ranged; that the committee had been formed, that the measures had been agreed upon, that the whole matter had been arranged, and that it is but a farce to go out, and bring in the verdict. If that be true, it will take but a very short time to get through with the farce, and I would rather laugh at the farce than wrangle and quarrel, and make it a tragedy instead of a farce. The objection urged by the Senator from Missouri has convinced me upon this point that we had better submit to the farce, allow them to go out, and to come in. This is not my opinion, but I have come to this conclusion simply in order to save time, and to get at the practical question. I see no use in prolonging this controversy, against the express will of the majority of the Senate. I speak for myself, and for no one else. I felt it due to myself to express my own opinion, in order to put myself before the country in the light in which I wish to stand before my own constitu ents. Mr. WEBSTER. I merely wish to suggest, sir, what I conceive to be an irregularity in the motion of the honorable Senator from Kentucky, (though he is as competent to judge of the order or irregularity of a proceeding as any gentleman in the country.) I care not, sir, how this motion to raise a committee be decided. I have no interest in it, because I am inclined to think that no great benefit can now be derived from it; but I must say that I do not think that the motion of the honorable member from Kentucky is in order. I do not think that it is a motion that can be received and entertained by the Chair; because I think it is the direct reversal of one of the standing rules of the Senate. Any proposition may be made Mr. FOOTE. The honorable Senator from Massachusetts, I know, is not aware that this is res judicata. The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Mississippi rise to a point of order? Mr. Foote. I do, sir. I know that the Senator from Massachusetts was not in the house at the time, and I am sure he would not pursue the present course of discussion if he knew that this point had been decided by the Chair already. Mr. WEBSTER. I did not so understand it. Mr. FOOTE. The point of order was raised, and the Chair decided that the motion was in order. Mr. WEBSTER. I suppose, if the amendment is in order, I may give my reasons for voting for it or against it; if it is not in order, I shall not say any thing about it. The rule of the Senate is, that the proposition under consideration may be amended. Now, suppose that this were a bill, could it contain a proposition that it should not be subject to amendment? Or could any gentleman move as an amendment to it, that this bill should be carried through the Senate without any proposition to amend? I apprehend that he could not; and I submit to the honorable member from Kentucky [APRIL, 1850. whether his motion is strictly in order? If I understand his resolution, it expresses the opinion that we ought to go clear of all propositions to amend. Is that the sentiment that will be expressed in the amendment if we adopt it? Mr. CLAY. I do not wish to interrupt the Senator, but here is a proposition to raise a committee of thirteen, and to refer to that committee of thirteen certain subjects. Very well. The Senator from Missouri proposes to do what? To impose certain restrictions upon that committee. Well, what is my proposition? The negative of his, accompanied by a declaration that we do not wish to give any instructions to the committee, and especially not those proposed by the Senator from Missouri. We have the right to vote these amendments down one by one: my proposition amounts to the same thing. The original motion is to raise a committee and refer certain subjects to it. The amendment is, to restrict that committee. My proposition is, that we will not adopt the restrictions proposed, or any other, but leave the committee free and untrammelled. Mr. WEBSTER called for the reading of Mr. CLAY's amendment; which was read accordingly. Mr. WEBSTER. The Senator from Kentucky will excuse me if I doubt the propriety of his motion. I suppose it will not be in order, if this resolution is passed, to have any further amendments. I very much doubt whether such a motion should be received by the Chair. I doubt whether it is not a question for the Senate to decide, whether any amendments that may be proposed shall be adopted. It is my opinion that it is. Mr. MANGUM. Some question has been raised by the Senator from New Hampshire, or rather some objection made in regard to the phraseology of the amendment proposed by the Senator from Kentucky, to wit: "That the Senate does not deem it necessary to instruct the committee." They may not deem it necessary at this instant, and an hour hence there may be a change of opinion. The modification that I propose, and which I trust the Senator will accept-for I cannot offer it in the shape of an amendment, there being an amendment to an amendment, already pending is, that it shall read thus: "The Senate does not deem it necessary, and therefore declines to instruct the committee." Mr. CLAY. I accept the modification, sir. The question being put upon the amendment as modified, the yeas and nays were taken and resulted as follows: YEAS. Messrs. Atchison, Badger, Bell, Borland, Dickinson, Dodge of Iowa, Douglas, Downs, Foote, Butler, Clay, Cass, Clemens, Davis of Mississippi, Hunter, Jones, King, Mangum, Mason, Morton, Pearce, Rusk, Sebastian, Soulé, Spruance, Sturgeon, Turney, Underwood, and Yulee-29. NAYS.-Messrs. Baldwin, Benton, Bradbury Bright, Chase, Clarke, Corwin, Davis of Massachusetts, Dayton, Dodge of Wisconsin, Felch, Greene, APRIL, 1850.] The Select Committee of Thirteen. [31ST CONG. Hale, Hamlin, Miller, Norris, Phelps, Seward, Shields, | sever them, so that if they should be connected Smith, Walker, and Whitcomb-22. So the amendment to the amendment was adopted. Mr. HAMLIN. I desire to have the original motion read by the Secretary; I mean the motion made by the Senator from Mississippi. The VICE PRESIDENT. That motion was to refer the resolutions of the Senator from Tennessee and those of the Senator from Kentucky to a select committee. Mr. HAMLIN. Yes, sir, I am aware of the purport, but I want the precise words, because I desire to amend the motion. I propose to amend by inserting these words: "Except so much of the same as relates to the admission of California as a State." I take it, sir Mr. TURNEY. I rise to a question of order. I understand there is a question before the Senate. The question now is upon the amendment of the Senator from Missouri as amended. Mr. FOOTE. In addition to that I would suggest The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator from Tennessee is correct; the question will be on the amendment as amended. The amendment as amended adopted. was then Mr. HAMLIN. I suppose it will now be in order to move to amend the original motion? The VICE PRESIDENT. It is in order. The proposed amendment was again read. Mr. CLAY. I believe, sir, that is the precise proposition that was made the other day by the Senator from Missouri, and which was voted down. Mr. HAMLIN. If the gentleman had waited for a moment, I would have explained the reason why I offer this amendment. It is true that another proposition, similar to this, but embracing a larger number and greater variety of questions, was submitted a few days since, and it was voted down. The motion of the Senator from Mississippi now is less extensive than it was then, consequently the vote of the Senate to connect or dissever the questions then, cannot be considered tantamount to a vote to exclude a portion of them now; although I have myself no doubt that the action of the Senate will be the same now as it was then. It is my intention, and it is also, I believe, the intention of my colleague, to vote for no territorial bill that does not contain an express prohibition of slavery. We have been instructed by the Legislature of our State to that effect, and those instructions accord fully with our own views. Well, sir, being so instructed, and cordially approving of those instructions, I desire to present this proposition to the Senate, so that I may exhibit the evidence of my willingness to carry out that doctrine in good faith, and to vote for no measure by indirection which shall cover up a subsequent vote, and thus relieve me from those instructions. Therefore, I ask that I may have the privilege now of voting to dis by the committee, as I suppose we all understand they are to be, that then, when I am compelled to vote against the admission of California, on account of its being connected with other questions, if that contingency should arise, this amendment will show my desire to disconnect them. Mr. CLAY. The motion made the other day is precisely that which is now offered. It is in these words: to authorize the said committee to take into con"But nothing in the resolution shall be construed sideration any thing that relates to the admission of California into the Union." That is the resolution that was voted down. Mr. HAMLIN. I do not desire to offer any other reason than I have already offered, except to say that, upon the proposition then pending, no committee was then raised, and nothing grew out of it. There was an expres Ision of the opinion of the Senate, it is true; but under that motion no committee was raised, and the motion was subsequently withdrawn. If, under the present motion, a committee is to be raised, as I doubt not there will be, I desire to record my vote in favor of the separation of the subjects. Mr. CASS. Mr. President, I would suggest to the honorable Senator from Maine, whether he would not attain his object in a better manner by awaiting the report of the committee, and then by moving to separate California from the other subjects, should it be associated in the same bill with any other? The Senator desires that his position should not be misunderstood, and therefore wishes to have a vote now upon this question. As to the appointment of a committee, there is no danger of misunderstanding, because he has announced his objection to the measure, and will record his vote against it. He is presupposing that the committee will unite various subjects in the same bill, and wishes in advance in effect to pronounce upon it. This interpretation may not be correct. There may be no such reason, and in that event this measure would be wholly unnecessary. It would be a mere work of supererogation. If, on the contrary, the union should take place, it will then be as competent for the Senator to move a separation, as it is now to move a prohibition against it. The subject will be just as much in our power then as now, and it will be much more proper to act in that case, for we shall then be dealing with existing facts, and not with imaginary ones. And this same error, as to the course of the committee, seems to pervade all our discussions upon this subject. It is assumed that, because different subjects are to be referred to this committee, they must therefore be included in the same bills, and the one, therefore, made dependent upon the other; and this assumption, made, it appears to me, without the least 1ST SESS.] The Select Committee of Thirteen. [APRIL, 1850. authority, is then urged as a decisive argument | cursive debate I have never listened to. I against this proposition of reference. In the first place, sir, no one has a right to assume that such will be the case, and to make this bare assumption a ground of opposition to the proceeding. I agree with the distinguished Senator from Kentucky, that no committee would thus unite all the questions referred to it. I consider such a course out of the question; so much so as not to furnish, even to the most cautious, a reason for voting against this measure. I go further, sir: I do not believe that there will be any further union of subjects in the same bill than the junction of the ad-port they can; no man will be committed by mission of California with the governments of the territories; and I see a great fitness in that. But, sir, should the committee go further, and include more topics, what effect will that have? Just none at all, in opposition to the will of the majority. have little apprehension that, here or elsewhere, any martyrs can be made to the great cause of free discussion by the proceedings of to-day. All such allusions are, to say the least of them, in very bad taste. And what is to be the practical disposition of the labors of the committee? The subjects will come back to us reported upon by the committee; the whole matter will be within the jurisdiction of the Senate, and any proposition to amend can then be made as well as now. Let the subject go to the committee, and let them make the best rethe report whatever it may be; we shall be pledged to nothing the committee may do. All that is proposed is that, in the difficulties in which we find ourselves involved, a committee shall deliberate, and ascertain if some practicable plan cannot be devised for the settlement of the agitating subjects which now distract the country. Can any reasonable man Gentlemen seem to suppose that the report of the committee is to be like the laws of the Medes and Persians, not subject to any altera-object to this course? I freely confess I cantion or amendment whatever. And the Senator from Maine evidently acts upon the same supposition, when he makes his motion beforehand, to guard against a particular course of action on the part of the committee which he happens to disapprove. And permit me here to remark, that a great deal has been said about an understanding among Senators-a caucus of the leading members of this body, and much more of the same sort. This is certainly making a great matter out of a very small one. It is of little consequence whether there has been any caucus or not, or whether there be in reality such an understanding or not. I will say, however, that I have heard of no caucus, and know of no understanding upon the subject. If there be any such, I am utterly ignorant of it. And I repeat, it is a small matter to be placed so prominently before the Senate and the country-to talk so earnestly about caucuses and about leaders. I know nothing of either. I, for myself, am as little disposed to lead as I trust I am to be led. Now, here is a proposition to refer to a committee a grand subject, affecting the very existence of the Confederation. It is said to be unusual; but it must be remembered that the present condition of the country is unusual also. There is a proposition to refer all the questions connected with this grave subject to a committee. Well, what is the objection that is urged against this reference? A good deal has been said about instructions to the committee, and about an effort to check debate. Now, it seems to me that no reasonable man, who has listened to the debate that has taken place to-day, can suppose that there is any disposition to check debate. If this debate has been checked, it would require a wiser man than I am to tell what would be a free debate, or to what length of time or topics its course would lead us. Senators have pursued their own course in their own way, and a more dis not see how he can. I have listened to every word that has been said in the course of the debate, and my surprise has increased rather than diminished at the opposition which is exhibited. The proposition affords one hope the more for an accommodation of the differences that divide us. I said when this measure was first introduced, that my hopes of the advantages to be derived from it were by no means sanguine; and the course of proceeding in the Senate since that time has by no means increased my confidence in the result. I followed the honorable Senator from Kentucky in his declaration of similar views, as I am happy to follow him in his noble effort to preserve this Union, equally dear, I have no doubt, to him and me. But, whether my hopes or my appprehensions preponderate, as to the effect of this measure my course will be still the same. It may do good, and can do no harm. As I have said, it affords one chance the more of a happy termination of our troubles. If the committee make a report that will be satisfactory, we can adopt it and rejoice heartily at the happy result. If they do not, we shall then be no worse off than we are now, and must proceed to look our difficulties in the face, and to apply the best remedy which may then be left to us; and in any event it will be a grateful reflection that we have taken this step, deemed so important by many members of this body, and so urgently demanded by a large portion of the Union. And this consideration, were there no other, is decisive with me for supporting the proposition. It is indeed a small, a very small matter to yield in a spirit of conciliation; but it seems to be opposed with as much sternness of purpose, as if a sacrifice of the dearest interests of the country were demanded. I sympathize, sir, with no such feeling, nor indeed do I understand it. North or South, East or West, when great sectional questions are involved, if I could not yield the APRIL, 1850.] The Select Committee of Thirteen. [31ST CONG. principle at issue, certainly I would yield much | concessions are to be made to lead to a comas to the mode of its consideration, and as to promise in any given case, is always ready the process of adjustment. In no country to be determined by the circumstances. I under heaven is such a spirit more required than this; and if it prevailed more extensively, I should anticipate with more confidence than I now do, not merely the speedy settlement of the questions in dispute, but the restoration of those fraternal feelings without which, though there may be a political union, there can be no union of affection. It seems to be distinctly understood that the discussion of the subject of the admission of California is to go on, notwithstanding the reference to this committee; and before the discussion can be terminated under any circumstances, to judge by the progress made, the report will be received, and we shall then have made some progress towards a solution of our difficulties; we shall have done something, much indeed, I trust, towards the admission of California, and the establishment of the necessary territorial governments. I repeat what I have before said, that I consider the admission of California as certain as any event which has not yet happened, unless prevented by some process or machinery of legislation in the other House, such as has been alluded to here and elsewhere. I trust, however, that no such measures will be resorted to. I should consider it a course of action greatly to be deprecated. All we have to do is, to permit the committee to consult and bring back a report. A good deal has been said about compromises, as though, by the appointment of this committee, we were proposing to surrender some great principle lying at the foundation of our Government. Indeed, one might suppose, from the temper and earnestness displayed, that our whole social and political system was to be put to hazard by this very harmless attempt to adjust our troubles by a compromise committee. And such are our fears of this terrible word, that we have actually struck it out of the resolutions, where it had been very properly introduced, and made ourselves safe behind the shelter of its substitute, adjustment. Why, sir, neither the word nor the thing is so very terrible. This world is a world of compromise. From the cradle to the grave, human life is full of compromises. A man gives up some portion of his natural rights to secure the remainder; and from the beginning to the end of his years, the same principle marks his progress. He who stands upon his position with rigid inflexibility, and expects the world to bow before him, will soon find by experience, how much he has deceived himself. În the operations of all Governments there must be compromises. I suppose there never was a law passed which precisely met the views, in all particulars, of every one taking part in legisÎation. Each can see something which, in his opinion, might be improved; but each has to surrender something TO COMPROMISE, in order to attain the object in view. What mutual suppose no one dreams of the cession of any of the questions connected with the application of California. With the views I entertain, and have expressed upon that subject, I never can consent to compromise away her rights. Such a measure is disavowed in all parts of this chamber. But measures far short of that, from the indications we have received, would afford satisfactory grounds for adjustment. Many who object to the admission of California as an insulated proposition, have avowed their willingness to abandon their opposition, if that measure is connected to a bill for the government of the territories. Is that a compromise which involves any surrender of principle, or, indeed, of expediency? Is it not a small peaceoffering upon the altar of our country, if it is followed by the restoration of peace and harmony? As has been well remarked by the distinguished Senator from Kentucky, it will be fulfilling an obligation we have solemnly taken; it will give equally to the people acquired by the same treaty, the governments suited to their condition. It is, in fact, no compromise, but the performance of a duty. It is doing precisely what we ought to do, and what we have engaged to do. If the opposition to California can be removed by such an act-compromise, if you please to call it and that State brought into the Union more easily and more speedily, as I believe it can, I am in favor of it; as I should be opposed to it, were that great measure put to hazard. And I hold myself as free to act after the report of the committee as I am now-under no obligation, however slight, to accept it, unless I think it just and reasonable. And I am well satisfied that we shall secure the admission of California much sooner by this process than by any other, especially by endless opposition and endless discussion, of which this day has had its full share, as has many a day before, and as will many a day hereafter, if the same spirit prevails; and while we are thus talking about delay in the admission of California, that very delay is produced more by this cause than by all other causes put together. I am opposed to any instructions, for a most obvious reason. Would you make a farce of what should be a solemn measure? If you select thirteen members of this body as a committee of reference, have you not confidence enough in them to trust something to their discretion? If you have not, you had better abandon the project. Cannot you trust them to talk over this whole matter, and to tell you what they think of it, without fettering their thoughts and their tongues, and saying omit this and that subject, for we cannot trust you even to offer us an opinion upon it? Why, sir, no honorable man would serve upon such a committee, purporting to be organized for a great national purpose, and responsible in the eyes of 1ST SESS.] The Select Committee of Thirteen. [APRIL, 1850. act upon them. I think there is a difference in the two propositions. I proposed to keep from that committee a certain portion of the resolutions proposed to be submitted by the Senator from Mississippi. The amendment offered by the Senator from Missouri did not propose to withhold any of the resolutions, but to instruct the committee how to act after they had got there. the country for its proceedings and its recom- | resolutions should go, but that they should not mendations, but divested of all means of effecting any valuable object, and rendered impotent by the very act of its creation. I am willing to have the opinion of any thirteen members of this Senate upon this whole subject, and then I shall be as free as I am willing to consider their report in a spirit of respect, and to adopt just as much of it as I think the public interest requires. In the mean time, and while the committee is deliberating, I shall vote with the distinguished Senator from Kentucky for proceeding with the discussion respecting the admission of California, and making all the progress we can. Mr. BENTON. The amendment proposed by the Senator from Maine is now pending. The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair has been making inquiries, and now learns that this amendment was submitted to the original motion first, and that it was withdrawn, and was appended by the Senator to the motion now pending. The Chair, in comparing the amendments, finds a verbal difference. Mr. BENTON. Then the Chair decides that the amendment of the Senator from Maine is not now pending before the Senate? The VICE PRESIDENT. That is the impression of the Chair. The Chair is of opinion that it is out of order. Mr. HAMLIN. Will the Chair allow me to make an inquiry? Was there any amendment to the motion now pending? Mr. FOOTE. If the Senator from Maine will allow me, I think I can explain this. The other day, pending the amendment of the honorable Senator from Missouri, I submitted an amendment which gave the motion its present shape, so far as I recollect. I have a tolerably distinct memory of the fact, and I think the record will also show it. The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair understands, that after the present motion to refer the resolutions of the Senator from Tennessee and those of the Senator from Kentucky to a select committee, that then the Senator from Missouri submitted to that motion the following amendment: "But nothing in these resolutions shall be construed to authorize the said committee to take into consideration any thing which relates to the admission of California into the Union." And the vote was taken on it, and it was rejected; and now the Senator submits the following: "Except so much as relates to the admission of California as a State." Mr. HAMLIN. There are certain resolutions to accompany this resolution of the Senator from Mississippi to the Select Committee. My amendment is simply to prevent a part of these resolutions from going to that committee, leaving the rest of the resolutions to go to it. The other amendment was that the whole of the The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair reads the first amendment, in the following words: to authorize the said committee to take into con"But nothing in this resolution shall be construed sideration any thing which relates to the admission of California as a State into the Union." The present amendment is to except from the reference so much of the same as relates to the admission of California as a State. The only difference is, that in the one case they are proposed to be referred to the committee with instructions, and in the other without. Mr. FOOTE. Certainly; the action of the I committee must be the same in both cases. now understand the question to be decided by the Chair. The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair thinks it is a proper question for the Senate to decide. an Mr. BENTON. Then I understand that the amendment is pending, and I offer as amendment to the amendment the fourteen points of instruction; and I shall ask the vote of the Senate and the yeas and nays upon each of these fourteen points; and I will see whether or not the previous question is in force here yet. The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator from Missouri moves to amend the amendment by adding thereto the following: 1. With instructions that, in any bill, scheme, or other measure or measures they may report, they shall not connect the admission of the State of California with any other proposed legislation which shall require the assent of any other State to its completion. the State of California with any measure which is 2. That they shall not connect the admission of connected with a question of boundary or other controversy with any other State. 3. That they shall not connect the admission of the State of California with any other measure of less dignity than the reception and admission of a Sovereign State to be a new and entire member of this Union. 4. That they shall not make California a party to, or in any way include or connect her with, any provision in the nature or intent of a compact relating to slavery, or to any slave State or slave territory, other than the compacts of the constitution. to, or in any way include or connect her with, any 5. That they shall not make California a party provisions in the nature or intent of a compact of any description, other than the compacts of the constitution, and those compacts relating to the domain which have been heretofore required of new States formed out of the territory of the United States. |