Senator GORE. Mr. Chairman, ordinarily I would defer to my senior colleague, but since I come up for election first [laughter] I wonder if he would agree now that Albert Gore, Tenn., could be established before Estes Kefauver, Tenn.? [Laughter.]

Senator KERR. Without objection the suggestion is agreed to. Senator KEFAUVER. I am very happy to make that concession. I had not heard anybody in Tennessee trying to name a city after the senior Senator, I hope the junior Senator does better.

Senator CASE. Mr. Chairman, off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Senator HILL. Might I interrupt the Senator for a minute. I think for the sake of the record that it ought to be made very clear that Lister Hill, Ala. was not named by TVA. TVA had nothing whatever in any way, shape, fashion or form to do with the naming.

Senator GORE. Nor did the senior Senator from Alabama.

Senator HILL. I want to make it very clear that TVA had nothing to do with selecting the name.

Senator KEFAUVER. Mr. Chairman, speaking as someone who knows something about how it was named, in that part of Alabama there are a great many Republicans and Democrats, and I think that this choice of the name was unanimously approved by the Republicans as well as the Democrats to honor the senior Senator by naming this town Lister Hill, Ala.

Senator KERR. I would like to say for the record if my good friend from Tennessee will permit, that an accomplishment so appropriate and so worthy and so justified needs neither explanation nor apology in this forum.

Senator KEFAUVER. I think the chairman is very fair.

Senator COTTON. Mr. Chairman, off the record. (Discussion off the record.)

Senator CASE. Mr. Chairman, I noted with a great deal of interest, Senator Kefauver, that you have quoted from a report issued by the Joint Committee on Internal Revenue Taxation with respect to the amortization of emergency defense facilities and further that you note that Senator Byrd is chairman of the committee. Do you know whether or not Senator Byrd would favor the passage of S. 1869?

Senator KEFAUVER. I say to my friend from South Dakota I do not know, although I have heard Senator Byrd say that he hoped that some system for financing could be worked out for the TVA. I do not know that he is familiar with the terms of the various bills that we have on that subject.

Senator CASE. Did the committee make any specific reference to any planning of Government power facilities and this suggestion of a 20 percent excess?

Senator KEFAUVER. No, I do not think it made any recommendation with reference to Government-owned facilities.

Senator CASE. Did they use this 20 percent excess as a yardstick in measuring the acceptability of power facilities for rapid amortization? Senator KEFAUVER. That was the purpose of it and the report was to the effect that keeping our power facilities up to the 20 percent margin was a proper use of rapid amortization.

Senator CASE. And that the Government was warranted in extending rapid amortization to facilities necessary to provide that 20 percent excess?

Senator KEFAUVER. That is right. That was the purport of the report.

Senator CASE. That is very interesting.

Senator KERR. I will say to my good friend from South Dakota that the report is a committee report and that one of the authors of S. 1869 is a member of that committee.

Senator KEFAUVER. As I remember it is a unanimous report, is it not, Mr. Chairman?

Senator KERR. That is my recollection.

Senator HILL. Well, Mr. Chairman, might I interrupt there to say that you are the author of S. 1869-we others have just joined youyou are the author, Mr. Chairman.

Senator KERR. I want to say that I am very grateful for the associates that I have on it, but that I did feel like it was all right to put into the record that I am one of the members of the committee that made that report.

Do you have further observations?

Senator KEFAUVER. I wanted to point out, Mr. Chairman, that allowing TVA to come to the winter of 1959-60 with margin productions such a small amount in excess of its absolute needs is not in keeping with what this committee has said that electric utilities should have in order to meet the mobilization needs of the country and that if we should have greater defense needs as we may very well have between now and 1959-60, and in the future, that the TVA would not be in a position to furnish electricity to these great defense establishments which are located in the Tennessee Valley. So that for the defense need of the country I do hope that this legislation may be passed at this

session.

I wanted to point out also, Mr. Chairman, that I think all of us have the attitude, and we must have in this country and in the Congress, that we want to support legislation and do support legislation that may be considered only helpful to one section of the country because we build up any section that builds up the entire country. I have supported, as my colleagues have, legislation for the St. Lawrence seaway, for projects in California, for other sections of the United States, even though they had no particular connection with Tennessee or the State that I come from, because by building up other sections of the country we help the whole United States.

But, in the case of the TVA we do have this additional situation that the TVA has furnished one of the finest markets giving employment to people who work in factories in other parts of the country that we have in any section. The generators and the transmission facilities, the turbines, and the other heavy equipment which has been purchased in such large amounts by the TVA are not made in the TVA area, many of them are made in Pennsylvania or New York and Wisconsin. Some equipment is made in New Hampshire that comes to the TVA and every State in the Union has manufactured and furnished equipment and things that have been put into the TVA program. I also want to point out that this is not a political issue in any sense of the word. The TVA has been most scrupulous in seeing that politics has never played any part in the employment or in the operation of its great program.

I just came back last night from a visit in the eastern part of our State where I expect some of the counties are even more Republican

than any county in New Hampshire or any county in South Dakota or any county in Pennsylvania

Senator GORE. Or the United States.

Senator KEFAUVER. Or in the United States, that is true. We do have one county in eastern Tennessee, I think by the record it is the most Republican county anywhere in the United States.

Senator GORE. We have difficulty getting enough Democrats to hold the election.

Senator KEFAUVER. That is true.

Senator COTTON. It must be a wonderful county. [Laughter.] Senator KEFAUVER. Well now, it has great possibilities. [Laughter.]

It has tremendous possibilities and has made great advancement. But this securing authorization for the financing of itself is the big problem that people in that part of the State are worrying about just like they are all over the valley. They are united Republicans as well as Democrats in wanting the TVA to be able to carry on, to be able to issue bonds to finance its own development, and, of course, that is the section of Tennessee which has as its Congressmen Carroll Reece and Howard Baker who are Republican Congressmen and I am sure that my distinguished colleagues, Senator Cooper and Senator Morton who are fine friends of the TVA will say the same thing about many Republican parts of Kentucky, and for that matter, also, Mr. Chairman, this is not a point of view of any particular segment of our population. The corporations, the banks, the socalled private-big private enterprise operations in the Tennessee Valley are just as anxious that something be done about this as are the small business people and the farmers.

I remember that back when the TVA was first started that a Mr. T. R. Preston was the director of Commonwealth & Southern. He was for many years the president of the Hamilton National Bank group in Chattanooga, Knoxville, and other towns and cities in the valley. He was a very strong opponent of the TVA, of it coming into being, but in later years he became one of its strongest enthusiasts proclaiming the fine record that it made, how it had helped to give free enterprise a better opportunity in this great region and that is true all the way around.

So, we are pleading here, Mr. Chairman, not for something Democratic or not for something that is Republican, we are all joined in asking that Congress give the TVA this opportunity and all of our people are united in this request.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I will be happy to try to answer any questions, but I think Senator Hill has covered all the territory.

Senator KERR. Are there questions of Senator Kefauver?

Thank you very much, Senator.

Senator KEFAUVER. I think I should point out in this connection that the exchange of power, the selling of power between the TVA and the private utilities has, according to the testimony of the private utility people themselves, been a very satisfactory arrangement, it has been helpful to both. And I certainly hope that that economical arrangement which is so useful may be allowed to continue and that no limitation is going to be written into any bill which would prevent that.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Senator KERR. Thank you, Senator.

Senator John Sherman Cooper of Kentucky.

Senator COOPER. Mr. Chairman, may I ask how long the hearings will continue today?

Senator KERR. Well, how long will the Senator's contribution take? Senator COOPER. I think it would take some place in the neighborhood of 45 minutes to an hour.

Senator KERR. Then, if it is all right with the Senator and the committee, in view of the fact that there is a Democratic policy meeting at 12:30 that I must attend, how would it be if we recessed until 2:30 and the Senator come back and give us his statement then? Senator COOPER. Thank you very much.

Senator KERR. Is that all right with the other members of the committee?

Senator CASE. I was just wondering, Senator Morton, do you have a statement?

Senator MORTON. No.

Senator KERR. I understand Senator Morton said he has no statement to make.

Senator COOPER. I might say if I may have just a moment, Mr. Chairman, that I have introduced a bill, S. 1855, which has been discussed this morning, and it does atttempt to answer some of the questions that have been raised, and I think Senator Hill has raised some of those questions, too. I think it would take me 45 minutes to an hour to develop my testimony.

Senator CASE. Mr. Chairman, my only purpose in asking about Senator Morton, I thought if possible he had a short statement he could give it to us now.

Senator MORTON. I have no statement, Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

Senator COOPER. I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, I was very much interested in the statement of Senator Hill. I am always interested and inspired by what he says, and when he had this long discussion about the naming of the towns, the thought suddenly addressed itself to me that I doubt if John Sherman Cooper would ever be selected as the name of a town in this area.

Senator KEFAUVER. Mr. Chairman, on the record, I think that the possibility of a town or city John Sherman Cooper has great prospects because he is certainly highly respected in Tennessee. He might even get a town named after him in Tennessee.

Senator CASE. Mr. Chairman, one other question. I notice that General Vogel is here, who I understand expects to testify. Will we have his testimony this afternoon also?

Senator KERR. Well, Senator Sparkman has a statement to make. So far as I am concerned I will be glad to sit for 2 or 21⁄2 hours this afternoon, and we will just have to see how much can be brought in in that time. Do you have a suggestion?

Senator CASE. No, I have not. I just wanted to know so that we could all plan our programs.

Senator KERR. Then we will recess at this time and come back at 2:30.

(Whereupon, at 12:15 p. m., the subcommittee was adjourned to reconvene at 2:30 o'clock this day.)

93483-57——4

AFTERNOON SESSION

Present: Senators Kerr (chairman), Gore, Case, Cotton, and Hruska, committee members; also present: Senators Cooper, Sparkman, Kefauver, and Morton.

Senator KERR. Senator Cooper.

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN SHERMAN COOPER, UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF KENTUCKY

Senator COOPER. Senator Kerr, and members of the subcommittee, I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify not only on S. 1855, but on the general subject of the authorizing of TVA to undertake self-financing measures to meet its power needs.

I know that your committee, Senator Kerr, has had this matter under consideration for, I think, 2 years. I know also that you have introduced bills to enable TVA to undertake self-financing measures. And I want you to know that I have the greatest regard for what you and those who have sponsored these bills have done.

I recognize another fact, that there are many members of the Senate and House from the Tennessee Valley area who have lived there with TVA for many years and know a great deal more about it than I do.

I certainly enjoyed the testimony of Senator Hill this morning. He was one of the authors of the original TVA Act, and anyone who listens to him testify knows that he still has the spirit which animated the initiation and the passage of the original act.

I will proceed with my written testimony.

The purpose of S. 1855, which I have introduced, is to authorize the Tennessee Valley Authority to finance, by the issuance of revenue bonds, to the maximum amount of $750 million, generating facilities to supply power demands which will accrue in the present service area of the TVA in the 5-year period beginning in fiscal year 1961, or more specifically, in the winter of 1960-61.

In 1955, when this committee was considering bills authorizing the TVA to finance such generating facilities, there was disagreement concerning the extent of the authority that should be given to TVA, and the control that would be exercised by the Treasury, the Bureau of the Budget, and the Congress, over financing operations by the TVA.

Just recently I read the records of the hearings now being held by a subcommittee of the Public Works Committee of the House on H. R. 3236 and H. R. 4266, which propose self-financing by TVA. And I may say, you need only read the record to find that the same questions are being raised today by Members of the Congress.

A part of the area of my State, Kentucky, is served by TVA directly and by power exchange contracts. It happens that my own county is not served by TVA, but counties very near are. I live only 50 miles from the Tennessee line.

During my short service in the Senate I have joined with other representatives of the Tennessee Valley to support appropriations for TVA. And on occasion I have introduced upon their behalf and with them amendments to restore appropriations.