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Colonel FENLoN. Yes, sir. The number of aircraft we are speaking of here, Senator, are 19 T-33's and 12 T-29's which support the Air Academy program. Senator JACKSON. As you say, all that has been done heretofore. Colonel FENLON. Yes, sir, that is correct. Senator JACKsoN. It will be transferred here under the construction funds that you are requesting. Colonel FENLON. Yes, sir. Senator JACKsoN. Senator Yarborough? Senator YARBOROUGH. Will Peterson Field then accommodate the largest jets? Will your biggest jets be able to land there? How large a plane can you accommodate? 'olonel FENLoN. Sir, I believe that only turbo-prop jets can be accommodated because of the altitude. Senator YARBOROUGH. How long is the runway? Colonel FENLON. I believe it is 8,000 feet, sir. I could check that for more accuracy. Senator YARBOROUGH. That is all at this time, Mr. Chairman. Senator JACKSON. All right. Colonel FENLoN. The next project provides for a 15,640 square-foot aircraft engine inspection and repair shop. The existing facility is inadequate for the present workload, and cannot be expanded to accommodate the workload associated with the additional aircraft being assigned to this base. Again we are speaking here of the T-29's and the T–33's. Senator JACKSON. The next item. Colonel FENLON. The next project provides for 5,475 square feet for a ground powered equipment shop. The present facility is totally inadequate to support the present and assigned mission and will be demolished. The fourth project provides a 200-man airmen dorm. Ent Air Force Base is deficient in airmen quarters, and this project will provide these quarters for lower-grade airmen. Senator JACKSON. What was the name of this field before? Is Peterson Field a new field 2 Colonel FENLoN. Sir, we speak of the Ent-Peterson complex. Ent is in downtown Colorado Springs and is the headquarters location. Peterson is the military municipal field close to Colorado Springs, which supports Ent. Senator CANNON. Mr. Chairman. Senator JACKSON. Senator Cannon. Senator CANNoN. Do you not have some dormitory space there now that was built by a private contractor which you lease? Colonel FENLON. I believe, sir, it is a service contract. I am not certain that it was built for us, but we do have a lease for quarters for airmen because of the deficiency. Senator CANNoN. Is this in oition to the leased space that you now have, or is this going to replace the space that you previously leased? General CURTIN. May I comment, Senator? I find the data here, We do have under lease at a facility known as Academy Manor Dormitory for 484 airmen presently being leased.

Senator CANNoN. Why can you not carry out that same type of program then rather than building or constructing a new dormitory? General CURTIN. Actually here we have a deficiency at this base right now of over 770 airmen, and this leasing is running us something of the order of, I believe it is $50 to $55 a month per man... But the major feature here is to get these young airmen on base. This a problem we are having from management point of view. Senator CANNON. The location of that dormitory that you have under lease is perfectly satisfactory; at least, I was told it was when I visited there last year. I am simply wondering why you cannot enter into that type of an arrangement for new facilities rather than construct new facilities. General CURTIN. We are talking here about the airmen that are actually working and based at Peterson Field as opposed to those that are in town. There are two different housing complexes. We have some 500 people that are already housed at Ent. The balance we want to house out at Peterson Field, those that are working and associated with the activity at Peterson Field. Senator CANNoN. But this dormitory that I am referring to is fairly close to Peterson Field, very near the base, at least it is my recollection that it is very close to the base. General CURTIN. To Peterson Field versus the in-town? Senator CANNON. Yes. General CURTIN. I could not confirm that, sir. Senator JACKSON. Could you get that information? General CURTIN. Yes, I can. Senator JACKSON. And advise the committee. Senator CANNON. Very well. (The information referred to follows:)

The leased facilities are 2.9 miles from Ent and 2.8 miles from Peterson.

Senator JACKSON. All right, if you will continue. Senator ToweR. Mr. Chairman. Senator JACKSON. Senator Tower. Senator ToweR. He mentioned this leasing cost is $55 per airman. In other words, you feel that there would be considerable economy in building our own barracks rather than leasing. $55 per man does seem pretty high. General CURTIN. It is a significant cost each year. It is the only alternative we have. But the major problem that, the local commanders have presented to us is this question of having the younger airmen on the base where they are in the military environment. Of course the leasing cost of $55 is not an insignificant figure either. Senator ToweR. I wonder, Mr. Chairman, if we could not get some information to show us what the cost would be for constructing our own barracks versus leasing barracks space. Senator JACKSON. Could you supply that information? General CURTIN. Yes, sir; we will furnish that for the record. Senator JACKSON. And of course clarify the point raised by Senator Cannon to show whether there may be sufficient means of taking care of the problem there now. If you could get that and supply it at this point in the record. General CURTIN. Yes, sir; I will supply that. (The information referred to follows § The new leasing program costs $49.50 per month effective May 1, 1965, on a space used basis. On the basis of 500-man utilization the cost is approximately $300,000 annually. A new 200-man dormitory costs $400,000 and would permit a 200-man reduction in the usage of the rented facility. The 200-man dormitory would amortize itself in just over 3 years on the basis of reduced rent. Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman. General, are you using this field for a new purpose, and funding it all in 1 year, with more men and more shops, and so forth, to make this field available for this new mission just as soon as possible? General CURTIN. Not entirely, Senator Saltonstall. This new mission of the additional aircraft being stationed at Peterson does make the airman housing situation at Peterson much more acute than it has been in the past, and from a command point of view we would like to get the dormitories built at the base. We have always had a difficult housing situation in Colorado Springs area. Senator JACKsoN. All right, Colonel. Excuse me, Senator Yarborough. Senator YARBOROUGH. How far is it from Ent Air Force Base to Peterson Field in miles? General CURTIN. About 7 or 8 miles. Senator YARBOROUGH. That is all, Mr. Chairman. Senator JAckson. All right, Colonel. Colonel FENLON. The next project provides an 8,400 square-foot airman dining hall to increase the capacity of the present inadequate messing facilities. This is also at Peterson. Senator JAC’soN. All of this is at Peterson. Colonel FEN LON. Yes, sir. The last project provides for a 40-man officers quarters to offset a critical shortage. Senator STENNIs. Gentlemen of the committee, in taking up the line items, each member can ask any questions that he wishes. The chairman will not call on each one, but just raise your hand if you want to ask any questions, and the Chair will recognize you. Of course, there are literally hundreds of items and we cannot go into every one at length. So feel free to ask for recognition to ask questions of the witnesses.


Colonel FENLoN. The next base is Hamilton Air Force Base, Mr. Chairman, located 16 miles north of San Francisco, Calif.

Senator STENNIs. Call your page number. That will help us.

Colonel FENLoN. Page 9, sir. This base supports an Air Defense Command fighter-interceptor mission, a remote combat center, an air division headquarters. a combat support squadron, the western communications region of the Air Force communications service, western air rescue center, an air recovery squadron, and a Reserve troop carrier mission. The total program requested amounts to $1,297,000, and consists of the following projects: The first project provides 8,200 square yards of warmup and holding pad at the north end of runway 12 to allow warmup and checkout of piston-type aircraft without jeopardizing the mission effectiveness of jet aircraft. The existing taxiway is too narrow to permit two aircraft to pass. The next project alters three airman dormitories from open bay barracks to adequate quarters with rooms. Senator STENNIs. Pardon me just a minute. Colonel FENLoN. Yes, sir. Senator STENNIs. Last year you presented the repetitive items as we call them on charts. Would not these dormitories and matters of that H. be repetitive items? Are you going to have a similar presentation? General CURTIN. We normally have had that, Mr. Chairman, for the appropriation hearings. Senator STENNIs. It does not make any difference. This is a joint hearing for authorizations and appropriations. General CURTIN. We can certainly do that. We did not have it worked up for this particular hearing, sir. Senator STENNIs. Will you have it by this afternoon? General CURTIN. We could have it by tomorrow morning, sir. Senator STENNIs. I thought the Air Force was always ready on a notice of a minute or two. Will you do that? I think it is very helpful to us. Senator SALTONSTALL. General, this is your one and only chance. You will not get another crack at it. General CURTIN. We understand. Senator STENNIs. This is a joint hearing. We are not coming back to these items again unless there is some special reasons for a particlar item. General CURTIN. This was not—we did not quite understand it that wg. Mr. Chairman. We can work those up. - enator STENNIs. You were asked to come over on very short notice. | General CURTIN. We can work those repetitive items up. Senator STENNIS. Work those up, and have them ready in the morn

IIl Co. §eneral CURTIN. Yes, sir, we will. Senator STENNIs. You have utilities, and many other items which appear in more than one base. eneral CURTIN. We understand what you want based on the last year's hearings with the Appropriations Committee. Senator STENNIS. I will say to the new members of the committee, this means when they have a series of items, certain things for the hangars, they present all of them together regardless of where they are located, and we can grasp the whole picture of how much they are spending and what the need is. All right, proceed with your dormitory alterations. We usually go along with these alterations. Suppose you skip to your second item, your replacement. Senator CANNON. Mr. Chairman, may I raise a question there? Senator STENNIS. Certainly, Senator. Senator CANNoN. General, you indicate there that the cost of these alterations is going to run $400,000 for a 474-man unit. Now, the cost of your new units is only running for a 200-man unit about $418,000. This seems awfully high. This is half the amount of the cost of a new unit for alterations. General CURTIN. Yes, sir, this is about what it has been running us. What this involves in these old dormitories is putting in interior partitions, reworking the wiring, adding additional and improved fatrine facilities. It has been running us across the country—we have done I think some 30,000 or 35,000 spaces so far—it has been running us about $800 to $1,000 a man. Senator CANNoN. When this is finished, will it have as long a life expectancy per unite and be as good as new ones that you start from scratch and build? General CURTIN. It is hard to answer that categorically. Let me answer it this way. In this particular case this is a permanent building. These were built—I have forgotten exactly when, 1931 or 1932, and they are permanent construction. The answer to this particular question would be yes. Now in some of the cases where we have upgraded the mobilizationtype dormitories, we feel that they will stay in the inventory 10 to 15 years. These are the frame type that we have upgraded. Senator CANNON. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Senator ToweR. Mr. Chairman. Senator STENNIS. Senator Tower. Senator ToweR. Just one question here. In converting these dormitories from the open bay dormitory to the smaller rooms, do you also eliminate these gang heads or latrines, I believe the Air Force people call them, and have more in the way of plumbing facilities? General CURTIN. We will have more in the way of plumbing facilities. We will still have—as you refer to the gang latrines—but they will be smaller gangs, distributed through the facility. The Department of Defense standard requires this. Senator ToweR. Do you think this is a morale factor with the men, the type of dormitory that they have to live in? General §."o. have generally found that our airmen prefer these smaller dormitories; the mobilization dormitories that we have converted seem to appeal to them because of the smaller group that is associated with it, as opposed to the larger more institutional dormitory. Senator ToweR. Thank you. Senator STENNIS. All right, General, let me ask this general question. These replacements and alterations of these dormitories seem to me are a real need that you have. How far does this bill put you along the way? Does this make an appreciable showing in reducing your problem? General CURTIN. It is a significant increment this year, Mr. Chairman, over and above what we have done in the past. We still have—I can get you a precise figure and furnish it for the record, or I can digit out right now, the figure comes to mind, $110 million of additional work of this nature that we should be doing, and will come along in subsequent programs. Senator STENNIs. I have had the impression that the Air Force pushed its housing programs so much more than it did these airmen’s

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