It is not far from the Milky Way, of which Herschel regarded it as a sort of offshoot or protuberance. Milton is full of mythological allusions, and if a constellation may be said to bear off Andromeda, it surely would be her deliverer Perseus. W. T. LYNN. EARLY FIRE BRIGADES. "The fire brigade was not established [in Paris] on a firm basis by M. Morat until from 1770 to 1780. Previous to that time, the principal assistance was given at fires by the mendicant orders; it was the Capuchin monks who climbed on the roofs, rescued from the flames those who were in danger of death, and saved the most precious chattels just as they were about to be consumed, The first fire-pumps belonged to these religious communities, who themselves dragged them to the place of danger.' Memoirs of Chancellor Pasquier,' edited by the Duc d'Audiffret-Pasquier, translated by Chas. E. Roche, 1893, vol. i. p. 490, foot-note. WILLIAM GEORGE BLACK. 12, Sardinia Terrace, Glasgow. BRITISH PEERS AND GERMAN SOVEReigns. The following letter appeared in the Times. The information may be useful to readers of N. & Q.': "I should like, with your permission, to point out to ignorant Radical cavillers that in recent times, only a hundred years ago, the Duke of York, second son of the reigning Sovereign of Great Britain, to whom undoubtedly he owed allegiance, was, at the same time, a British peer, with the right, never disputed, to sit and vote in the House of Lords, and, as Bishop of Oanaburgh (more properly Osnabrück), a member of the Germanic Body and a Sovereign Prince entitled to sit and vote among the Princes in the Diet of the Empire, where the Bishop's place was marked before those of Hesse Cassel, Hesse Darmstadt, Würtemberg, &c. That he had the attributes of sovereignty (under, of course, the Empire) is certain. In 1764 the Chapter of Osnaburgh announced to George III. the election of his son Prince Frederick as Bishop and Sovereign of that See.' In 1773 the King, acting, not as Elector of Hanover, but as tutor to the Bishop, his son, ordered the execution at Osnaburgh of the Pope's Bull for the suppression of the order of the Jesuits. A Royal patent, dated November 2, 1802, notifying to the canons,......knighte, vassals,.... and subjects of the late Bishopric of Osnaburgh' that, in consequence of the arrangements come to at Lunéville and Ratisbon, King George took possession of the said principality, contains the following passage: As we have agreed with respect to its cession and evacuation with its Sovereign, our beloved Prince Frederick Duke of York and Albany.' It appears to me that this historical case is exactly analogous to the dual position of the Duke of Saxe-Coburg, Duke of Edinburgh, which has been made the subject of frivolous and vexatious objections.-EDWARD HERRIES." E. LEATON-BLENKINSOPP. PARISH COFFINS.-These articles of church furniture, referred to under 'Body Snatching,' 8th S. iv. 530, were not "mort-safes," but coffins in which the shrouded bodies were carried to church for burial. For several instances, and further information, see 'Durham Parish Books,' Surtees Soc., vol. lxxxiv. pp. 1690, 201. Winterton, Doncaster. J. T. F. Queries. We must request correspondents desiring information on family matters of only privato interest to affix their names and addresses to their queries, in order that the answers may be addressed to them direct. "FERRATEEN."-In 'Kenilworth,'ch. xxiv., Wayland Smith reviles Master Goldthred, the mercer, as, "Thou false man of frail cambric and ferrateen." Where did Scott find this word; and what does it mean? It is hardly likely to have been evolved from a confused remembrance of ferrandine. HENRY BRADLEY. 6, Worcestor Gardens, Clapham Common. volume of the State Papers' of 1588 for the Navy "METHERINX": "OLDERNE."-In preparing a Records Society I have come across these two words, of which I can find no satisfactory explanation.. I shall be grateful to any friendly reader who can assist me. Methering occurs in a victualling account of the Roebuck, along with beef and Irish fish. Its price was twenty-four shillings. Olderne was a coin current in Cadiz, apparently worth nine ducats, or, in round numbers, forty shillings Eng-lish. J. K. LAUGHTON. Barnet. PORTRAIT OF WM. ROSCOE.-I should feel obliged if any reader of N. & Q.' could say where the bust may be from which the portrait of William Roscoe which appears in the 1846 edition of his 'Leo X.' is taken. A small bust in gypsum, which I take to be a copy only of the original bust, but a very good likeness, has come into my possession. There is no clue to be obtained from the engraving in 'Leo X.' as to the whereabouts of the original. WILLIAM PARSONS, COMEDIAN, according to his friend and biographer Thomas Bellamy, was the son of a carpenter, was born Feb. 29, 1736, in Bow Lane, Cheapside, educated at St. Paul's School, and, at the age of fifteen, was in the office of Sir Henry Cheese, a surveyor. The Georgian Era says that he was born in Maidstone in 1735, and apprenticed to an apothecary. Whence is the information supplied in the Georgian Era' derived? What was the date of Parsons's admission to St. Paul's School? URBAN. THE DATE OF THE TALMUD.-I should be grateful for information as to the approximate date when the Talmud was first completed. Which are the most recent English or American translations giving detailed indexed information as to the contents? I have Hershon's books on the Talmud. J. LAWRENCE-HAMILTON, M.R.C.S. 30, Sussex Square, Brighton. CHARLES I.-What was the exact route (in detail) along which Charles I. was taken by the Scots army from Newark to Newcastle-on-Tyne in May, 1646; and what was the exact route (in detail) of Charles from Newport, Isle of Wight, to Worsley Tower, and from Hurst Castle to Windsor, in December, 1648? C. M. READING DUTCH TO MILTON.-In a letter from Roger Williams to John Winthrop the younger (afterwards Governor of Connecticut), dated Providence, July 12, 1654 (see Elton's Life of Williams,' p. 104), Roger Williams writes: "The Secretary of the Council Mr Milton, for my Dutch I read him, read me many more languages.' When or where did Roger Williams learn Dutch? How was he so proficient in Dutch as to read Dutch to Milton, Milton being a great linguist? Did Roger Williams visit Holland before coming to America? B. P. New York. EYNUS: HAINES.-In the voyage of Sir Walter Ralegh to Guiana in 1595 I find mention of a Capt. Eynus or Eynos. Is there any other account of this voyage where I can get further information of this personage; and does he appear elsewhere? I am in search of traces of a certain Haynes (Eynus, Haines, Hayne, &c.), who is said to have taken part in some buccaneering enterprise at the end of the sixteenth century or a little later. Old atlases used to show a river named Haines River, on the east side of Africa, near Somaliland. Can any of your readers inform me after whom this river was named; and why the name has since been changed? C. R. HAINES. Uppingham. COMING FAMILY.-Is anything known regarding the family and connexions of William Cuming, M.D., of Dorchester, Dorset, save what can be found in Hutchins's History of Dorset' (third edition, ii. 391, 392), and in Dr. Cuming's will? According to the former authority he was the son of James Cuming, 66 an eminent merchant in Edinburgh (who died 1736), by Margaret, only daughter of George Hepburn, merchant in the same city." William Cuming was the youngest of eight sons, only three of whom reached man's estate. From his will (dated April 16, 1787), we learn that his "late brother James Cuming merchant in Edinburgh" left a daughter, named Charlotte Helen, who was then James's only surviving child. She married "Pelham Maitland, Esq., of Edinburgh." In a copy of the Caledonian Mercury (No. 3892, Edinburgh, Monday, Sept. 23, 1745), which proCuming," of Guise's regiment, was taken prisoner bably belonged to Dr. Cuming, I find that "Lieut. by Prince Charles's forces at the battle of Preston Pans. Dr. Cuming's pocket-book for 1766 (the sole remaining one, alas!) records payments "to W. G. BOSWELL-STONE. my nephew." 22, Fox Grove Road, Beckenham, S.E. DORSET FAMILY NAMES.-Mr. Hardy, in his powerful story Tess of the D'Urbervilles,' states that the surnames Debbyhouse, Durbeyfield, and Priddle, found among the peasantry, are survivals D'Urberville, and Paridelle (pp. 302, 4, and 164, of the ancient and noble names De Bayeux, fifth edition). Is this a part of the romance, or A. SMYTHE PALMER, D.D. sober fact? Woodford. In a tavern let me die, And a bottle near me lie, That every one who sees may cry, I do not find it mentioned in the previous BROWNING'S 'EPILOGUE.'-Can any of your readers inform me what legend, from what book of Arctic travel, is referred to by Browning, in his Epilogue to Dramatis Personæ,' third section, As, in Arctic seas, they said of old," &c. ? T. S. O. Sackville, and the ground was given by Sir Richard de Thorngham. Another authority states that the house owed its immediate erection to Sir Robert de Turneham, one of Cœur de Lion's knights. Are these statements contradictory; or how are they reconciled? H. Beplies. IRISH CATHEDRALS. (8th S. iv. 49, 192.) My thanks are due to MR. MOOR for his answer to my note. Any attempt at a reply is better than none at all, though it is slightly disappointing to get a stone in lieu of a loaf. But let me convert MR. MOOR's indigestible pabulum into a more nutritious commodity. SIR THOMAS AND SIR WAlter Rawlinson. Details wanted as to the parentage of Sir Thomas Rawlinson, Lord Mayor of London in 1753, who died in 1769. By his marriage with Dorothea, daughter of the Rev. Richard Ray, of Haughley and Wetherden, Suffolk, he had two children. (a.) Cathedrals. In my previous note I reThe daughter Susanna married Sir George Womb-quested an explanation of the absence in Ireland well, Bart., in 1765. The son, Sir Walter Rawlinson, of cathedrals in ruin or in use equal in architecof Stowlangtoft, Suffolk, became Alderman of tural grandeur to those in England. In reply MR. London, and died March 13, 1805. His wife, who MOOR says, "It is clear that if the bishops had died Aug. 17, 1816, was a daughter of Sir Robert previously resided in monasteries as their chaplains, Ladbrooke, another Lord Mayor of London. What then the monasterial churches were their cathewas her Christian name? drals." I am afraid the clearness is confined to the region of his own mind. The argument has fallacy, which leads to darkness rather than light. every appearance of a post hoc ergo propter hoc Besides, though it is quite certain that prior to the Norman invasion Irish bishops acted universally as "monastic chaplains," it is also quite as certain that "the monasterial churches were [not] their cathedrals." Their very number (frequently seven) in each monastery precludes such an hypothesis. Dr. Healy ('Ancient Irish Church,' p. 46) is my authority for their multiplicity : G. MILNER-GIBSON-CULLUM, F.S.A. THE PRICES OF EMRAL AND BIRKENHEAD. In the chapter house, which is part of old Birkenhead (Birket) Priory, the only tablet is to the memory of Richard Parry Price, Esq., of Bryn y Pys, Flintshire, who died on May 14, 1782, and was buried in the vicinity of the tablet. His wife was Anne Puleston, of Emral, Flintshire, and through her the son succeeded to the estates of Puleston, taking also the name. Could any one inform me what relationship there was between this family and the Prices who were lords of the manor of Birkenhead ? The latter owned the ferry for upwards of five hundred years, and early in this century Mr. Francis Richard Price sold the property that borders the river, and from that time the family seems to have disappeared. Some connexion there must have been between the Emral Prices (or Pulestons) and the Prices of Birkenhead, for in the old part of St. Mary's Churchyard is a square tombstone to the memory of Evan George, late butler to Sir Richard Puleston, Bart., of Emral, who died in 1819. about that period there were only four houses in all Birkenhead, this man would most probably have died while his master was visiting the Prices at the Manor House. Camden Lawn, Birkenhead. HILDA GAMLIN. As As leader, that is, the abbot, and put the bishop in the second Of course these episcopal chaplains ordained and otherwise officiated in the churches of the abbeys or monasteries in which they lived, but the said churches were not thereby metamorphosed into cathedrals. Ecclesiastically the bishops were the abbots' superiors, socially they were subordinate to them, and an inferior would hardly usurp his officer's title. Besides, seven bishops claiming one cathedral-and that in multiplied instances-would be an utterly absurd anomaly in Church history. One hears of a bishop being "the husband of one wife" (i. e., bis church or diocese according to some interpreters), but hardly of the "one wife" rejoicing in seven episcopal husbands simultaneously. 2. Holy Cross Abbey, co. Tipperary.-In the Journal of the Royal Historical and Archæological Association of Ireland, vol. ix., 1889, p. 18, mention is made, inter alia, of "the beautiful western end of the church." The prevalence then of the monastic over the dio- "On nearing the small town of Timoleague, by the cesan system accounts sufficiently for the absence railway which runs alongside the river Arigadun, the of cathedrals in pre-Norman days, while the dearth striking ruins of Timoleague Abbey at once arrest the attention. Father Mooney calls it 'one of the of any ruins of cathedrals on a par with those of noblest houses of the Franciscan Order in Ireland.'...... England, and dating from diocesan and post-It is impossible to see these venerable ruins without invasion times, can only, I again submit, be ex-reflecting how splendid the building must have been in plained by national poverty and disintegration. its prime......The size and strength of the ruins attest MR. MOOR's contention that "popular devotion what violence must have been used to reduce them to their present state." would continue to centre upon the ancient monasteries and their coarbs or abbots, rather than upon the newer cathedrals and their bishops," is but a Jame apology for the lack of grandeur in Irish postNorman cathedrals, for "popular devotion" (by which, I presume, is meant as much practical, i. e. pecuniary, offerings as interest) would be wasted on buildings already erected and sufficiently embellished. The newer cathedrals" were wanting in the magnificence which is the glorious distinction of their English sisters simply by reason of the wretchedness and Norman apathy of the times. And many of them were built under the shadow of the abbeys and friaries, but never reached the splendour of their monastic rivals. The sum total of the whole matter is, therefore, I repeat, that abbots succeeded where bishops failed. statement of 3. Ennis Abbey, co. Clare.-In the same volume, P. 44, of the Journal just quoted, Mr. T. J. Westropp, M.A., contributes a paper entitled History of Ennis Abbey, co. Clare, 1240-1693,' in which he says:— "The remains, though much damaged, cover a large extent of ground. They consist of the chancel, lit by graceful lancet windows, the east being large, lofty, and handsome. A very fine canopied tomb with a plinth, richly carved with New Testament subjects, commemorates Pierce Creagh, of Adare and Limerick City, who was transplanted to Dangan, and died soon after the and decorated with foliage and flowers in very low relief Restoration. Opposite it a canopy, beautifully groined, ......the nave is altered past recognition, but the transept with a small chapel and four richly traceried windows remain...... The whole ruin is overgrown with ivy and elder, and is much defaced." 4. Manister Abbey, co. Limerick.-From an article by the same author in the same volume (p. 232) I excerpt the following respecting the Abbey of Manister or Monaster-Nenagh, Croom, co. Limerick, built between 1148 and 1151:— (b.) MR. MOOR quarrels with my parallel between Irish and English monastic ruins, and asks, " Is it, bowever, really the case that the monasteries were architecturally so much the richer?" It may seem ungrateful to convict an opponent ex ore suo, but if "popular devotion" was centred upon the ancient monasteries, it is very likely they would be; and as a matter of fact they were. Even Fergusson, as quoted by MR. MOOR, qualifies his "" "smallness by the admission that they are "rich in detail," which in itself would render them a 66 conspicuous success" compared with the medieval Irish cathedrals in ruin or in Not one of these latter is any better in size or adornment than an ordinary English parish church, while (to reiterate my contention) the ruins of the former vie successfully with any similar re-tury], was a noble edifice, cruciform, with two aisles. mains from Land's End to Melrose. Furthermore, MR. MOOR's supposition that the earlier Irish churches were both monastic and episcopal involves him in an awkward petitio principii, or, worse still, a circulus vitiosus, by questioning, even for discussion, the superiority of either the one or the other. A thing can hardly be either superior or use. inferior to itself. But as facts are the most cogent arguments, let me adduce a few in support of my point. MR. MOOR admits the architectural beauty of Mellifont, but sneers at Monasterboice (Murray, I observe, is evidently his meagre informant re the latter). What will he say to and of the following ?— 1. Timoleague Abbey, co. Cork.-Mr. D. Franklin, J.P., in a paper printed in the Journal of the Cork Historical and Archæological Society, Sept., 1892, writes: "In plan, Manister closely corresponds to Clairvaux, Kirkstall, and other great abbeys of this Order (Cistercian); the only parts now standing are the church, the chapter-house, and three fragments of wall; but the in the green field south of the church......The church, foundations of the cloister and domicile are very apparent before its retrenchment [probably in the fifteenth cen Five lofty arches rose on each side, the belfry piers being very large columns, with finely carved capitals and The transept arches have fine semicircular pilasters, their moulded pillars, and arches from 25 to 27 feet wide...... capitals carved with flowers and foliage, while the pillars of the chancel are square, with rounded shafts at the angles, and Norman capitals, with leaves instead of flutings. The chancel arch was pointed. O'Donovan says, I had no idea the Irish had built such splendid arches before the arrival of the English.'......The neglected state of the ruins defies description, and calls for remedy." W. Healy, P.P., contributes a paper to vol. i. for 5. Kilcooley Abbey, co. Tipperary.-The Rev. 1890 of the same Journal, headed The Cistercian Abbey of Kilcooley, co. Tipperary,' from which I quote brief passages: monastery, and fortress. The two former are moated "Kilcooley ruins may be taken as comprising a church, on the east and south sides......The beautiful east window of the chancel consists of six lights with strong stone mullions between; plainly chamfered. The tracery is exquisite, and appears like a blend of various patterns. The larger window in the north transept and both windows in the south transept are in the flamboyant style with the peculiar feature of the Tudor within a Norman, and both within the Gothic arch." After a lengthy and minute description of the peculiarities and beauties of this abbey the essayist concludes thus: "I have ever he'd in highest veneration the ruins of Kilcooley since my first inspection of them. It was here, nigh twenty years ago, I received my earliest archæological inspiration, and learned to admire the artistic tastes of the wonderful monks' of old......The present proprietress, and most estimable and accomplished lady of the noble House of Dunsany, the Hon. Mrs. Ponsonby, has already done much to prolong the existence of this beautiful old abbey. So far, she has done and is doing her part to preserve the distinctive features of its fading glories. We on our part shall, as far as possible, make an imperishable record of such worthy efforts, as well for the grateful acknowledgment of present society as for the admiration and applause of those who in future times shall admiringly gaze upon the ruins." 6. Mucross Abbey, near Killarney.-Windele, in his exquisite and now rare Historical and Descriptive Notices of the City of Cork and its Vicinity,' writes of this charming ruin (p. 377):— "Its grey, but leafy walls, where ruin greenly dwells,' yet continue in excellent preservation; a beautiful memorial of the piety, the skill, and the taste of the Irish of the Middle Ages; and a shrine to which the step and the wishes of many an admiring and venerating pilgrim have continued to be directed for centuries, alike in its prosperity as in its decay, without cessation or interruption; whilst time has but the more endeared it to the population of the district, of which it is not, in their minds, the least cherished glory." These appreciative words were penned many years ago, and from a visit to Mucross nine years since I can fully endorse what Windele says of it. 7. Kilcrea Abbey, co. Cork.-"The ruins are extensive," writes J. O'Mahony (Journal of the Cork Hist. and Arch. Society, p. 253), "the walls, columns, and arches of the transept, aisles, and choir remaining. The belfry, where the rooks build in ivied crevices, rises gracefully to a height of eighty feet. Among the traces of the early beauty of the building, which have survived vandalism and the ravages of time, are still to be seen four ribbed arches springing from a single column-a unique piece of architecture." Windele owns that "although the architecture is rather plain and homely, yet some good subjects for the pencil are afforded which the Cork artists have not failed to avail themselves of." By the way, Geoghegan's magnificent dramatic poem The Monks of Kilcrea' is given in extenso immediately after Mr. O'Mahony's article, and is a fine treat to those fortunate enough to come across it. Finally, with reference to MR. MOOR's sneer at Monasterboice, Wakeman (as quoted by Murray) speaks thus of the three famous crosses which form part of the archæological glories of that fane: "The crosses of Monasterboice may be regarded not only as memorials of the piety and munificence of a people whom ignorance and prejudice have too often sneered at as barbarous, but also as the finest works of sculptured art of their period now existing." But enough, and more than enough to substantiate my original theses that abbots succeeded where bishops failed, that nowhere throughout Ireland can traces be found of cathedrals equalling in splendour those of England, and that Irish monastic ruins are on a par in beauty and magnificence with those this side the Irish Sea. J. B. S. Manchester. "The overthrow of church buildings mentioned by Sidney and Spenser may be accounted for by their being generally turned into fortresses by the queen's troops; for in the churches dedicated to the saints it was most usual for them to reside,' says an Irish chronicler. And as the Irish loved no strong places upon their borders, they made no scruple, when occasion served, of burning and destroying them like the other castles of the English. We have seen how the cathedrals of Derry and Armagh fared in the wars of Shane O'Neill; and about the same period (1576) the church of Athenry, in Galway, was laid in ashes by the Mac-an-Earlas, sons of the Earl of Clanrickard; and when men cried out sacrilege and parricide, for their mother lay buried there, one of them fiercely answered, 'If his mother were alive in the church he would sooner burn her and it together than any English should fortify there.'"'Life of Hugh O'Neill,' by John Mitchel, p. 53. 66 W. A. HENDerson. "VENTRE-SAINT-GRIS" (8th S. i. 453; ii. 49, 131, 232, 289, 398, 529; iii. 354; iv. 346, 435) -When I said at the penultimate reference that we may assume that the trouvère sounded all the letters of Crist,'" I was arguing against myself. For I had previously shown that the present orthoepic distinction between 66 Christ " and "Jésus-Christ was in futurity in 1580, the date of Claude de Saintlien's tractate 'De Pronuntiatione Lingua Gallica,' the pronunciation being Cri in both cases-which is nowhere better evidenced than at p. 165. I therefore thank Dr. BREWER for noticing my private letter, though he has misunderstood me on one point. It is true that Saintlien distinctly denotes the pronunciation of "Christ en Dieu" with the s silent (p. 171), but "Jésus Christ en Dieu" is a creation of my own. The correction, however, has no bearing on the question at issue. The important fact is that "Christ" was pronounced Cri, easing as it does the change into "Gris," pronounced Gri. I cannot go with DR. BREWER when he contends that ventre is for corps. This appears to me to be sufficiently disproved by comparison with the oaths ventre Dieu and corps Dieu. On a former occasion I cited the oath Par la rate Dieu; and if the belly, a part of the body, is to be taken as equal to the whole body, why not the spleen? On swearing by parts of the Lord's body, see Prof. Skeat's Chaucer,' iii. 150, 157-8. |