General SUTTON. There is no new money for the Army Reserve in this program.

Senator SALTONSTALL. No new money, but if we appropriate what the House has appropriated, $10 million, you are satisfied.

Senator THURMOND. Mr. Chairman, could I ask this question? Senator STENNIS. Yes, Senator; I am compelled to go, gentlemen. If it is agreeable with the subcommittee, we will reconvene at 2:15 on the assumption that you finish here with these gentlemen and we will start at 2:15 with the Navy.

If you will excuse me now you may continue until you are finished. Thank you very much. Senator Proxmire, I will ask you to preside.

ADEQUACY OF NATIONAL GUARD BUDGET REQUEST

Senator THURMOND. I just want to ask you, General Wilson, are there included in the proposed appropriation sufficient funds to provide the necessary National Guard armories that you feel that you need for the next year?

General WILSON. Senator, the program of the $9.2 million authorization and the $10 million that was approved in the appropriation bill by the House was the 1966 program that has been approved by us and we expected to come into before the merger program was discussed. Senator THURMOND. You would get what you normally would have gotten if no merger had taken place?

General WILSON. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. You are satisfied with it?
General WILSON. Yes, sir.

ARMY RESERVE DILEMMA

Senator THURMOND. General Sutton, what is your situation on that? General SUTTON. My situation, sir, is that I have a carryover into 1966 since the 1965 program was not executed, of $10.4 million. There is no request or authorization for any new money for 1966 the way the program stands now.

Senator THURMOND. So, if the merger does not take place you are prepared to proceed.

POSSIBLE CONTINUANCE OF 1965 PROGRAM

General SUTTON. I am prepared to proceed with the 1965 program; yes, sir. There are now no funds for 1966.

Senator THURMOND. In your judgment is that sufficient for your purposes for the next year?

General SUTTON. I am not prepared to make any request, Senator Thurmond. I can say that if we had new money for 1966, barring any unforeseen delays or obstacles, we would use it in accordance with our previously proposed fiscal year 1966 program. This list that we have here that we could execute would call for $7.8 million new money for fiscal year 1966.

Senator THURMOND. Would you repeat your last sentence?

General SUTTON. I say in accordance with our program we would need $7.8 million new money if we had an appropriation for 1966 and would need authorization for $8.6 million. We have none now the way the program stands.

49-369-65-59

Senator THURMOND. Have you been instructed by the Defense Department not to include any funds for that purpose?

General SUTTON. No, sir, I have not had any instructions. The proposed merger budget precluded any request for additional funds, and proposed to transfer our carryover funds to the Guard construction budget.

Senator THURMOND. The budget has not included it, is that right? General SUTTON. That is right.

Senator THURMOND. General Wright, do you have any comments on the questions I have just propounded to these two gentlemen?

REALINEMENT DISAPPROVAL; POSSIBLE REQUIREMENT FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS

General WRIGHT. Nothing other than to say that the overall Department of Defense program envisions the realinement sir, so that we propose to put all of the money into the military construction for the Army National Guard, both what had formerly been for the Reserve and Guard. If the merger were disapproved, depending on the language of the instrument by which it is disapproved, we would probably need additional money for a fiscal year 1966 program for the U.S. Army Reserve.

Senator THURMOND. In the amount just mentioned?

General WRIGHT. That is why I said it depended on the language of the instrument. There have been several possible restructurings posited. One at 700,000 strength, others at 650,000, 600,000, and one at 550,000. So the amount of money we ask for new construction in the fiscal year 1966 depends on the strength.

PROPOSED REALINEMENT STRENGTH

Senator THURMOND. I had to go to the White House this morning and we just got back a little while ago. I shall read the full statements of all of you. I just wanted to ask you this: Under the amount that was included in the budget, what is the number of personnel provided for the National Guard and the Reserve?

General WRIGHT. A 575,000 yearend strength for fiscal year 1966 for the Army National Guard.

Senator THURMOND. How much is that?

General WRIGHT. 575,000 for the Army National Guard; all the units are in the Guard. That is the total strength of the units in the Reserve components.

Senator THURMOND. I can't hear you. I think that is the total strength

General WRIGHT. 575,000 is the total fiscal year 1966 yearend strength of the units in the Reserve components.

Senator THURMOND. In other words, the way its stands now the Guard and the Reserves will be retained at about the same strengths as heretofore if there is no merger to take place?

General WRIGHT. The Guard will be much larger than it has been before, sir. All the units as you know under the proposed merger will be in the Guard.

1966 STRENGTHS UNDER OLD PROGRAMS

Senator THURMOND. I mean if there is no merger?

General WRIGHT. They would go ahead at their current strength if

there is no merger.

Senator THURMOND. And that strength?

General WRIGHT. Presently 640,000.

Senator THURMOND. That is the Guard?

General WRIGHT. The Guard and the Reserve.

Senator THURMOND. I am speaking about the Guard now. I want to get your strength, the money that the budget has included here for next year for the Guard, considering there is no merger.

HOUSE ACTION

General WILSON. Considering no merger, or to the present one being considered by the Senate, we don't know what the Senate is going to do. The House came up with an appropriation bill which divided the appropriation back like they are in fiscal year 1965 before the discussion of merger and the Army National Guard and Army Reserve. They end up with funds for 380,000 in the Army National Guard and 270,000 in the Army Reserve.

Senator THURMOND. How does that compare with last year, your 380,000 figure?

General WILSON. The 380,000-you mean actually on board? Our strength was programed for 400,000 yearend strength, The budget for last year was written in at the appropriation for a 400,000 program. Senator THURMOND. Last year it was 400,000 for the Guard? General WILSON. 300,000 for the Reserve.

1966 REALINEMENT PROGRAM

Senator THURMOND. What is it this year?

General WILSON. The language in the President's budget shows that the Guard will end the year strength at 575,000 and none in the Reserve at the end of the year, in units.

That is the President's budget that is under consideration.

1966 STRENGTH RECOMMENDATIONS IN EVENT OF NO MERGER

Senator THURMOND. If the Congress does not take any action on the merger, then what is your feeling about it?

General WILSON. Sir, I think it would be up to the Congress to decide which it should be, 700,000, 650,000, or 600,000.

Senator THURMOND. What is your feeling that the Guard should be if Congress takes no action on the merger?

General WILSON. Well, sir, the strength that we presently have on board at the present time is 380,000 in the Guard.

Senator THURMOND. In other words, you feel the Guard should be at 400,00 as it did last year if the Congress takes no action to merge the 2?

General WILSON. Well, sir, I think of course I have the feeling that the best program we have is the merged program. If that is precluded

Senator THURMOND. That probably won't go through. If it does not go through, then what is your feeling

1965 STRENGTHS

General WILSON. I would return to the 400.000 and 300,000.
Senator THURMOND. Are you speaking for the Guard, 400,000?
General WILSON. That is right.

Senator THURMOND. What is your feeling about the Reserve if the merger does not go through? Is it your feeling that it should be the same as last year.

General SUTTON. I-my personal feeling is that it should be the same as last year.

Senator THURMOND. General Wright, is that your recommendation? General WRIGHT. I feel the merger should go through first of all. Senator THURMOND. I know. You have been instructed to say that by the Defense Department. If it does not go through what is your feeling that it should be?

General WRIGHT. Whatever the Congress says.

Senator THURMOND. After all you have to abide by that. I am asking for your opinion if it doesn't go through. Last year it was 400,000 and 300,000, 400,000 for the Guard and 300,000 for the Reserve. If the merger does not go through then what is your recommendation?

CURRENT STRENGTHS

General WRIGHT. 640,000, which is the present actual strength. Senator THURMOND. 640,000? Then that would be 60,000 less than it was last year?

General WRIGHT. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Last year it was 400,000 and 300,000, 700,000. General WRIGHT. That is right; those were the authorized strengths. Senator THURMOND. On what basis would you recommend a reduction in view of the world situation as it is today?

General WRIGHT. 640,000 is our current strength. That is what they are recruited to now. I think that is what they can maintain. Senator THURMOND. Provision was made for 700,000?

General WRIGHT. That is right.

Senator THURMOND. You recommend that same strength be maintained if there is no merger?

General WRIGHT. 640,000 is what I would recommend.

Senator THURMOND. Would you recommend reducing 700,000 to 640,000?

General WRIGHT. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Is that correct now?

General WRIGHT. That is correct.

Senator THURMOND. I just wanted to find out. Mr. Chairman, I think that is all I have. Thank you, gentlemen, very much.

RECOMMENDATIONS BASED UPON PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL OPINION

General WRIGHT. I would like to make one statement. Sir, about the remark you made about my saying that I was in favor of the realine

ment of the Reserve components because I have been instructed to do so. I would like to say it is my personal and professional opinion that this merger should take place at a yearend strength of 575,000. I say that not because I have been instructed to do so because I believe in the validity of the merger.

Senator THURMOND. The policy of the Defense Department now is to bring about the merger?

General WRIGHT. That is right.

Senator THURMOND. Naturally, I can understand how some of you back this whether it is your personal feeling for it or not.

Thank you very much.

Senator PROXMIRE. Thank you, gentlemen, very much. Your statements will be printed in the record in full.

(The statement of General Wilson and project listings follow:)

STATEMENT BY MAJ. GEN. WINSTON P. WILSON, CHIEF, NATIONAL GUARD BUREAU

It is a privilege that I again appear before this committee to report on the Army National Guard, military construction program.

The committee is well aware of the proposed merger and realinement of the units of the Army National Guard and the Army Reserve in fiscal year 1966. The realinement involves the transfer of the unit structure of the Army Reserve into the Army National Guard and this program provides for the construction requirements.

In view of the proposed merger, the construction program for fiscal year 1965 was curtailed in December 1964 and only partially accomplished. All prior year construction projects that have been authorized and programed are now held in abeyance pending congressional decision on the merger. These construction projects will be reviewed and reevaluated by the Department of the Army, and projects which are valid under the merger concept will be reinstated as fiscal year 1966 requirements.

Preliminary fiscal year 1965 reports for military construction, Army National Guard, indicate obligations of $2,137,000 and an unobligated balance of $12 million.

The fiscal year 1966 Army National Guard construction budget plan provides $16 million for the construction of armories, non-armory-type facilities, minor construction, and planning. No new obligation authority is being requested in fiscal year 1966. The $16 million budget plan is to be financed by the transfer of unobligated balances from "Military Construction, Army Reserve,” in the amount of $10 million, provided for in the appropriation language change requested in the budget, and to reprogram fiscal year 1965 and prior "Military Construction, Army National Guard" funds in the amount of $6 million. This concludes my statement. I shall be happy to try to answer the questions the committee might ask.

Fiscal year 1965 authorization and appropriation project listing (prior to