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General SHULER. This is a similar one, sir, except that in this case this mission comes from closing out the Brooklyn Army Terminal and moving to Bayonne. This part of the mission is an Army Materiel Command type mission and should go at this location. This, again, is to convert an existing warehouse. Senator STENNIS. What reason did the House give us on that one? General SHULER. Exactly the same reason as for the previous one. Senator STENNIs. What is this Army depot in Pennsylvania? Is it a large one or a minor one? General SHULER. It is a permanent large depot, sir, in the system. It is as big as any of our depots. Senator STENNIS. The next item. General SHULER. We have one more item, sir, to complete. That is tab N. This is the only classified item I have, sir. I have completed the unclassified, if I may check the room. Senator STENNIS. Well, we can pass this over until you have your classified items on the rest of the bill. General SHULER. We don’t have any. (Whereupon, the committee considered classified items.)

JOINT HEARINGS

Senator STENNIs. The next item. Thank you very much, Colonel Evans. General SHULER. Mr. Chairman, this completes the prior authorization and the reclamas, and all of the rest of our program, sir, has been presented quite thoroughly to the joint committee. Senator STENNIs. I want to commend you first for the way you have presented these matters here and had it worked up. Mr. Rexroad was afraid he could not be ready by this morning. General SHULER. We just stayed up one night, sir, that is all. That is all I have, sir. The rest is all in the record in the joint committee. Senator STENNIS. Senator Proxmire, we are glad you are here this morning. This is the Army. They always come first. They are presenting to us now all these reclamas where the House denied. They presented all the items that were authorized last year. Now, in the new items that are authorized, the general just said, “We presented all that and it is in the record from the other hearings.” We have it fixed where the other hearings could be, we have extra copies, and we have extra copies from the Armed Services Committee hearing. I think you are planning, Mr. Rexroad, to put the hearings like today in the back of the book and have it all complete then when we go to the floor. Now if there is any item, Senator, that you are interested in, either now or later, for the Army or any of the others, we certainly will go into it at your suggestion. I mean, we will go into it again and gladly. I want all members of the committee to understand fully the procedure we are following. So if anything comes up, now, Army, Navy, Air Force, Department of Defense, any of the rest of them that you want to hear again, all you have to do is request it; and that applies, of course, to other members of the subcommittee.

You have the same privilege, of course, General Shuler. If the Army gets a little uncertain about some of these items or hears some rumors, if you want to come back you can come back in here. General SHULER. Thank you. Senator STENNIs. As always, you have made a fine presentation this morning. I want to thank you for the committee and for myself. General SHULER. Thank you, sir. Senator STENNIs. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Instead of starting with the Navy, let us take the Navy first thi this afternoon and then take the Army Reserve and the Nationa Guard. We will take the Navy at 2:15.

ARMY RESERVE CoMPONENTs

STATEMENTS OF LT. GEN. W. H. S. WRIGHT, CHIEF, OFFICE OF RESERVE COMPONENTS; MAJ. GEN. W. P. WILSON, CHIEF, NATIONAL GUARD BUREAU; AND MAJ. GEN. W. J. SUTTON, CHIEF, ARMY RESERVE

PREPARED STATEMENT

Senator STENNIS. Gentlemen, we are glad to have you back here on these items. In the appropriation bill. I imagine you have a statement, General; is that right?

General WRIGHT. Yes, sir; I have a short statement.

Senator STENNIS. You can put your statement in, if you will please, and then hit the highlights of it if you don’t mind in your usual fine W8 W.

We will take up the items that you wish to present.

(The prepared statement of General Wright follows:)

MILITARY CONSTRUCTION ARMY RESERVE COMPONENTS

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I welcome the opportunity to appear before this committee, to present the fiscal year 1966 Reserve components construction program.

During the past 14 years significant progress has been made in constructing Reserve component facilities, particularly armories and Reserve centers. At the time of the announcement of the proposed reorganization and merger of the Reserve Force by the Secretary of Defense, on December 12, 1964, there were 4,013 armory-type facilities in use (2,807 ARNG armories; 1,206 USAR centers). Of these, 2,187 (1,631 ARNG ; 556 USAR) have been constructed, or have been converted from other types of facilities, with Federal funds. The other 1,826 are either State constructed, or are licensed or leased, or ortherwise made available, pending construction of permanent facilities. As of June 30, 28 of these armory-type facilities were under construction. These construction projects have been carefully considered in the light of the proposed reorganization. Although our review of State stationing plans is not complete, it now appears that each will result in a facility that will continue to be required, and will be utilized. Accordingly, no construction projects that were underway as of December 12, 1964, have been canceled.

Over the period of the past several years, the tendency of both Reserve components has been to concentrate on building armory-type facilities. Today, with the increased amount of equipment being issued to the Reserve components, and the expanding scope of our training, non-armory-type facilities rapidly are becoming of considerably greater concern to us.

Total known unfulfilled facilities construction requirements for the Army Reserve components prior to the announcement of the proposed reorganization and merger were in the order of magnitude of $603.6 million (“Military construction, Army Reserve,” $358.9; “Military construction, Army National Guard,” $244.7). This figure did not include certain requirements which were in the process of study at that time, such as passive defense measures, training area facilities, and covered storage. We are in the process of developing the construction requirements for the revised force structure that has been proposed. In this connection, it should be noted that at present 31 percent of the U.S. Army Reserve and 36 percent of the Army National Guard units are utilizing inadequate facilities. Concurrent with the announcement of the proposed reorganization of the Army Reserve components, all programed construction not under contract for the Army Reserve (MCAR) and Army National Guard (MCARNG) was suspended. At that time, the fiscal year 1965 “Military construction, Army Reserve” (MCAR) and “Military construction, Army National Guard” (MCARNG) execution programs had not been approved by the Department of Defense. The fiscal year 1965 programs consisted of 51 armory and Reserve center projects totaling $11.517 million, and 23 nonarmory projects totaling $3.418 million. Prior to the announcement of the proposed reorganization, the proposed fiscal year 1966 programs at that time consisted of 16 Reserve center projects totaling $8.6 million (MCAR), and 31 armory and 20 nonarmory projects totaling $9.2 million (MCARNG). The revised fiscal year 1966 budget submission does not contain a request for funds for Reserve component construction. After detailed plans for reorganization of the Reserve forces have been approved, an MCARNG program for fiscal year 1966 will be developed at a $16 million level. We propose that this program be financed by transferring the unobligated balance from the MCAR program to MCARNG and reprograming unobligated MCARNG funds. A tentative project listing for the fiscal year 1966 program cannot be developed until detailed stationing plans, now in process of preparation by the States, and review by the Department of the Army are finally approved. Subsequent to the proposed merger of the Army National Guard and the Army Reserve, it is planned that the ARNG will use existing USAR facilities which were federally funded on a licensed basis. It is not possible at this time to predict accurately how many, or which, particular armories or Reserve centers will become surplus to the requirements of the proposed troop structure. It does not seem likely that many will fall in this category. Those armories that are State OWned and found to be excess will be disposed of by the States according to the present laws and procedures. Army Reserve centers found to be excess will be transferred to GSA for disposition. This concludes my statement, Mr. Chairman, Maj. Gen. W. P. Wilson, Chief, National Guard Bureau, and Maj. Gen. W. J. Sutton, Chief, Army Reserve, are present to discuss their programs with you in more detail, and to answer any questions that you may have. Do you, Mr. Chairman, or any members of your committee, have any questions at this time?

1966 PROGRAM

General WRIGHT. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I welcome the opportunity to appear before this committee to present the fiscal year 1966 Reserve components construction program. During the past 14 years significant progress has been made in constructing Reserve components facilities, particularly armories and Reserve CenterS.

Senator STENNIS. Let us get straight here, General. We have been over this so much since January. You are representing the Army Reserve?

General WRIGHT. Yes, sir.

PROPOSED REALINEMENT OF ARMY RESERVE COMPONENTS

TRANSFER OF RESERVE UNOBLIGATED FUNDS TO NATIONAL GUARD

Senator STENNIs. Now we have in the bill here in the Budget Bureau a request for military construction and there has never been anything done about this—and you were going to have transferred over what was left in the National Guard. Now those funds were to be transferred over to the National Guard for construction. General WRIGHT. Yes, sir. We hope to finance a program by transferring unobligated funds from the Army Reserve over to the National Guard to the extent of $10 million. Senator STENNIs. So you don’t have any Reserve units here now that you are testifying in favor of as such? General WRIGHT. That is right. We have a single construction appropriation in the National Guard and are anticipating the approval of the realinement of the Reserve components. Senator STENNIs. As I say, here we are just a few days away now from the markup of the big bill and this one, too. There really has been nothing done respectively at least on the emergency appropriation of realinement. Has the House committee reported anything following Mr. Hébert's hearings? General WRIGHT. No, sir; they have not. Senator SALTONSTALL. Will the chairman yield?

ABSENCE OF ALTERNATIVE PROGRAM

Senator STENNIs. Yes. I am trying to get this in issue. If we get in this issue we can talk about it.

You have no proposal based on no realinement this year?

General WRIGHT. I have no alternative proposal, sir, because the Department of the Army program is based on the realinement.

Senator STENNIS. I know; they have not authorized you to speak in the alternative here.

General WRIGHT. No, sir; they have not.

REVISED PRESENTATION ON OLD BASIs SUGGESTED

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, General Wright, it seems to me as one member of this committee who follows along with Senator Stennis on all of this business we have no alternative in this hearing except to appropriate on the old basis. Your statement on the reorganization is not helpful to us. What I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, is that General Wright, at our request, revamp his statement on the National Guard and the Reserves.

Otherwise I don’t see that you will give us any opportunity to work out your revamps or reclamas. If you cannot do it now, perhaps you could do it very soon, because I hope the chairman will conclude hearings on this bill soon.

PRIOR 1966 PROPOSED PROGRAM

General WRIGHT. Prior to the time that the reorganization announcement was made, sir, we had a proposed fiscal year 1966 program which did break down into $8.6 million for the Reserve and $9.2 million for the Guard.

Now if the merger were not to be approved, we could go ahead as in that proposed program, but we would probably need a little bit more money. We have sufficient carryover to finance a part of that proposed program. So, it would not be too difficult.

Senator SALTONSTALL. $8.6 million for the Reserve and $9.2 million for the National Guard; is that right?

General WRIGHT. That is right, yes, sir.

AUTHORIZATION OF PROPOSED

Senator SALTONSTALL. How much of that $17.8 million is authorized? All of it? General WRIGHT. All of it, yes, sir.

UNOBLIGATED FUNDS

Senator SALTONSTALL. What portion of 1965 is unobligated? General WRIGHT. $22.3 million carryover in 1966. Senator SALTONSTALL. $22.3 million? General WRIGHT. Yes, sir. Senator SALTONSTALL. Are those for authorized projects? General WRIGHT. Yes, sir, they are. Senator SALTONSTALL. What you are saying to us is that you have $22.3 million of unobligated money that you want to hold available for projects already authorized and you are asking for $17.8 million of new money for National Guard and Reserve? General WRIGHT. We are not actually asking that... I said that was the proposed program before realinement was ever discussed. Senator SALTONSTALL. How much of the $17.8 million do you need? General WRIGHT. If we were not to realine? Is that your supposition ? We would need it all if we were not to realine. Senator SALTONSTALL. You are asking us for an appropriation of $17.8 million on the old basis, and you expect us to use $22.3 million of unobligated funds for other authorized projects; is that right?

BUDGET REQUEST PREMISED ON REALINEMENT

General WRIGHT. No, sir, I am not asking you for the $17 million. I was simply asking you for the single authority to transfer from the Reserve into the National Guard $10 million. The National Guard already has six. That would be a total of $16 million for the merged, the realinement Reserve components.

Senator STENNIS. Let us get Mr. Rexroad to testify and refresh everyone's recollection as to what the authorization bill did with reference to new authorizations for the Reserves. That will be the starting

oint. p 1966 AUTHORIZATION FOR NATIONAL GUARD ONLY

Mr. REXROAD. For the Army National Guard there was $9.2 million authorized. There was no budget request for that $9.2 million but there was $9.2 million authorized.

Senator STENNIS. What about the Reserve?

General WILSON. Mr. Chairman, maybe I can help. In the conference report on the authorizations for the Department of the Army

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