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plants tends to pass from their proper owners and operators to the labor unions. If this change takes place, it will be basic, and will mean a drastic alteration of the system of free enterprise. The danger of the change is imminent and the intent to force the change has been announced

by Mr. Lewis. I have not taken up any of your time discussing whether supervisory help wants to join the union or not. In my State I know the answer already, but unfortunately, under present conditions, the man himself doesn't have anything to say about it. In the coal mines and other closed-shop industries, unless this bill is passed, he will either join the union or else he will have to leave the company.

May I call your attention to what will happen to production if many such supervisory employees decide they would rather leave the company than join the union. It has happened that way in the past. If it happens now, production is going to be seriously crippled while experienced, competent supervisory personnel seeks jobs in open-shop plants. And the country will be the loser.

In view of these and many other objections known to all of you I respectfully urge you to give this bill your full support and approval to the end that we may be spared the confusion and disorder and disrupted production which will come from a widespread attempt to unionize the hitherto exempt supervisory personnel.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wright, we are very glad to have your statement, and Mr. Sparkman, one of the members of our committee from your State who is always looking after his constituent's interests, requested that you be given an opportunity to be heard this morning because of some engagement you have.

Mr. WRIGHT. That is correct, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. With that idea in mind I hope the committee members will be just as generous toward you as they can with regard to further questioning.

In the coal industry in Alabama, do the contracts as they were drawn for the past 2 years of the United Mine Workers contain a clause which prohibit the organization of supervisory personnel ?

Mr. WRIGHT, That is correct, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And it is your judgment in view of the recent decision of the National Labor Relations Board if this committee and the Congress does not do something about the situation in the way of the enactment of legislation that would make it definite and certain what the congressional intent was, that we will have chaos and difficulties in industries which will be widespread throughout the country?

Mr. WRIGHT. You will have chaos in management, Mr. Chairman, but I would not go so far as to say of my personal knowledge that you will have chaotic conditions in industry, but you will have confusion and unrest in management which I think will adversely affect production.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Sparkman, do you have any questions?
Mr. SPARKMAN. I do not care to ask any questions.
The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions?
Thank you very much.
Mr. WRIGHT. Thank you Mr. Chairman.


COPPER & BRASS CO., ROME, N. Y. The CHAIRMAN. We will now hear from Dr. J. E. Walters, the vice president of the Revere Copper & Brass Co. Come around, Dr. Walters, and tell us what you think about this legislation.

Dr. WALTERS. My name is J. E. Walters, vice president in charge of personnel

and labor relations of the Revere Copper & Brass Co. As a matter of introduction I have here telegrams from other copper and brass companies in the copper and brass products industry

The CHAIRMAN. You can read the telegrams if you wish. Dr. WALTERS. The telegrams are from Claude S. Judd, president of the American Brass Co.; Rodney Chase, of the Chase Brass & Copper Co.; Allen C. Curtiss, director of employee relations, Scoville Manufacturing Co.; Otto Klopsch, of the Wolverine Tube Co., in Detroit; and R. J. Wagner, of C. G. Hussey & Co., of Pittsburgh. (The telegrams are as follows) :

NEW YORK, N. Y., March 31, 1943. Dr. J. E. WALTERS,

Wardman Park Hotel: We have received no intimation from any members of our foremanship staff that the current agitation for unionization originates with them. It arises from influences outside company personnel who are aiming at complete domination of management functions in furtherance of socialized industry in thiscountry, as well as a further source of dues collection. The argument that foremen have no bargaining power at present simply because they are not members of a union is entirely fallacious for their importance to the proper functioning of the enterprise insures each of them a reasonable hearing from the high officials of the company on any question of individual welfare. They form a vitally necessary part of business management and should be treated as such.

CLARK S. JUDD, President.

WATERBURY, Conn., March 31, 1943. J. E. WALTERS,

Wardman Park Hotel, Washinton, D. C.: In regard to proposed bill 2239-and the restrictions on supervisory employees being members of a union, we believe first that there should be a very careful definition of supervisory employees to prevent possible future disagreements. Further, we believe that any supervisory employees who represent management and to whom management delegates part of its authority and who represent management in the eyes of the law and in labor relations are not proper members of any organization whose members owe allegiance to or are in any way tied to unions representing employees under them.


WATERBURY, CONN., March 31, 1943. Dr. J. E. WALTERS,

Care of Wardman Park Hotel: Foremen and assistant foremen are an integral part of management. It is highly important that they be recognized as such by law. An intolerable condition would exist if foremen and assistant foremen as management's representatives sat with both management and labor in collective bargaining. Management must have undivided loyalty from every level of its representatives.

Director of Employee Relations,

Scoville Manufacturing Co.

NEW YORK, N. Y., March 31, 1943. Mr. J. E. WALTERS,

Wardman Park Hotel, Washington, D. C.: Re foremen's union we are unalterably opposed because of conflicting interests resulting. Furthermore, what is the definition of a foreman? Does this include chief executives of the company? Would management make percent group leaders foremen and the balance of supervisors executives? We believe only chaos would result if law is not passed to prevent unionism of managements representatives.



Wardman Park Hotel: Telephoned hotel earlier, but you had gone. Invitation to foremen to organize now would distract them from increased production just when needed most. Even long-established employee unions lost production by causing discussion and bickering among employees surreptitiously while at work regarding merits of initiation and dues amounts, election of officers and stewards, current policies of local outcome of grievances, et cetera. This condition would be more serious among supervisors, cause great production loss. Wagner Act should prohibit organization of those in wage-hour definition of supervisory employee those doing 20 percent of work they supervise.


C. G. HUSSEY AND CO. Dr. WALTERS. These telegrams give their personal viewpoint which I might summarize by saying they are in favor of the passage of this bill.

The Revere Copper & Brass Co. is a company of about 12,000 employees and about 100 percent on war work, making copper and brass products. We make about 50,000,000 pounds of copper and brass every month, which if it is put into cartridges of .30 caliber and .105 caliber, we would make enough ammunition to kill everyone in the Axis army every month, if every bullet hits its mark. That, we believe, is some contribution to the war effort. I will say that some of the other companies' telegrams we have put in there are doing the same thing. We feel that ammunition is a very decided factor in the winning of this war.

Mr. PHILBIN. May we have the location of this man's factory?
The CHAIRMAN. It is at Rome, N. Y.
Mr. ANDREWS. May I ask a question?
Does this company have a plant in Massachusetts?

Dr. WALTERS. In New Bedford, Mass., that is one of our plants. We have plants in Chicago. We have an American Federation of Labor union. The plant in Detroit has a C. I. O. Union, U. A. W. We have two plants in Rome. It has an independent union affiliated with the C. U. A. which is a Federated Union of America.

We have one plant in Baltimore connected with the Interstate Copper and Brass Union.

The New Bedford plant has no union at all.

Mr. ANDREWS. Was this the original company that was started by Paul Revere

Dr. WALTERS. It was started by Paul Revere in 1801. We have a past history of some 142 years.

We also have Local No. 10 of the Interstate Copper and Brass Workers Union, which is made up of subforemen whom we call group leaders and section operators. We have a contract here with the

group leaders and section operators which I would like to submit as a matter of record.

The agreement is as follows:


AND LOCAL No. 10, INTERSTATE COPPER AND BRASS WORKERS UNION This agreement, made this 22d day of March 1943, by and between the Rome Division of Revere Copper & Brass, Inc., hereinafter designated as the "Division," and Local No. 10, Interstate Copper and Brass Workers Union, hereinafter designated as the “Union,” acting as representative for and on behalf of the group leaders and section operators of the Division, witnesseth:

The term "group leaders” and “section operators,” whenever used herein, shall include certain foremen and assistant foremen agreed upon by the Union and the Division as being members of the Union at the time the Division agreed to recognize the Union, and whose names and positions are set forth in schedule A, attached hereto.

Whereas the Union has been recognized by the Division as the exclusive bargaining representative for the group leaders and section operators, as defined herein, employed by said Division, and

Whereas it is the intention of the Division and of the Union to conclude an agreement whereby the mutual interests of group leaders, section operators, and employer will be promoted, peaceful adjustments and settlement of all grievances guaranteed, disputes and differences which may arise between group leaders and section operators and the Division adjusted, wage scales and working rules and conditions of employment established, to prevail between the parties for the duration of this agreement; and

Whereas it is agreed to be to the mutual advantage of both the Division and the Union to encourage continuous service in the Division; and

Whereas it is agreed that both the Division and the group leaders and section operators should cooperate fully, individually and collectively, toward the achievement of this purpose;

Now, therefore it is understood and agreed between the parties hereto as follows:

ARTICLE I. RECOGNITION The Division hereby recognizes the Union as the exclusive representative for group leaders and section operators employed by the Division for the purpose of collective bargaining with respect to wages, hours of employment, and other conditions of employment.

Any employee who, on company time or company property, barasses the union or makes antiunion statements or otherwise attempts to destroy the harmonious and cooperative relationship between the company and the union established by this contract, shall be subject to the grievance procedure and if found guilty, disciplined or discharged.

ARTICLE II. GENERAL PROVISIONS 1. The Division recognizes and will not interfere with the right of its group leaders and section operators to become members of the Union.

2. There shall be no discrimination, interference, restraint, or coercion by the Division or any of its agents against any members because of membership in the Union.

3. The Union agrees not to intimidate or coerce group leaders or section operators into its membership and also not to solicit membershin, collect dues, or engage in Union activities on Division time other than collective bargaining activities covered by this agreement.

4. For the purpose of giving notice to its members of its meetings and making announcements to its members, the Union shall have the right to make reasonable tise of the regular bulletin boards of the Division, provided that all such notices shall be submitted to the Personnel Department for approval and posting, and provided further that such notices and announcements shall be restricted to

(a) Notices of meetings of the Union.
(b) Notices of its elections.
(c) Notices of appointments to office and the results of its elections; and
(d) Notices of its social, educational, or recreational affairs.

ARTICLE III. SECURITY OF EMPLOYMENT (1) The direction of the working force including the right to hire, suspend, promote, demote, transfer, discharge, or relieve group leaders and section operators from duty because of lack of work or for other legitimate reasons is vested exclusively with the management of the Division, provided that claims of discriminatory promotion and of wrongful or unjust discipline or discharge shall be subject to the grievance procedure herein provided.

In the event that the available work in any department is so low in volume as not to give full-time employment to the group leaders and section operators as such, in such department, and provided conditions do not indiciate a reasonably early return to normal business, the group leader or section operator shall be returned to production work as far as his ability to do the work will permit, and to the extent of the Division's ability to do so, as judged by the Management. This shall not be interpreted to require the Division to retain the services of any group leader or section operator whose ability, skill, efficiency, knowledge of the available job, or training is unsatisfactory for the job involved. Whenever differences arise betweon the Division and the Union over the interpretation of this paragraph, the same shall be treated as a grievance in accordance with the procedure herein provided.

Any discharged group leader or section operator shall have the right of appeal to the personnel manager to review his case, provided such claim is in writing and presented within two (2) working days after such discharge. If a satisfactory agreement is not reached, he shall have the right to have case reviewed by the Personnel Manager and the executive board of the Union, after which the same procedure may be followed as in the case of any other grievance. In the event it shall be determined that the group leader or section operator was discharged unjustly, the Division agrees to return the group leader or section operator to his work and pay him wages he would have received had he not been discharged, less any amounts he may have earned elsewhere. The superintendent of the department will immediately notify the president of the union, in writing, when a group leader or section operator is discharged or laid off.


(1) The agreement between the parties hereto relative to wages and rates of pay shall be set forth in a separate supplemental agreement signed by the parties hereto.

(2) A group leader or section operator, transferred temporarily to a higher rated job, shall receive the higher rate of pay. If transferred to a lower rated job temporarily, he shall retain his higher rate of nay. If he is transferred permanently, he shall receive the rate of the job to which he is transferred.


Vacations with pay will be granted to group leaders and section operators in 1943.

All group leaders and section operators of Revere Copper & Brass, Inc., who have been on the pay roll for 6 accumulated months and who have worked for the company more than 800 hours between Saturday, April 25, 1942, and Sunday, April 25, 1943, will be entitled to a vacation with pay in 1943 at their average hourly earnings for 4 weeks period prior to April 25, 1943.

The vacation pay is subject to the regular weekly deduction for employees' social-security tax.

The vacation pay will be included in the regular pay envelope immediately preceding the vacation period.

In determining the number of hours of vacation pay that each group leader and section operator shall receive, the following procedure will be used:

A total of 1,600 hours of work between April 25, 1942, and April 25, 1943, will be considered a full year's employment, and will entitle one who has worked that many hours or more, to 40 hours of vacation pay. Group leaders and section operators who have worked less than 1,600 hours, but more than 800 hours, in the period between April 25, 1942, and April 25, 1943, shall receive the same proportion of 40 hours of vacation pay as is the proportion of the total

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