There is no other nation on earth that ever has, to my knowledge, in the light of my investigation of the subject, permitted any such thing as we are permitting. The foreign countries maintain their merchant marines absolutely, and nothing else. For instance, Italy has a law under which an Italian citizen can not leave an Italian port and can not enter an Italian port except upon an Italian ship. With the possible exception of England, the other maritime countries have even stricter coastwise laws than we have.

Right on the question of mail, to show you the sort of treatment we get from other countries, I have had furnished to me the actual transportation of mails upon ships in the north Atlantic under foreign flags and under American flags.

Senator MOSES. Judge Davis, suppose you put that complete tabulation in the record, but pick out any of the salient features that you want to comment on in your oral testimony.

Senator MCKELLAR. Yes; if he will do that, I think that is a good suggestion.

Representative DAVIS. I am not going to read all of it.

Senator MCKELLAR. Senator Moses suggests that you comment on those that you wish to comment on.

Senator MOSES. Put the complete tabulation into the record, and then, in your oral testimony, comment upon any of the salient facts that present themselves.

Representative DAVIS. All right.

I have here data with respect to this matter for the year 1929. The Leviathan is perhaps the largest vessel afloat, and is certainly as speedy as any of them, with the exception of the Bremen and the Europa, the new German ships. Sailing between British and French ports and New York, the Leviathan made 12 voyages during that period, and the Leviathan and all of the other American ships combined got only 233 sacks of mail coming from British ports to the United States.

Senator MCKELLAR. Two hundred and thirty-three?

Mr. DAVIS. In other words, just 233 sacks of mails delivered to her to be paid for, while these others were given that on a poundage basis, in accordance with the international postal rates.

Senator BROUSSARD. During that same period?
Senator ODDIE. How long a period was that?
Senator MOSES. That was in 1929?

Mr. DAVIS. The figures I have extend from April 26 to December 6, 1929, not quite a year, about nine months.

During that same period, I just want to call your attention to the amount received by the British ships, chiefly. June 4, 5,900 sacks: June 6, more than 6,815 sacks; and all through that year, those different ships, most of which were much slower than the Leviathan and slower than some of these other American ships that were included, and yet they received all of the way from 3,300 sacks to 10,121 sacks on individual voyages, and some of these sailings were a day or two before and some of them were held for a sailing a day or two after the Leviathan, which would leave there with a half a dozen or so sacks, the largest amount that the Leviathan ever received being 55 sacks.

Senator THOMAS. How do you account for that inequality; how do you account for it?

Mr. DAVIS. That just shows you some of the treatment that they have been giving us, Senator. So that is the situation. It has been frequently charged and, in my opinion, it is largely true, that the foreign shipping interests have for years and years largely dominated American shipping, and, in fact, consider the difficulties we have in getting through legislation similar to this to protect our American merchant marine; they come here and by this way, that way, and the other, and by propaganda defeat legislation along the same line. They always have been doing that, and they are lobbying against this amendment now.

There is a regulation in our Post Office Department to the effect that even though we have these mail contracts with American ships. to carry the mail, yet if the delivery will be expedited over 24 hours, the mail shall be delivered to foreign ships instead of American ships. Senator MCKELLAR. Have you got

Mr. DAVIS. Right in that particular

Senator DAVIS. Let him go on, Senator.
Senator McKELLAR. Go ahead.

Mr. DAVIS. Right in that particular, I am informed by the former president of the United States Lines who operated the Leviathan and other ships, that there is not any doubt at all but that the English and French and other Governments would hold mails as long as 72 hours, and even 96 hours, in order to deliver them to one of their ships rather than to an American ship. Now, that sort of business goes on all of the time, and yet when we go to talk about protecting the American merchant marine and our ships against foreign ships, why, the question is, "Now, is that fair?" That question is raised, and all of that.

Now, there is no danger of us pursuing a course that is any more drastic against the foreign merchant marine than they use against ours. We get the hot end of it in various ways, not so much in law as in actual practice, and the more you look into it the more you will see that that is true.

We all complain. I have, in public speeches and otherwise, complained that American citizens are not as loyal as the American merchant marine as the nationals of other countries are loyal to theirs. If we supported our merchnt marine as travelers and shippers to the extent that the nationals of other countries support theirs, you would not need any aid at all; but in my opinion, from expressions by many, one reason there is not a more popular sentiment in this country in favor of the American merchant marine is there is a feeling abroad in the land which is expressed sort of this way, “ Oh, well, we have not got any merchant marine. It is dominated and controlled by British and other interests, and they fill up our ships with alien seamen, and they are giving aid to companies that are doing more to build up foreign shipping lines than they are our own," and so forth.

What is it you wanted to ask, Senator?

Senator DAVIS. Go ahead.

Mr. DAVIS. Now, for instance, you take the International Mercantile Marine Corporation. I forget just how many subsidiaries they have.

I am going to put this statement in the record.
Senator ODDIE. That will go in the record.

(The tabulation above referred to is as follows:)

Statement showing the total number of mails conveyed to New York by the fast Cunard and White Star steamers during the period from June to November, 1929, inclusive, and also showing the approximate number of mails in each dispatch that was of English origin (as of December 10, 1929)

BRITISH MAILS, WESTBOUND VOYAGES

DECEMBER 9, 1929.

In response to your verbal request, I am showing in the subjoined all mails of British origin that were embarked at Southampton on vessels of the United States Lines since such vessels have been under private ownership.

Mr. DAVIS. They have shown that here. I will give you this. For instance, first, we find the Red Star Line operating from New York to Antwerp, the Atlantic Transport Co. operating from New York to London; the Leyland Line from New York to Manchester; then the Leyland Line from the South Atlantic and Gulf ports to Europe, and then also, we have the White Star Line, which they sold, and still retain a lien on, and are agents for, and right in that connection, I want to tell you what is in the offing.

I think the chairman of the Shipping Board will agree with me on everything I have said up to this point, but the statement I am about to make he will not. There is one thing that we disagree about, and that is that the Shipping Board has made a trade by which they have sold the United States Lines, or a portion of it, including the Leviathan, and certain ships which were excluded

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from the sale, to the United States Lines (Inc.), which is a new company incorporated under the laws of Nevada. I think it fair to say that it is represented by the members of the Shipping Board that at the time they first entered into these negotiations for that deal, that the International Mercantile Marine was not in the picture, but before the matter was consummated, the International Mercantile Marine interests did enter the picture, and owned 50 per cent of the stock, of the voting stock, in this Nevada corporation. Senator ODDIE. How much of that is British owned?

Mr. DAVIS. Well, Mr. Chairman, I think most of the stock of the company is American owned, but the International Mercantile Marine owns and operates all of these foreign-flag ships, which are under foreign companies-incorporated in foreign countries. The officers and directors are foreigners.

Senator MCKELLAR. They are competing with us.

Mr. DAVIS. And, operating directly in competition with these various ships that are to be operated by this Nevada corporation, and any other American line, because the North Atlantic, of course, is the heaviest traffic in the world.

Now, section 13 of that contract provides in substance-I do not have it before me, but if I do not state it correctly, I will ask the chairman of the Shipping Board to correct me-it provides that the Shipping Board will not sell any passenger and cargo vessels to any other company operating between New York and the United Kingdom, or Ireland, France, or Germany, and that it will not charter any such vessels for less than current charter rates to any such company.

Now, what is the effect of that? That means that this Nevada corporation, so far as help from the Shipping Board is concerned, ties up and virtually prevents any other American company from entering into that tremendous North Atlantic trade; and the ships of this Nevada corporation, and those that they propose to build can not possibly carry over 10 or 15 per cent of the traffic in those trades.

Now, this contract not only prevents the Shipping Board from aiding other American companies to get into that trade and, remember this, that the theory of the merchant marine act of 1920, reiterated in 1928, is that we shall strive for an American merchant marine capable of carrying the major portion of our foreign

commerce.

Now, it not only protects this company and its foreign subsidiaries from such a competition, but it also protects the Cunard Line and the French Line, and other foreign lines from competition against new or other American lines which might want to go in there with the assistance of the Shipping Board.

This new Nevada corporation, if that contract goes through, of course, is going to want a large mail contract. Now, the question is this, too. We are deferring the construction of building projects throughout this country, which have been authorized by Congress and which have been allocated by the Treasury and the Post Office Departments, until conditions improve, because we think it is best to defer those matters because of the condition of the Treasury.

There is no need for any ships for the next year or two. There are thousands of ships laid up, because of lack of cargo and passen