chairman ask that person, Mr. Barlow, who is the person that has the judgment against the Government for $700,000, who is the person that is mentioned in the bill (S. J. Res. 156) that Mr. Maas mentioned a while ago-now will you, if the chairman or I ask that person to interview you between now and then, will you give us the benefit of such information as you can about the air mine that is being so much discussed?

I understand that on Monday we will have testimony from certain other people. Glenn Martin is one, and we will have the benefit of that information before Tuesday.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, Mr. Secretary, will you kindly comply with the Congressman's request? And, members of the committee, we will take a recess at this time.

Mr. SHANNON. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman asked to be excused here a moment ago. There is nothing to prevent him stepping out at any time.

Mr. MAAS. And you asked me to stay.

Mr. SHANNON. I want to say to you that I was sent here by my people, and you asked this committee to adjourn yesterday because you were going to deliver a speech over the radio. You asked this committee to adjourn at 11:45 yesterday so you could be present at all meetings. I did not protest against that, but I do think it was unbecoming of you to do that.

Mr. MAAS. Mr. Chairman, I do not think the gentleman from Illinois will object, but I think there ought to be stricken from the record your statement that the Assistant Secretary had some interest in bomb sights.

The CHAIRMAN. Oh, he did not mean it that way.

Mr. CHURCH. Certainly not.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, we thank you very much, and the committee will take a recess until 10 o'clock Monday morning, at which time Mr. Glenn Martin will be here, and I hope all of the members of the committee will attend.

(Whereupon, at 1:25 p. m., the committee adjourned until 10 a. m., Monday, February 28, 1938.)

ESTABLISH THE COMPOSITION OF THE UNITED STATES

NAVY

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 1938

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON NAVAL AFFAIRS,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Carl Vinson (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. Let the committee come to order.

This is a continuation of the hearing on H. R. 9218, and we have with us this morning Mr. Glenn L. Martin.

STATEMENT OF GLENN L. MARTIN, PRESIDENT OF THE GLENN L. MARTIN CO., BALTIMORE, MD.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Martin, will please give your full name, address, and occupation to the reporter?

Mr. MARTIN. Glenn L. Martin, Baltimore, Md., manufacturer of airplanes.

The CHAIRMAN. Was the wonderful flight to South America and return recently made by the Army accomplished with planes manufactured by you?

Mr. MARTIN. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you state the name of your company?

Mr. MARTIN. I am president of the Glenn L. Martin Co., which is a corporation engaged in the manufacture of airplanes.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Church, a member of the committee, indicated that he had some questions he would like to ask you, and, if it is satisfactory to the members of the committee, I will ask Mr. Church to propound such questions as he desires at this point.

Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Martin, I telephoned you asking you to come to this hearing, and you stated that you would refuse to come unless you were subpenaed. Will you please explain to the committee why you have come. I would like to have you state why you have come, after you had refused to come without a subpena.

Mr. MARTIN. I did not have a statement that I cared to make. I did not wish to present any data at this time, but when I was invited by the chairman to come over, or when he asked me to come, I said I would come and would answer such questions as he felt were important.

Mr. CHURCH. You were the designer and builder of the China Clipper and her sister ships, were you not?

Mr. MARTIN. We designed the China Clipper, the Hawaiian Clipper, and the Philippine Clipper, the three 52,000-pound ships now flying across the Pacific Ocean from San Francisco to the Orient.

Mr. CHURCH. They are the airships that are performing with remarkable regularity scheduled service across the Pacific, all three of them, for the last 2 years?

Mr. MARTIN. For 21⁄2 years they have been flying in scheduled service across the Pacific Ocean.

Mr. CHURCH. Will you give us a brief description of those modern air clippers? That is the name of them, I believe.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. CHURCH. Please give us a statement of their work with reference to the mail and passenger service.

Mr. MARTIN. Those ships weigh 52,000 pounds. They have a total of 4,000 horsepower. Of this gross weight of 52,000 pounds, 27,000 pounds is disposable load. That load can be divided up between crew, gasoline, or cargo. They can carry that load with a range of 4,600 miles, or over a shorter distance they can carry a considerably increased load of passengers, mail, and express. They have flown over 1,500,000 miles on the Pacific Ocean airway and are considered 100percent successful.

Mr. CHURCH. How many miles have they flown?

Mr. MARTIN. Over 1,500,000 miles on schedule across the Pacific, and they are considered successful.

Mr. CHURCH. I understand that you have recently built a greater flying boat than the China Clipper for the Russian Government. I understand that it is much larger than the China Clipper. Will you briefly explain that or give us a description of it?

Mr. MARTIN. The boat delivered to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics has a gross weight of 63,000 pounds. It has a fuel capacity for a range of over 5,000 miles. That ship is capable of carrying 26 passengers across the Atlantic Ocean, nonstop, with more than 4,000 pounds of mail and express, and carries a crew of 10. It has comfortable staterooms for the passengers; it has a galley and accommodations for the crew as well.

Mr. CHURCH. When you say 63,000 pounds gross weight, does that include the weight of the ship itself?

Mr. MARTIN. The ship itself, under that particular design, weighs 31,000 pounds, and carries a disposable load of 32,000 pounds, so that the weight of the ship itself is 31,000 pounds.

Mr. CHURCH. So the 63,000 gross weight includes the weight of the ship itself?

Mr. MARTIN. The 63,000 pounds includes the 31,000 pounds weight of the ship and the 32,000 pounds capacity which may be used for crew, gasoline, and cargo.

Mr. CHURCH. Do you mind telling the committee the price they paid you for that clipper or flying boat?

Mr. MARTIN. We received over $1,050,000 for the plane, with the right to reproduce it.

Mr. CHURCH. Who would have the right to reproduce it?

Mr. MARTIN. They would have the right to reproduce it for their own use, but not for sale to any other country.

Mr. CHURCH. Who would do the reproducing?

Mr. MARTIN. Russia.

Mr. CHURCH. Are they to build or reproduce it under the contract, or is it provided in the contract that they may build them, or continue to reproduce them?

Mr. MARTIN. I do not know whether they will build or reproduce them or not. They have bought the ship and the right to reproduce it. They may make some arrangement to reproduce it if they wish to do so for use in their own country.

Mr. CHURCH. If you undertook to reproduce that ship in quantity, have you any general idea of what the cost would be?

Mr. MARTIN. It would be dependent upon the quantity, of course. It would be approximately $650,000 produced in reasonable quantity, but if produced in large quantity, the price would be considerably less.

Mr. CHURCH. Under your contract, do you still have the right, regardless of the contract, to reproduce that kind of ship?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; we can make duplicates of it, or we could change it in any manner we see fit. We have in no way sold the exclusive right in anything to any foreign country.

Mr. CHURCH. Do you know who contemplates making that same ship, or copying it, for the Russian Government?

Mr. MARTIN. I do not know what their plans are.

Mr. CHURCH. What manufacturers have the facilities for making it over there?

Mr. MARTIN. I do not know whether they have, or not. I have never been in Russia.

Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Martin, before getting into the matter of aircraft and their potentialities for the national defense, I would like to ask you several questions. I have prepared these questions so as to get the whole story before the committee in a brief way. First, I want to ask this question regarding Mr. Lester P. Barlow; I understand that you have known him for a number of years.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. CHURCH. And you have always had his confidence in the matter of his secret munitions developments, and you probably have some knowledge of Mr. Barlow's 10 minutes of testimony before this committee last week. Are you acquainted with the testimony he gave before our committee last week?

Mr. MARTIN. I have not read his testimony. Mr. Barlow has been in confidence with me from time to time on his various designs, and he has shown me some of his plans for an aerial mine. I do not know what he testified about except what I read in the papers. Mr. CHURCH. You have known him for a number of years? Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. CHURCH. Do you have confidence in his secret munition developments?

Mr. MARTIN. Mr. Barlow has contributed some important and ingenius mechanisms for ordnance. I consider him a good engineer, and a man capable of designing good structures for ordnance. He has also contributed considerable to steam engineering. He has contributed, in my opinion, a great deal of advanced matter in steam. engineering. His work has been constructive, and he has constructed some good mechanisms.