Mr. BREWSTER. That is what we are concerned with here. We have all through the discussion here contemplated a defense program on the line indicated on the map. Everybody has apparently been agreed on that, at least. That does contemplate a base at Hawaii, 2,000 miles off the coast.

Admiral DUBOSE. Approximately.

Mr. BREWSTER. Assuming a fleet defending that area-I do not believe my friend is confining the fleet within that area-assuming the fleet is defending that area, why would that require a greater cruising radius than the British who have the seven seas?

Admiral DUBOSE. The British battle fleet, just as our battle fleet, is kept concentrated. The British battle fleet is either in home waters or in the Mediterranean, as a rule, and to operate in those waters would not require anything like as great a cruising radius as required for our ships to operate on this assumed defense line in the Pacific. You have to go to your line, you have to stay there a reasonable time, and you have to get back. That is one of the great difficulties of aircraft today. They are capable of going long distances, but to carry the fuel for them to go and to come back does not leave very much in the way of a fighting load in many cases. That is one of their problems.

Mr. BREWSTER. We can conclude that the question of a defensive armament is definitely related to the cruising range.

Admiral DuBOSE. It is not. I stated that the standard displacement of 35,000 tons which is available takes into account hull, machinery, ordnance, and armor. Those are the three main weight subdivisions. Machinery means speed or the weight assigned machinery means speed. You must have a certain weight for the hull to carry your load, the load being the machinery, the armor, and the guns. There is an irreducible minimum, the bare hull weight. You want the ship to have a certain speed and that means a certain machinery weight. You have to decide how much of this 35,000 tons you are willing to put into machinery, and how much you need for the bare hull to carry the various weights and you have the remaining weight which can be used for battery and armor protection, and then you can decide whether to put so much into the main armor or effect a compromise. Having done so you come out with 35,000 tons. Now you have a ship which has a certain capacity inside her, certain tanks in which you can put fuel oil, and the more fuel oil the further you can go but of course the greater the displacement of the ship. With 35,000 standard tons the cruising radius is not affected by the weight devoted to armor or armament.

Mr. BREWSTER. Do I understand that there need be no relation between armor and fuel capacity?

Admiral DuBose. Not necessarily.

Mr. BREWSTER. I did not ask not necessarily. I asked if there need be no relation between armor and fuel capacity.

Admiral DuBose. Not on 35,000 standard tons. The point I am making is that under the treaty limitation fuel does not enter at all into the 35,000 standard tons.

Mr. BREWSTER. I am not talking of the treaty.

Admiral DuBOSE. I am talking not only of the treaty but a practical problem, the problem of building a battleship, and the best

battleship that can be designed on 35,000 standard tons. We do not consider fuel radius in connection with that except we have to have the space in the ship to carry the fuel, but the weight assigned of the fuel does not enter into our calculation of 35,000 standard tons at all.

Mr. BREWSTER. There is no limitation of law or treaty which would prevent your laying down a ship at larger than 35,000 tons at the present time. Is that correct?

Admiral DuBOSE. Yes. Assuming that the United States avails itself of the escape clause in the treaty.

Mr. BREWSTER. If we notify them tomorrow that we would not limit it to 35,000 tons, we can go ahead?

Admiral DuBOSE. That is correct.

Mr. BREWSTER. That would apply to all of the 12 battleships which we might build in the next 8 years under the existing law and treaty. Admiral DuBOSE. That is correct.

Mr. BREWSTER. Is that the right number?

Admiral DuBose. I did not mean to say 12 was the right number. We could build replacement battleships of any tonnage assuming the three powers abolish their agreement.

Mr. BREWSTER. Is there much change in the speed in battleship development?

Admiral DUBOSE. Answering the question in general terms, the speed of battleships is being increased by all nations as compared with what they had many years ago.

Mr. BREWSTER. It runs from 18 to 21 knots?

Admiral DuBose. Our battle fleet speed today was stated by Admiral Leahy to be 21 knots and that is comparable to the battle fleet speed of other nations.

Mr. BREWSTER. But the fleet is always confined to the speed of the slowest vessel.

Admiral DuBose. The cruising speed of the fleet is set so as to conserve fuel and permit the slowest vessels to keep up readily, but if they were going at full speed they would be confined to the speed of the slowest ship.

Mr. BREWSTER. If they got off in a battle they could not go off and leave the slower ships.

Admiral DuBOSE. When the fleet is going at the maximum speed, the speed would be the maximum speed of the slowest vessel.

Mr. STACK. I am very much interested in your proposed amendment to section 2 of the pending bill. I believe you testified that our maximum capacity in three Government yards as far as battleship building is concerned was what?

Admiral DuBOSE. Five, I stated, two ways at New York, two ways at Philadelphia, and one at Norfolk.

Mr. STACK. If your proposed amendment is accepted and the bill becomes a law, what could the maximum capacity of the New York yard be?

Admiral DuBOSE. There is no space available within the present limits of the New York Navy Yord to provide any additional battleship ways.

Mr. STACK. How about the Philadelphia yard, the League Island Navy Yard?

Admiral Du BOSE. The Philadelphia Navy Yard today has two ways suitable for battleship construction, and there is a space adjoining the existing ways where it would be possible to provide five. additional battleship ways.

Mr. STACK. In Philadelphia you could build seven battleships, taking advantage of this amendment.

Admiral DUBOSE. Provided you build the five additional ways and build everything else that goes with ways.

Mr. STACK. Have you an organization in Philadelphia now, a potential organization that within a comparatively short time would be capable of taking care of seven battleships?

Admiral DuBOSE. While the existing organization at the Philadelphia Navy Yard is exceedingly competent and highly skilled and well trained, to undertake a huge program of building seven battleships at one time would be impracticable as it would require too long a time to get the necessary people and to provide facilities. It could be done but it is not a matter of a short period of time.

Mr. STACK. From the natural location there you have a lot of facilities. In other words you have train connection, railroad connections, fuel oil people, and steamship connections with South America.

Admiral DUBOSE. There are undoubtedly many natural advantages in the Philadelphia Navy Yard, yes.

Mr. STACK. How many more battleships could you build at the Norfolk Navy Yard with your amendment?

Admiral DuBOSE. The Norfolk Navy Yard has space available for the provision of one additional set of battleship ways.

Mr. MAGNUSON. In spite of the fact that the fundamental purpose of this bill is defense I think it has also its economic side. Materials from how many States go into the construction of the battleship? Admiral DUBOSE. There was a tabulation prepared and published in the New York Herald-Tribune of June 22, 1933. The information in that article, I believe, was obtained by the writer from the Navy Department, not officially in the sense that it was not a formal written communication but he did contact various people in the Navy Department to get the information, and the article is substantially correct as indicating the widespread sources from which materials entering into ship construction are obtained. This article shows that materials required for the construction and equipment of a $15,000,000 naval ship-the particular type of ship referred to was a 10,000-ton cruiser-are obtained from 44 States of the Union that are mentioned as providing materials, some of them of relative small financial amounts and others of considerable amounts, but the total value of the materials that entered into the construction of this 15,000-ton ship was $7,600,000, for materials that were obtained from practically all the States of the Union.

The CHAIRMAN. May I call attention to a chart that we put in the record when we had a statement on the progress of our building program in 1934?

Admiral DuBOSE. I will insert it in the record.

(The statement referred to is as follows):

Does your State participate in shipbuilding? This chart will show you

Mr. MAGNUSON. The total cost of the materials was $7,600,000? Admiral DuBOSE. $7,600,000.

Mr. MAGNUSON. What proportion did that $7,600,000 bear to the total cost of the materials?

Admiral DuBOSE. The total cost of the cruiser was $15,000,000, roughly 50 percent for the materials.

Mr. MAGNUSON. From 44 States of the Union.

Admiral DUBOSE. Yes.

Mr. MAGNUSON. Some States contributed small amounts and others a great deal.

Admiral DUBOSE. Yes.

Mr. MAGNUSON. What part does manganese play in the construction of a battleship?

Admiral DuBose. I have no information as to the absolute amount or quantity of manganese required, but it is a very important mineral required in connection with providing steel for the ships.

Mr. MAGNUSON. Do you know what part it plays in the construction of steel? Can steel be constructed without manganese?

Admiral DuBOSE. You can produce steel without manganese but there are certain classes of steel that need manganese.

Mr. MAGNUSON. Do we have any source of supply in the United States?

Admiral DUBOSE. We are trying to develop a source of supply now and there is promise of the development of a domestic supply. Mr. MAGNUSON. Could a modern battleship such as contemplated in this bill be built with a type of steel that does not contain manganese?

Mr. BATES. Tell the gentleman what manganese does, hardens the steel and increases its tensile strength.

Admiral DuBose. There are various alloys required in connection with steel, and in ship construction as well as in other steel construction manganese is sometimes an essential element.

Mr. MAGNUSON. Do we import all the manganese used now?

Admiral DuBOSE. I think we do. There is a bill pending in Congress in which provision has been made for purchase of so-called strategic materials, and money has been provided by Congress for stocking up on tin, manganese, etc.

The CHAIRMAN. The funds are in the naval appropriation bill. Admiral DUBOSE. Yes.

Mr. MAGNUSON. That is the policy today so far as you know. Admiral DuBOSE. To maintain stocks of the essential war materials not produced in this country.

Mr. MAGNUSON. You testified that there were 11 ways the east coast might build battleships, private and navy yards.

Admiral DuBOSE. I made a statement that that was my understanding at that time. I have definite information now. The total number of ways available in private shipyards is 5, and in navy yards 5, so that there are 10 ways actually in existence today on which battleships could be laid down.

Mr. MAGNUSON. How many ways are there on the Pacific coast! Admiral DuBOSE. Battleship ways?

Mr. MAGNUSON. Yes.

Admiral DuBOSE. None.