Mr. TABER. Your policy items, on the first two items on your inventory on page 11 are going to be items for which the Reconstruction Finance Corporation will very largely have to determine a policy, and I do not know how you are going to handle it any other way unless you duplicate entirely the set-up they have.

Colonel HowSE. I might say categorically it is not contemplated that we will duplicate any of the set-ups in any of the disposal agencies. We are requiring or expecting the disposal agencies to furnish us with all of the services that they can that will assist us in determining a particular policy. We are keeping the experts as much as possible down on the level of the disposal agencies.

We have here, and are prepared to show you, certain visual charts which might indicate to you the complexity of the problem. No one single policy can be established for the disposal of airplanes. There has to be a policy worked out for the different categories of aircraft and aircraft material, and there has to be a continuing policy developed.

Mr. TABER. Perhaps we ought to have that picture before we get into this one, as to what your set-up will be. Do we have the cart before the horse? You know better than I whether or not we have the cart before the horse in our approach to this problem. Should we approach it by getting the disposal agency's picture before we get yours?

Colonel HowSE. I think that is entirely up to the committee.

Mr. TABER. I want to know, because I do not want to spend a lot of time asking you questions that are going to draw out this whole procedure.

I can see this: If the problem of personnel to determine all of this policy question and that sort of thing is going to be in your board, that is one picture. On the other hand, if you are going to have a lot of these high-priced people in the disposal agencies who are going to operate on it in addition, that is going to present another problem. I would like to see what the picture is.

Perhaps going into these things, especially on the compliance and policy end of it, is going to involve another question. What about that?

Colonel HowSE. I rather think, Mr. Taber, if I may be permitted an expression of personal opinion, you have to sift through the whole thing before you can come to any conclusion as to any particular parts of it. That is the way that my mind works.

May I take up the component divisions of the Board individually so we do not get them confused?

Mr. TABER. Yes; take up each one of them and tell us about them; how many you have now; why you need them; what you intend to have them do. I think we ought to cover that picture.

PERSONNEL AND WORK OF THE OFFICE OF THE ADMINISTRATOR Colonel HowSE. If I may start with the Office of the Administrator: There is a provision for a total of nine, including the Administrator and two assistant administrators.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That is administrative?
Mr. TABER. There is no deputy?

Colonel HowSE. No.

Mr. TABER. But an assistant?

Colonel HowSE. There is one administrator and two assistant administrators, and the various administrative clerical and stenographic people that are ordinarily essential. I think that is broken down, if I might suggest, on this chart.

Mr. TABER. That is shown in your so-called chart, or whatever you call it?

Colonel HowSE. Yes.

Mr. TABER. It is quite hard to follow, a good deal more difficult to follow than a table.

NUMBER AND FUNCTIONS OF DEPUTY ADMINISTRATORS

Colonel HowSE. There are established seven deputy administrators, each in charge of-

Mr. TABER (interposing). Are they presently functioning, or are they just in sight?

Colonel HowSE. Four of them are presently functioning and three, I hope, are en route here and are to be here by the end of the week. Each deputy then has jurisdiction over the principal category or industry as they are laid out on that chart.

Mr. TABER. How are they laid out in this table; as indicated here, I assume?

Colonel HowSE. Yes; that is correct.

DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR-STAFF SERVICES

Mr. TABER. The first one seems to be a staff office on the table, for staff service. Is he functioning?

Colonel HowSE. He is not; no.

Mr. TABER. There seems to be on the chart 6 employees calling for $25,000 and on the table there seems to be 55 at $194,000. Those two do not seem to go together.

Colonel HowSE. The chart shows the total figure, Mr. Taber.
Mr. TABER. Covers all of that under him?

Colonel HowSE. Everything under him.

Mr. TABER. That seems to be $194,000. That covers the whole set-up?

Colonel HowSE. Yes.

Mr. TABER. That is the administrative set-up?

Colonel HowSE. No; that is not quite correct, Mr. Taber.

Mr. TABER. What is it?

Colonel HowSE. The administrative set-up, which is the overhead operations of the Board, the housekeeping functions of the Administrative Division.

Mr. TABER. That is the $66,000?

Colonel HowSE. That is correct, and 24 employees.

Mr. TABER. What about the first one?

Colonel HowSE. The Compliance Division?

Mr. TABER. No; the one on top, right above that.

Mr. CANNON. The staff services?

Mr. TABER. For six employees, and $25,000; that is their job too. is it not?

Colonel HowSE. No. Their job, Mr. Taber, is to supervise the handling of the entire staff services, and supervision of the three

divisions under them. The staff service set-up is broken down into three distinct operations: One is the compliance set-up, which establishes the policy for the compliance activities of owning and disposal agencies.

STAFF AND WORK OF COMPLIANCE DIVISION

Mr. TABER. You are asking for a director and an assistant director and four investigators with salaries above $4,000 in the compliance set-up. What would be the job of this Compliance Division?

Colonel HowSE. The Compliance Division, Mr. Taber, would establish the policies under which the disposal agencies-and that includes all of them-would operate insofar as building their own investigative units is concerned. Perhaps I am not competent to mention here either the necessity or the lack of necessity for having strong investigative units down through the disposal agencies. Certainly the history of the last war indicated that it was very desirable, and even then scandals occurred. The possibilities of manupulation in the sale of $100,000,000,000 of surplus, of course, are enormous. We are asking each disposal agency to set up their own compliance groups so as to police their own operations. We have the over-all group at the board level for the purpose of establishing the policies under which they will operate.

We have four investigators for the country at large in cases of problems of national proportion, or the problems that are certain to arise between agencies where one agency has no jurisdiction over the other. We are making no effort to duplicate any of the criminal functions presently followed by the F. B. I., the Treasury, Secret Service, and

so on.

Arrangements are being made under this set-up to refer criminal cases to them for handling.

Mr. TABER. In other words, you are going to have an investigatorial service and a compliance section in each disposal agency to police itself, and then you are to have this section as an over-all picture to police the agencies.

Colonel HowSE. That is correct; yes.

Mr. TABER. That is the objective of this picture?

Colonel HowSE. I think that would be a very fair statement.

AGENCIES DIVISION

Mr. TABER. Now this next section, the Agencies Division. You have there quite a considerable set-up.

You have a director in the Agencies Division and three assistant directors at $6,500, and an administrative analyst at $5,600, and a couple of administrative analysts at $4,600. Then there are some more at lower figures. You have secretaries, and so forth, totaling $60,300. What do these people have to do?

Colonel HowSE. That is the group, Mr. Taber, that will be concerned with inquiring into the procedures and operations of the various disposal agencies; for approving the disbursement to the disposal agencies of the reimbursable funds from the $60,000,000 fund that we are presently seeking.

Mr. TABER. I thought that was what the deputy administrator of the staff was supposed to do.

Colonel HowSE. That is a part of his function also. His supervisory service is spread over the three divisions and not just any one of them.

Mr. TABER. How about this administrative set-up? That relates entirely to the housekeeping of your own organization?

Colonel HowSE. That is a housekeeping function.

Mr. TABER. Not the agency, but just your own organization.
Colonel HowSE. Just our shop; yes.

Mr. TABER. Now, these other divisions.

Colonel HowSE. Yes.

STAFF AND WORK FOR DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR FOR REPORTS AND

INFORMATION

Mr. TABER. The next item here is the one for the Administrator for Reports and Information, with 69 people, totaling $264,000. Where do I get that in this other chart? That is your statistical set-up? What does the Deputy Administrator in his own office with $25,600 have to do? There are 6 people, 2 of whom have salaries above $5,000 in there. What are their jobs?

Colonel HowSE. He exercises general supervision over the two divisions, the Information Division and the Reports and Statistics Division, and divides his time between them.

Mr. TABER. And has general charge of that picture; is that his job? Colonel HowSE. That is correct; yes.

INFORMATION DIVISION

Mr. TABER. When you get to the Information Division, what do they do?

Colonel HowSE. Their functions consist of establishing policies providing full and complete information on the sale of surplus property. I mentioned on Friday, I think, that one of the principal difficulties that we have facing us is the dissemination of full and complete information to the public and to the people interested in purchasing surplus property, in such manner that they will not be confused any more than is necessary between the eight or nine disposal agencies.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You have a director at $8,000, an assistant at $6,500, and two more communication liaison people at $6,500. There are also six informational specialists at $5,600.

Colonel HowSE. That is correct yes.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. A total of 24 for information purposes.
Colonel HowSE. Yes; one for each principal category.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What will you do with 24 people on information?

Colonel HowSE. The communication liaison people that you have referred to, Mr. Wigglesworth, are congressional liaison, one for the House and one for the Senate.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What can you do with 24 people?

Colonel HowSE. I do not know any better way to answer you than

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Are you going into moving pictures and radio and all the trappings?

Colonel HowSE. I hope no trappings, Mr. Wigglesworth. We are trying to set up one system to which each disposal agency will contribute a portion of its efforts.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. They all have their own information set-ups, do they not?

Colonel HowSE. They have, but there is no unification. That is where the difficulty arises now in the minds of the public who want to buy surplus property.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What is the O. W. I. doing?

Colonel HowSE. The O. W. I. has no connection, within my knowledge, with this program.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. They are going to coordinate and unify all information on surplus property, are they not?

Colonel HowSE. Not to my knowledge, no, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I thought they coordinated all governmental information on all topics, or tried to.

Colonel HowSE. I am not prepared to state what they consider their functions.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. It seems to me they mentioned specifically this matter of surplus property disposal the other day when they were before the committee.

Mr. TABER. Is that a new one for you?

Colonel HowSE. It is not a new one exactly. It is one that I do not know anything about. I am not prepared to defend the O. W. I.'s budget.

Mr. TABER. Who is the person who has charge of this information set-up, or is he not yet?

Colonel HowSE. He is not yet.

Mr. TABER. Is he coming out of the O. W. I.?

Colonel HowSE. No. He has no connection with the O. W. I. Mr. TABER. Where is he coming from?

Colonel HowSE. We have yet to get him.

Mr. TABER. How is he going to keep all these people busy-these indivudal agencies will be sending out stuff on each of the things that they have to do, will they not?

Colonel HowSE. In their own segments, yes; that is correct.

Mr. TABER. Why do they have a set-up if you are going to do it? That is the thing that I do not understand. You have an informational specialist for each one of these set-ups and besides each one of them has a set-up of its own. I just do not understand that.

Colonel HowSE. Perhaps I have not explained the proposition very well, Mr. Taber. We are not going to do the public relations work and the information work for the various disposal agencies. We are going only to coordinate the activities into a unified picture for the public and the Congress. In addition the information division will be responsible for developing information regarding the progress of disposing of surplus property for reports to the Congress and for special reports as required. The Board has a definite responsibility to keep the Congress and the public informed regarding the over-all status of surplus property disposal.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How much of this set-up is really in being

now?

Colonel HowSE. I do not know exactly. I can give you a memorandum on that if you would like to have it.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I think that we ought to have some idea of what you have on the rolls now with respect to this set-up, or each of your set-ups.