.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Who provided the money?
General HERSHEY. If a conscientious objector works for a man and
gets, say, $135 a month, he is allowed $15 for clothing and miscella-
Deous personal expenses. The other part of it goes into the Federal

[graphic]

Mr. CANNON. Instead of being $7,000,000, is not that $6,000,000?

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Yes; I guess that is right. It should be $6,800,000. DISCUSSION OF CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS

(See p. 63) Mr. Case. How are conscientious objectors assigned to dairy farms?

General HERSHEY. Some of them are permitted to go out and work for private individuals. Some of them are out at agricultural experimental stations that the Federal Government maintains in the States. In one case they are actually assigned to one of the agencies of Government, and in the other case they actually work for a private individual.

Mr. CASE. When they work for a private individual, like on a dairy farm, do they fix their own hours and do they have leave in the evenings and on week ends at their own volition?

General HERSHEY. They have whatever is given them by the man for whom they work; yes. They are on detached service. They are out there working for pay, but we collect it with the exception of $15 which the conscientious objector gets for personal expenses, such as clothing, toilet articles, and the like. Normally when they work for an individual farmer they get their food from the person they work for.

Mr. CASE. Is that considered work of national importance, within your definition of that phrase?

General HERSHEY. Yes. In fact, in the fall of 1944, when the farm situation was quite acute, when we could furnish only a thousand or 1,500, the War Food Administration was pressing us to furnish more. Of course there is a limit to the number we can find that we are willing to let go out more or less as individuals.

Mr. Case. It occurs to me that Congress either lacks in the definition of work of national importance, or something is left to be desired in the interpretation given by the Selective Service, if some men can put themselves in a category where they can live and do the same type of work they would probably be doing anyhow, whereas other boys go out to face gunfire.

General HERSHEY. I would not argue that with you at all, because my sympathies have been with the side from which you are speaking. But the law did say that they had to be given work of national importance and did give them the right to escape gunfire. Of course it also gives the right to a man to escape gunfire by deferring him. I think it would be a little difficult to show that producing food was not work of national importance. After all, I have been trying to administer the law with some 8,000 individuals that I have on my hands. The law did not say I had to administer it, but the President did delegate it to the Director of Selective Service; and as you know, we probably have 2,000 of them working in mental hospitals as attendants. That, obviously, is less dangerous than going to war; there is no question about it. One of the reasons we assigned them to that work was because those hospitals were in such a desperate strait for attendants.

Mr. Case. I think that should be carried on, of course; but I have had the opinion expressed to me so forcefully by many people that they cannot explain to the boys who come back from Italy or Germany or some other place and who see the conscientious objectors coming to town on Saturday night and dating their girls and having a good time

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