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Colonel Howse. A report to the Congress on the iron and steel industry, for example, Mr. Taber, will include marketing surveys, analyses of freight rates, analyses of post-war possibilities in certain regions, and so forth, and will have to do with the disposition of all the iron and steel plants. It is a highly technical and highly complicated report which will be furnished with scientific data and information gathered by industrial engineering firms and people of that caliber. Under our plants set-up we worked a great deal with the O'Mahoney committee of the Senate and also the Department of Justice, as well as with the Colmer Post-war Planning Committee of the House, and have, we think at least, agreed upon the form and the content of the report. This amount is going to be a drop in the bucket compared to the efforts that will be expended on each report by the various disposal agencies and the other governmental agencies.

We have asked in the Plant Division, for example, for one man to handle the whole iron and steel industry program. It might be difficult to reduce that one man to any less personnel.

Mr. TABER. They will still have a set-up of that same kind with a lot more help in the R. F.C. on that particular business, will they not?

Colonel Howse. They will need a great deal of help in the R. F. C.; yes.

WORK OF DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR FOR INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY Mr. Taber. This will be an over-all agency that will be operating in that industrial property proposition where you have an overhead set-up of 6. Then under that you have a Materials Division with 10. You have a Machinery and Equipment Division with 10, and a Plant Division with 33.

WORK OF MATERIALS DIVISION

I do not know what the Materials Division is going to amount to: Is that a very big item or not?

Colonel Howse. Well, Mr. Taber, it is. It includes all raw materials and all unprocessed materials, scrap

Mr. TABER. Scrap will come under them?
Colonel Howse. Scrap will be one of the items included.

Mr. Taber. I thought each constituent agency was being allowed to dispose of its own scrap. Colonel Howse. That is correct, but this again is a policy making

to might go into a question at issue at the particular moment--the scrap abroad. Should certain types of scrap be brought home? Should tanks be brought home and scrapped after they are received here, or should they be converted to scrap abroad and the residue be sold abroad? The same question arises in the disposition of airplanes. This Division, in which there are 10 people, covers the entire field of raw material, any unprocessed goods, scrap; they have to do with the stock piling of metals and minerals as required by the act and in conjunction with the Army-Navy Munitions Board; they have to do with establishing policies and converting the stock piles to civilian use under certain circumstances.

Mr. Taber. Are they very big stock piles?

On page 2 of your justifications, the revised justifications, it seems to me that we ought to have not only the positions that you are requesting, but that we ought to know what is in being at the moment, and what you have on your rolls.

Mr. BURROWS. The reason that we did not do so is because our organization is a skeleton organization at the moment. We inherited very little from the Surplus War Property Administration and, pending these decisions, have not been able to recruit the people that are necessary to do the job. Therefore, any relationship between what we propose and what we have now is not at all a normal relationship.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. It may not be normal from one standpoint, but I think it would be helpful to this committee to see what is actually on the rolls now and what you have been working with.

Colonel Howse. We will be glad to furnish a statement Mr. Wiggle worth; to that effect.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You could just put another column on that table on page 2. That would be helpful insofar as it goes anywhere

(The information has been furnished under "Office of the Board on p. 1193.)

RESEARCH AND STATISTICS DIVISION Mr. Taber. Now, this Research and Statistics Division, how much of that do you have now?

Colonel Howse. You have me at a disadvantage all through this entire chart. I cannot tell you with any degree of exactitude what we have minutely down through these divisions, but I will furnish a table for the committee.

Mr. TABER. For statistics, why do you need 39 people at $148,100? That is practically $4,000 apiece, on an average. That does not include this overtime or this pay raise that is in sight, whichever becomes effective. Why do you need any such set-up as that?

Colonel Howse. I think probably the simplest answer, Mr. Taber. is that they are needed to prepare that monthly, quarterly, and special reports as to each category of surpluses.

Mr. TABER. How will such a number of people as that be needed These other outfits will have their own research set-ups and their own statistics set-ups. This will be a sort of overhead that will throw the thing together from the statistics that are handed them by the agencies; is that not correct?

Colonel Howse. That is part of it, Mr. Taber, certainly.
Mr. Taber. Is that not about all that they have to do?

Colonel Howse. The balance of it you might charge off to research work and economic studies of our own to provide the necessary background for the formulation of policies and regulations.

Mr. Taber. It seems to me an outfit with four or five people in it with a stenographer or a statistical clerk apiece could cover the job.

Colonel Howse. I might also point out, if you do not mind moving over to the Industrial Properties Division, in the plant set-up there we are required under the act to submit to the Congress, reports on the 12 categories of industry itemized therein, and our research people will be working with these technical people in the preparation of the congressional reports.

Mr. Taber. Why would you need any such number? It seems to me this would be pretty well overdone in the set-up.

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Colonel HOWSE. A report to the Congress on the iron and steel industry, for example, Mr. Taber, will include marketing surveys, analyses of freight rates, analyses of post-war possibilities in certain regions, and so forth, and will have to do with the disposition of all the iron and steel plants. It is a highly technical and highly complicated report which will be furnished with scientific data and information gathered by industrial engineering firms and people of that caliber. Under our plants set-up we worked a great deal with the O'Mahoney committee of the Senate and also the Department of Justice, as well as with the Colmer Post-war Planning Committee of the House, and have, we think at least, agreed upon the form and the content of the report. This amount is going to be a drop in the bucket compared to the efforts that will be expended on each report by the various disposal agencies and the other governmental agencies.

We have asked in the Plant Division, for example, for one man to handle the whole iron and steel industry program. It might be difficult to reduce that one man to any less personnel.

Mr. TABER. They will still have a set-up of that same kind with a lot more help in the R. F. C.on that particular business, will they not?

Colonel Howse. They will need a great deal of help in the R. F. C.; yes.

WORK OF DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR FOR INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY Mr. TABER. This will be an over-all agency that will be operating in that industrial property proposition where you have an overhead set-up of 6. Then under that you have a Vaterials Division with 10. You have a Machinery and Equipment Division with 10, and a Plant Division with 33.

WORK OF MATERIALS DIVISION

I do not know what the Materials Division is going to amount to; Is that a very big item or not?

Colonel HOWSE. Well, Mr. Taber, it is. It includes all raw materials and all unprocessed materials, scrap

Mr. TABER. Scrap will come under them?
Colonel Howse. Scrap will be one of the items included.

Mr. TABER. I thought each constituent agency was being allowed to dispose of its own scrap.

Colonel Howse. That is correct, but this again is a policy making group making determinations as to how scrap will be handled. I might go into a question at issue at the particular moment--the scrap abroad. Should certain types of scrap be brought home? Should tanks be brought home and scrapped after they are received here, or should they be converted to scrap abroad and the residue be sold abroad? The same question arises in the disposition of airplanes. This Division, in which there are 10 people, covers the entire field of raw material, any unprocessed goods, scrap; they have to do with the stock piling of metals and minerals as required by the act and in conjunction with the Army-Navy Munitions Board; they have to do with establishing policies and converting the stock piles to civilian use under certain circumstances.

Mr. TABER. Are they very big stock piles?

Colonel Howse. I would have to tell you I just do not know. There are, of course, presently some stock piles that we might term as war stock piles that will be surplus in the near future, or at least when the war is over. Then the act specifically provides for the stock piling of certain particularly named categories of metals. minerals, and materials. That would be a changing list and would be determined by the Army-Navy Munitions Board.

Mr. CASE. Has the Army and Navy Munitions Board filed the report contemplated by the act on the maximum and minimum amounts of each strategic material?

Colonel Howse. No; they have not.

Mr. CASE. The act which was effective October 3 called for the filing by the Board within 3 months, which would be in January.

Colonel HowsE. I think the report is past due, but it has not been

file.colonel'he Boara act which have ?

Mr. CASE. Have you any idea as to when that report will be available?

Colonel Howse. No, sir. Mr. Case. Have you determined any policy with respect to the disposal of surplus strategic materials, as they might be termed, after the filing of that report?

Colonel Howse. That necessarily must wait until the Army and Navy Munitions Board determine, when and if that is stock piled, how much they want and where they want it.

Mr. CASE. Are you taking any steps to set up this division with personnel prior to the filing of these reports?

Colonel HowsE. We are. I might point out, however, that the stock piling is only one small segment of the Division. They handle all material. Not just stock-piled material, but all unprocessed material, scrap, and reclaimed clothing.

Mr. Case. Have you given any consideration to the suggestion that has been talked about to some extent, in the press at least, of taking surplus aircraft and simply processing them or melting them down as the best way of getting some salvage?

Colonel HOWSE. There has been a great deal of consideration given to that, and I think when we get to aircraft we will have an explanation of where we are and what we are contemplating, and why.

Mr. Case. If you do that, would the aluminum and the other minerals and metals that might be recovered be subject to the limitations of the Army and Navy Board's recommendations as to the maximum and minimum amounts of such materials, or would they be surplus independent of the stock pile?

Colonel Howse. Obviously, some material in each, if I understand your question--if you consider X material, if the X material we are going to have surplus-is material that the Board is stock piling, it would be subject to the limitations on stock piling

Mr. CASE. Would you apply that to cure any deficiency in the recommended stock piles before you disposed of it?

Colonel Howse. Yes. We would be required to do so by law.

PLANT DIVISION Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Where are you going to get these 15 $8,000 Directors and Assistant Directors for this Plant Division? How many do you have now?

Colonel HOWSE. We have at the present time the aluminum man and the iron and steel man. We hope to have the rest of them in here as soon as we get this appropriation cleared with this committee.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Will you take them from the War Production Board or from outside? Where do you hope to find them?

Colonel HowsE. I do not know that I can name any particular category from which we expect to get them. We are trying to get some from other governmental agencies. We are trying to get some from industry directly. We have no set formula or pattern.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Give us an example of the problem in simple terms that this Plant Division, through one of these assistant directors, would pass upon.

Colonel Howse. I will take, if I may, either the aluminum problem or the iron and steel problem. If you have no choice, I will take the iron and steel problem.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Either one?

Colonel Hows. There is the problem in the iron and steel industry of the disposition of all iron and steel plants. This Board has to make recommendations to Congress at stated intervals.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Who is going to be the disposal agency?

Colonel Howse. For iron and steel plants it will be principally, if not solely, the R. F. C. or the D. P. C., as the case may be.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What does the R. F. C. do and what does this Plants Division in your set-up do?

Colonel Howse. The iron and steel men here will be, we hope, the best iron and steel technical experts, industrial experts, that can be obtained in this country. The iron and steel man will coordinate with the Department of Justice, with all the other governmental agencies, with our own economic research group, with the economic and research staffs of the R. F. C. and the D. P. C., with local committees, with industry committees, with labor committees, with railway and transportation committees, and provide the Congress with a complete report on the iron and steel industry generally, on the surplus plants that are to be disposed of as a whole; and then we will be in a position to make specific recommendations to the Congress as required by the act when each plant costing more than $5,000,000 is disposed of, and report to the Congress prior to the confirmation of the deal.

There is involved not just the sale of any individual plant; there is involved, perhaps, the life of that entire industry if the job is not done properly.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. And the R. F. C.?

Colonel Howse. The R. F. C. further will do this. If I may take a particular example within the category of iron and steel that I have been discussing, there is the Provo steel plant in l'tah; the R. F. C. will employ industrial engineers, and in this case have already employed an industrial engineering firm, to make an engineering survey of that plant as to its possible conversion uses, its reproduction costs and its possible post-war economic value in that section of the country in the making of iron and steel. It will recommend certain additions which, perhaps, might entail further capital expenditures, so that it can be a completely integrated steel plant instead of a plant, as it is now, for the production of only a certain type of steel.

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