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draw mine, and I won't ask him, and you don't ask him. He is going to bring another one for you.

Senator GURNEY. You withdraw your question from the record ? Senator CHANDLER. Yes, sir.

Senator GURNEY. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that we withdraw his question from the record.

Senator REYNOLDS. All right, we withdraw two inquiries. Now, gentlemen, there is pending before this committee

Senator SCHWARTZ (interposing). I would like to make one suggestion, and that is that the amendments that have been offered here this morning that they be reduced to writing and turned over to Mr. Coy.

Judge PATTERSON. I think Mr. Coy took a copy. You copied in pencil while Senator Austin was speaking?

Mr. Coy. Yes, sir; I have Senator Austin's copy. I also have his words about putting in the words "requisition” and “use of."

Senator GURNEY. Will you also put down the proposition of adding to the modified proposal, add section 2 of Senator Chandler's proposal to the modified one, and put your “June 30, 1943," and then change the title? That is my suggestion.

Senator REYNOLDS. There are also suggestions of Senator Lodge and Senator Bridges and Senator Austin.

Senator CHANDLER. When are we going to meet again?

Senator BRIDGES. One thought, before you put the motion. I second Senator Lee's motion on the thing. I think, if it is so, as Mr. Coy indicates, the necessity of speed—I know that many of us have planscan we get some idea of when you will bring back this bill so we can make our plans accordingly? Judge PATTERSON. We can bring it back tomorrow, if


like. Mr. Cor. Tomorrow morning.

Senator HILL. Mr. Coy and Judge Patterson suggested bringing this back tomorrow morning.

Senator REYNOLDS. We have hearings on the selective service tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock, at which time we expect General Marshall.

Senator HILL. I don't think the Senate will be in session tomorrow. So far as I know, we have nothing on so what would you think about meeting tomorrow afternoon on this bill? You have everything scheduled tomorrow morning on the other matter. Meet here in this room tomorrow afternoon at half past 2 o'clock with Judge Patterson and Mr. Coy.

Senator REYNOLDS. At 2:30. And the public hearings will continue in the morning.

Senator LODGE. You won't have the public hearings in the afternoon?

Senator REYNOLDS. We won't have them in the afternoon because we deem this of such importance that we will defer the hearing of any witnesses on the selective-service matter until

Senator HILL (interposing). The next morning?
Senator REYNOLDS (continuing). The next morning.

Senator LEE. Shouldn't we hear this Navy man on this? We called him down here?

Senator REYNOLDS. That is the motion of Senator Lee. Before we vote on it, shouldn't we hear this Navy captain? We called him down here, we haven't had a report from the Navy.

Senator HILL. Can't we do this, Senator Lee! Can't we save time by having the member from the Navy join with the committee and Judge Patterson and Mr. Coy, and when the report comes back it will come back from these three gentlemen?

Senator LEE. I accept the amendment.

Senator REYNOLDS. The question is on the motion made by Senator Lee, which includes the suggestion made by Senator Hill.

All in favor of that please make it known by saying “aye.” Those opposed? The motion is carried. We will meet tomorrow afternoon at 2:30 p. m.

(Whereupon, at 12:45 p. m., July 16, 1941, the meeting was recessed until 2:30 p. m., July 17, 1941.)




Washington, D. C. The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 2:30 p: m., in the committee room, United States Capitol, Senator Robert R. Reynolds, presiding.

Present: Senators Reynolds (chairman), Lee, Schwartz; Hill, Downey, Chandler, Kilgore, Austin, Bridges, Gurney, Thomas (Utah).

Also present: Lt. Col. D. A. Watt, military aide; Wayne Coy; and Judge Robert P. Patterson, Under Secretary of War; C. A. Jones, head of the shipbuilding division, Navy Department, and Commander Cololough.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

Senator CHANDLER. Mr. Chairman, since the adjournment I have been working constantly in an effort to meet the objections to the bill to authorize the President of the United States to requisition property required for the defense of the United States.

I have attempted to draw a bill that the Secretary of War and the Assistant Secretary of War and the White House believed would accomplish the purpose for which the original request was made. There are very few changes in the bill, it is a very short bill and I would like those of you gentlemen, who no doubt will recall the bill of yesterday, to follow the changes. There are no material changes, they are clarifying changes, and I think perhaps that you gentlemen who were here yesterday may find that you can go along with these new changes. This is a new draft.

That whenever the President, during any period of war, or the present national emergency, but not later than June 30, 1943, determines that (1) the use of any military or naval equipment, supplies, or munitions, or component parts thereof, of machinery, tools, or materials necessary for the manufacture, servicing, or operation of such equipment, supplies, or munitions is needed for the defense of the United States, (2) such need is immediate and impending and such as will not admit of delay or resort to any other source of supplyand, gentlemen, that supply means the need for the use of such property for the defense of the United States, and (3) all other means of obtaining the use of such property for the defense of the United States upon fair and reasonable terms have been exhausted, he is authorized to requisition such property for the defense of the United States upon the payment of fair and just compensation in the mannerand so forth, and that is to take care of this lease-lend proposition, and to dispose of such property in such manner as he may determine is necessary for the defense of the United States.

Now, as I say, that is to take care of the lease-lend proposition.

No. 2 is substantially the same as it was yesterday, so I will not read it.

No. 3 is a new section, which has nothing to do with the acquisition of property, because it says

The President from time to time, but not less frequently than once every 6 months, shall transmit to the Congress a report of operations under this act.

The rest of the bill is precisely the same as it was yesterday.

I will say to you, Mr. Chairman and my colleagues, that I think this has the approval of the executive officers and has the approval of the War Department.

Senator CHANDLER. Has it the approval of the Navy Department?

Mr. JONES. Yes; that has been taken up with Mr. Forrestal and has his approval.

Senator CHANDLER. Mr. Chairman, I would now like to give the Senator from Vermont an opportunity to offer two amendments that he has prepared to this bill.

Senator HILL. Before you offer that amendment, I want to ask one question. I notice that the bill reads thatwhenever the President, during any period of war or the present national emergency, but not later than June 30, 1943.

Those words “during any period of war," I think, should be taken out. I have no real objection, but I am always thinking in terms of the passage of legislation and I can see where those words might be seized upon by the opposition to say, “Why, they are already making ready for war.” That is the first thing they would talk about-now, do not put this on the record.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Austin.

Senator AUSTIN. Now, I think the following words should be put right in there, “that during such time that a state of war does not exist by virtue of a declaration thereof by Congress, or the present national emergency,” my idea being that this is a period of war right now, and in order to differentiate between the present national emergency and that period during which we are under a declaration of war, we ought to so state. Now, I do not know whether this is worth anything to you or not, but I offer it in connection with the amendments I intended to offer later.

Senator CHANDLR. Mr. Chairman, let me change that to read, "that whenever the President, during the present national emergency, but not later than June 30, 1943." That will probably overcome some of the objections that were made yesterday.

Senator Austin. Yes; then if the emergency of war does exist, then we will be able to talk about it then, but during this period we need not.

Senator CHANDLER. Senator, do you want to take up your amendments now?

Senator AUSTIN. Yes; if it is convenient.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, it is the understanding of the chair that you have eliminated the words, “any period of war” there; is that correct, to leave that out?

Senator CHANDLER. I believe so, if there is no objection.

The CHAIRMAN. If there is no objection we will leave that portion out, Senator Austin.

Senator AUSTIN. I move that the bill be amended by adding to the first paragraph, section 1, the following language, a copy of which you all have and which is marked "No.1":

Provided, that during such time as a state of war does not exist by virtue of a declaration thereof by Congress, this authority shall not be exercised in any manufacturing plant, in operation, if the necessary and unavoidable consequence thereof would be the occasion of the business of such plant, or any parts thereof, dependent solely on the article or articles to be commandeered hereunder. I have

little to


about it. There is not much that is necessary to say. In the testimony at page 104, the following occurred:

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose the Government deems it necessary for the defense of the country, to take over certain property, they would use a considerable amount of discretion in taking over that property, I assume.

General RUTHERFORD. By all means.

The CHAIRMAN. And if a man is manufacturing goods for the defense program, of course, obviously he would not be interfered with.

General RUTHERFORD. That is right. I think, probably, we have not made it clear that the small manufacturer is not the one that would suffer most. If a small manufacturer has only one tool of a particular kind in his stock, it being a tool which was not necessary to the running of his factory to a capacity, it might be taken.

My thought is to make it impossible to take that step because of the admitted fact that we must keep our nonmilitary business still alive. We cannot close them up entirely, and it is for that reason that I offer this.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you make a motion that that be accepted now?

Senator CHANDLER. Mr. Chairman, Senator Austin and I have worked and talked together about this, and in view of the changes that I have worked out in the bill, I cannot accept the amendment, for the reason that we have taken out the second one now, and I am now assured by the War Department and the Navy Department that this bill will now accomplish the purpose I have no disposition to have a general law, but inasmuch as we have taken out the general right of requisition of property or any property necessary to national defense and have been more specific and held it to military and naval equipment or supplies, I do not believe you need that amendment to it now.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Lee.

Senator LEE. Mr. Chairman, I cannot help but believe this amendment would destroy the object of the bill because it would then resolve around the question of whether or not the taking of certain property would cause a plant to close down, and in a case where it did cause to close down, it would be for the Government of the United States to decide which was more important, to keep the military activities moving and the national-defense program going forward, or to keep some private business going. Therefore, I must oppose that amendment.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Hill.

Senator HILL. Mr. Chairman, lawyers have a way of trying cases in the extreme, and I think maybe that is the best way to try them. In other words, if you have a cosmetic plant operating and the Gov

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