Senator MCKELLAR. Here is what I am thinking of. If you are getting a $70 typewriter for $60, now probably these others could be bought for less.

Senator COPELAND. I do not have the figures, as to the width, the wider width, but I am not particular about your changing this $70, but I would like to have it made possible to buy the noiseless typewriters. If you had seen the effects as I have in my office, in New York, where we could not live in the office if we had noisy typewriters, you would see the importance of this. But, there is no occasion for this now, in view of the fact that the price has now been made the same and that you can buy the noiseless typewriters at the same price. I think it is a reasonable request to make. Senator ODDIE. Just at this point

Senator SMOOT. You can see that there is only one way to do that, Senator, and that would be to limit or change the provision so as to let the provision not apply to distinctly quiet machines, quiet in operation, costing less than $70.

I say that you could limit that.

Senator COPELAND. The purpose of that provision, at first, was to prohibit the additional expense.

Senator SMOOT. On account of the expense; yes.

Senator COPELAND. And so it was decided that nobody should be permitted to buy a noiseless machine without the consent of the head of the bureau.

Now, the noiseless machines have been brought down in price. Senator SMOOT. That is all that you would have to do; amend that provision so that it would provide for it in that way.

Senator COPELAND. Standard typewriting machines.
Senator SMOOT. Distinctly quiet in operation.

Senator COPELAND. And not to cost in excess of

Senator SMOOT. Not to cost in excess of $70.

Senator MOSES. It seems to me that you should strike out the provision in line 21.

Senator GLASS. Yes.

Senator SMOOт. Then, you can buy machines most any way, machines up to $70, any kind of machines.

Senator GLASS. Strike out, beginning with the word "or" in line 16, and strike out on down to the bottom of that page.

Senator ODDIE. Is there a representative of the Treasury Department here who can discuss this?

Senator BROUSSARD. Could we not save time, if the Senator is through with his statement, to discuss this in executive session?

Senator ODDIE. I am going to ask the Treasury Department officials if these prices are not all too high, if it is not possible to have a reduction all along the line.

Senator SMOOT. They do not have to pay it now.

Senator MCKELLAR. If they do not have to pay that for the machines.

Senator SMOOт. They may have to.

Senator McCKELLAR. Yes.

Senator BROUSSARD. I suggest that we go on with the hearings and then we can take that up when we come to write up the bill.

1

ELECTRIC TYPEWRITERS-AUTOMATIC

Senator COPELAND. There is one other matter on page 7, line 8, after the word "machines," I would like to have inserted" and automatic electric typewriting machines."

They have now a machine which is automatic, which can be advantageously used in departments where they want to make a number of original copies of the same letter. They have electric typewriting machines which do that work automatically.

Senator MCKELLAR. Would that not be subject to a point of order? Senator COPELAND. I Would not think so.

Senator MCKELLAR. It is new legislation.

Senator MOSES. You would have to change that. They cost about $700.

Senator COPELAND. I do not think that there would be any objection, because the head of the department would have to decide that that could be done, so I would respectfully request that the chairman be authorized to present that as an amendment.

Senator GLASS. We can do that, consider that, when we write up the bill.

Senator COPELAND. Senator McKellar makes the point that it would be subject to a point of order. That is the reason that I hope that you can put that provision in.

Senator BROUSSARD. Mr. Chairman, let us proceed with the hearings.

Senator ODDIE. Mrs. Kahn, of California, is here, and would like to make a statement before the committee on this matter. She represents and lives in San Francisco, Calif., and is well informed. STATEMENT OF MRS. FLORENCE P. KAHN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Mrs. KAHN. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I came in to protest against the abolishment of the office of appraiser and surveyor of the port and collector of the city of San Francisco. According to the bill they have been abolished, apparently on the point of economy. It seems to me an expression of very poor economy. It certainly would wreck the service in the port of San Francisco if those offices were abolished.

Senator MCKELLAR. You have a comptroller, a surveyor, and a appraiser, and they are all abolished.

Mrs. KAHN. I understand that. I did not hear Mr. Mills's statement. I do not know whether he has recommended that the collector at San Francisco be retained. I was not here when he made his recommendations, but I certainly feel that the appraiser should be retained. He is a definite check on the collector, and should certainly be retained.

That is a large, important port, and the work there has been well done, and I feel that the service of that office certainly is definitely needed there.

Senator SMOOт. You are speaking more particularly of the collector than the appraiser?

Mrs. KAHN. I am speaking of the appraiser now.

Senator SMOOт. You are speaking of the appraiser?
Mrs. KAHN. Yes.

Senator MOSES. He is not a check on the collector.

Mrs. KAHN. I think he is a check on the collector.

Senator MOSES. The comptroller is the only check on the collector. The President fixes the duty at which the imports shall be assessed. Senator SMOOT. Is there anything else?

Mrs. KAHN. No; nothing else. I just simply came over to register my deep regret that these offices should be abolished. It seems to me that these offices are vitally necessary to the service.

Senator ODDIE. The committee will give that careful consideration. Thank you Mrs. Kahn for the interesting and helpful data you have presented to us.

Senator ODDIE. Is there anything further under that heading? Senator COPELAND. I had one other item, Mr. Chairman. Senator ODDIE. What page?

Senator COPELAND. Page 57.

STATEMENT OF HON. ROYAL S. COPELAND, A SENATOR FROM THE

STATE OF NEW YORK

OCEAN MAIL CONTRACTS

That is in connection with the merchant marine act, ocean mail contracts.

Senator ODDIE. That is under the Post Office Department section of this bill?

Senator COPELAND. That is in this bill.

Senator MOSES. The Post Office Department's section of the bill. Senator ODDIE. We have not yet come to that.

Senator MCKELLAR. We can let him make his statement.

Senator ODDIE. You may make your statement, Senator, and it will be inserted in the record in its proper place.

Senator COPELAND. It is well known that the purpose of this is that there are certain lines, like the International Mercantile Marine, the Grace Line, the United Fruit, and the Munson Line that operate some ships under foreign flags and if this were passed, it would exclude them from bidding on the carriage of the mails.

I want to remind you of the fact that the International Mercantile Marine that those British ships that are owned by this concernwere offered for sale and bids were had on them, and the bid which was received was to be accepted by the concern when President Wilson intervened and urged the company not to permit these boats to go out of our service, at that time, war times; and so, because of that, they did not divest themselves of ownership of those British ships and, of course, since then, shipping has gone to pot and there has been no chance to make any sale.

I think it would be very disadvantageous to the American merchant marine to put this rider, which has been presented here, into the bill, because it would prohibit any further contract with these great liners which are now carrying mail to the important ports of the world; and so I urge most strongly that what is known as the Davis rider, this provision at the bottom of page 57, be omitted when you come to write up the bill.

Senator MCKELLAR. Senator, is it not a fact that the International Mercantile Marine has a contract with the British Government, in the event of war, its ships shall be turned over to the British Government?

Senator COPELAND. Admitting all of that, Senator McKellar, and I have no reason to question it, nevertheless you have the bear by the tail. The International Mercantile Marine has the ships which they bought under those old conditions, and they have not been able to divest themselves of them.

Senator MCKELLAR. Senator, you do not think that we ought to give a mail subsidy to foreign ships?

Senator COPELAND. I am not arguing particularly for that line. Senator MCKELLAR. Well, is that not what it will mean?

Senator COPELAND. It means that, so far as that line is concerned, and it also applies to the United Fruit, the Grace Line, and the Munson Line, and to take the mail contracts from those lines would put them in bankruptcy.

Senator MCKELLAR. Why do they not decide whether they want to be American ships or not?

Senator STEIWER. They have. They want to be American ships. They are on the road to it, but they just can not make adjustments at this moment.

Senator COPELAND. They are willing to become American ships. Senator STEIWER. I have made some inquiries. In normal times, within a year or two years, the turnover would be made. They would like to go under the American flag. They would like it first rate. They have offered to do it. I think they would immediately. Senator COPELAND. And, they are aiming to do it.

Senator SMOOT. What is the objection?

Senator MCKELLAR. Why can they not do it, if they want to? Senator SMOOT. Why can they not do it?

Senator STEIWER. We prevent it; the law prohibits them from changing their registration. If we would change the law, these lines will come under the American flag in 10 days' time, probably. They want to do it. The Shipping Board wants them, too, but we prevent it ourselves.

Senator GLASS. One thing that is continuing to prevent it is that we have these people coming up here, lobbying, and telling us that it is contrary to the interests of the American seamen, and all that kind of thing.

Senator SMOOT. What do the American seamen think about it? Senator MOSES. You mean Andrew Furuseth.

Senator SMOOT. That is what I mean.

Senator STEIWER. They would come under the American flag if they were permitted to do so.

Senator MCKELLER. I do not see any reason why we should give them a subsidy. That is really what it means. I do not think that we should subsidize-ought to subsidize-American ships, much less foreign ships.

Senator COPELAND. You understand that you are not appropriating any money to carry the mails on foreign-flag ships, but this makes it impossible for the line which has foreign flags in addition to American ships, from having any subsidy for the American-flag ships.

Senator SMOOT. Well, of course, that would give them a better chance to drive the American ships off the ocean.

Senator COPELAND. I think that it is entirely proper to eliminate this.

Senator MOSES. These lines have ships sailing under the flag of Guatemala and other Latin American countries.

Senator BROUSSARD. Here is the situation as it exists and has been presented to me, and I have had some information for some time, because this applies to contracts for the carriage of mails, and it applies to steamship lines out of New Orleans. They go to Honduras or to Guatamala, or Nicaragua; they put one or two of their ships under that flag. Those ships are American owned, and, in case of war, they will be brought under American registry and will be subject to the rules of the Shipping Board.

It was with the permission of the Shipping Board that they have assigned ships to Honduras, so that Honduras would have a flag on the seas, more for maintenance of relations with that government, having ships out of their ports flying their flag, that they do it. Senator COPELAND. I can verify that statement.

Senator BROUSSARD. That ship, carrying that flag, does not get a

contract.

Senator COPELAND. The ship carrying the American flag gets the contract.

Senator BROUSSARD. Yes. But those ships are operated under the Honduras flag, but they are American owned, and in case of war they will come right back under our flag. They did in the last war.

Senator MCKELLAR. Let me give you an illustration, or a fact, in reference to this Seatrain Co. This Seatrain Co. was formed for the purpose of getting subsidies in carrying the mails from New Orleans to Havana. They now have a much more beneficial contract going down from Key West and crossing there, but the Postmaster General offered an advertisement, or made an advertisement, providing that only ships could bid on this contract that had a capacity of carrying 90 mails cars of mail on a ship, and that cut out the others to Havana, and it cut out every concern from Florida, and not only from Florida, but other southern ports to Havana, except solely and alone this one concern that had one of these ships of the capacity of 90 cars, and there was no evidence whatsoever that they needed a ship with that capacity.

Senator BROUSSARD. That is an American steamship company today. It is carrying the American flag and is American owned, and is to build another.

Senator COPELAND. That was a ruling of the Postmaster General, as a matter of fact.

Senator BROUSSARD. That affects three or four lines.

Senator MCKELLAR. That shows what we are getting into with this kind of a thing.

Senator COPELAND. Senator McKellar, let me appeal to you.
Senator MCKELLAR. It has not been carried out yet.

Senator COPELAND. In order to reach that single case, this proposal would destroy the Munson Line, the United Fruit, and the Grace Line, to say nothing of the International Mercantile Marine. Senator MCKELLAR. Then you have no objection to the first part of the provision