the Record pages are made up and plated in preparation for the printing.

Frequently this involves checking back with Senators, Congressmen, key staff people for clarification of material and the checking of items which may be missing but are essential parts of the message to be printed. It should never be forgotten that no change in manuscript is made by the Government Printing Office personnel without the expressed permission of the Member of Congress involved.

POSTAL EFFICIENCY

Postal efficiency is lost. As a climax to the operation which has been universally recognized as most efficient and specifically tailored to the services of Members of Congress, the daily Congressional Record comes off the presses and is placed in Post Office pouches, already tagged. These go down a chute to a conveyor belt in the subbasement of the Government Printing Office, which takes them underground directly to the city post office, which is across the street from the Government Printing Office.

From there they receive the quickest dispatch to the adjoining Union Station for distribution to the cities and constituencies of the Senators and Members of Congress. The Public Printer himself admits that this service cannot be duplicated in any relocation of the Printing Office.

PRINTING INDUSTRY AID IN PRESENT PLANT EFFICIENCY

Gentlemen, in the 13 years while I was Public Printer constant steps were taken to improve the efficiency of the current plant. This was done with the cooperation of printing engineers from all over the country who responded to my invitation to give of their time and technical know-how. These key printing experts came from some of the largest printing establishments of the country. What they recommended was weighed carefully and then included in our plans for new buildings adjacent to the present location and renovation of old buildings. I am sure that the same kind of industry cooperation can be made available at this moment in response to an official request for a thorough study of the present methods within the Government Printing Office.

After the building program was completed and certain streamlining of systems within, printers and other knowledgeable people from the States and from foreign nations came to examine what had been done and uniformly expressed admiration at the efficiency of what they saw. Frequently they adopted many of our ideas for use in their own plants, both here and abroad, involving new construction or future expansion of their present plants.

UTILIZATION OF COMMERCIAL PRINTING PLANTS

Private industry is ready, willing, and able. To me it is vital that the available plant capacity of commercial printing establishments in the States and communities be used to the fullest extent in printing the needs of our Government. For example, during World War II a volume of $250 million of printing was produced by the commercial private printing plants of the Nation with a response that many felt was impossible before I ordered the action in this regard. I am sure

that today the commercial printing industry has both the capacity and the potential to respond to the needs of the Public Printer, and he will get the same effective and cooperative response that I did.

AVAILABILITY OF ADJACENT SPACE FOR PLANT EXPANSION

Beside the points already made, it is my considered judgment, gentlemen, that adjacent to the present central location of the Government Printing Office is the space that can be utilized in any essential expansion program for warehousing, printing, or any other function essential to the continued efficient operation of the Government Printing Office.

Gentlemen, within recent days I've thought frequently that the reverse of the current request of the Public Printer would make more sense. In other words, if at this moment the central Government facility established to meet the printing of the Congress were located at a spot more distant from the Capitol, then appropriate and potent reasons could be presented to locate its plant close to the Halls of Congress. Happily, this unquestionable advantage now exists at the present location. To abandon completely the Government Printing Office that is now located so ideally is to throw away a prime benefit that can never be brought back.

DISAPPROVAL OF REQUEST RECOMMENDED

Therefore, I strongly recommend that the request of the Public Printer be disapproved and that all necessary steps be taken to apply the newest advances of technology to the systems within the present Government Printing Office.

Senator MONRONEY. Thank you very much, Mr. Giegengack, for your statement.

Do you have any questions, Senator Proxmire?

TENURE OF WITNESS AS PUBLIC PRINTER

Senator PROXMIRE. I would like to ask Mr. Giegengack: How long were you Public Printer? How long were you associated with the Government Printing Office?

Mr. GIEGENGACK. From July 2, 1934, to March 15, 1948. It was 14 years.

Senator PROXMIRE. You have continued your association with the graphic arts industry since that time?

Mr. GIEGENGACK. Yes, sir.

IN-LINE PLANT VIS-A-VIS MULTISTORY PLANT

Senator PROXMIRE. As a man who has had rare experience, it would be helpful if you could tell the committee what seems to be the crucial issue to many witnesses, the Government witnesses who have appeared before. How much of a handicap in terms of efficiency is it to operate in a multistory building, in your judgment, given the kinds of jobs that the Government Printing Office has to do?

IMPROVEMENT OF PRESENT PLANT

Mr. GIEGENGACK. I think arrangements could be made in the present setup, plus additional space that is available in that area. The ground

is vacant now, because it is a relocation job. With this warehouse that I built, you want loads of paper right under cover. I think they can unload 12 carloads at a time. The plant is laid out that way. Then there are automatic elevators from that floor that takes the paper downstairs. Now the contention right now of the present Public Printer is that that paper has to go down another elevator and comes under the street, and brings it into the main building. Senator MONRONEY. How long is that tunnel?

RELOCATION OF SUPERINTENDENT OF DOCUMENTS

Mr. GIEGENGACK. It is just under the street. Then it could be redistributed in the other places. In my own opinion, you have a lot of space taken up by the Superintendent of Documents now, an immense amount of space. That is the book sales department. That could be located anywhere in the city, and it would relieve a lot of space for storage. Then I think that you had an approriation some time back for an adjoining piece of property in back of the newest building there, and I think that has been rescinded. However, a good-sized building adjoining that could be erected and rearranged, in my opinion. I think the thing that is in everybody's mind down there is that with the new event of offset presses which eat up an awful lot of paper, which means that they have to have a lot more paper, a medium-sized warehouse adjoining the present warehouse could be erected, where the paper could be received and you could put all of your offset presses in there, and you could print there, and you could ship out of the same building without any handling. That would relieve that tremendously.

Then I think with the Superintendent of Documents moving into a location that would be central to the city because it is a bookstore and people go there to get books, and most of their business is by mail order, that would release a lot of space.

DISADVANTAGES OF IN-LINE PLANT

In my experience, I have seen one large plant in Chicago that was on one level and it ran so far away that they had to get a locomotive and cars on it to take the people from one end of the building to the other, just as I said to some of the boys down there, and they said,

We won't have to worry about elevators,

and I said,

No, but your office will be on the second floor, and the boys' room would be under it, and you would have the proofroom and the bindery, and the cutting room and the delivery, would be two blocks away.

I said would it be easier to take the elevator up one or two floors or walk two blocks down? He said he didn't think of that.

NEW PLANT COST BURDEN

That is my opinion, of course. It is ideal if you can have this other thing, but it is an awful lot of money to put into it, when through small alterations and a nominal fee, I am sure, and I know that the industry would be very happy to give time and I have given my time on this now, for no other purpose than to help the industry and the Government. They are very close to me.

GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE PRINTING PLANTS COMPARED

Senator PROXMIRE. I know you have another engagement, and we have other witnesses, but as I understand it, you are the only witness that we will have who has had experience in both the Government field for many years, and also in the private field. Could you give us any guidelines so that we could appraise the differences between the private industry and the Government operation, because the Public Printer when he was here, Mr. Harrison, gave us the impression that the differences are so great that there is not really fair comparison. Where you compare the cost of a commercial building, private building, with the cost of a Government building, there are some sharp differences. Could you give us a little guidance on this?

Mr. GIEGENGACK. Is it true that the cost of a Government building, and the upkeep, you mean?

Senator PROXMIRE. The fact that the Government has to do many things that the private industry might not do, for instance the point was made that the paper inventory has to be a great deal larger for the Government than it would have to be for a comparable private operation. The Government has to produce more promptly. You have made some differences in your presentation. I am wondering if you would compare the building.

GOVERNMENT AND INDUSTRY PARTNERSHIP

Mr. GIEGENGACK. That is true in some things. However, they all can be corrected. During the war I organized the printing industry into a partnership with the Government, and I had 2,500 contracts with printing plants, and Senator Hayden knows this, throughout the the United States, and we stored paper everywhere in those big cities where we used the plants. We had them all operating. We had very good service, and in fact Senator Hayden recommended me for a Certificate of Merit from the President because of the operation we had.

Senator HAYDEN. I can certify, as chairman of the Joint Committee on Printing, that I was closely associated with Mr. Giegengack during the war, and he did a magnificent job in obtaining the assistance of the private industry in doing an enormous amount of necessary printing.

PRINTING OF RATIONING COUPONS

Mr. GIEGENGACK. And schedules, too, were pretty well met, met as well as we meet them ourselves. Now let us take one program I can bring to mind, a big program, the rationing. People thought that the Bureau of Engraving did all of the stamps. We bought them commercially, and they were all printed commercially, and all distributed directly from these plants. We had special paper prepared for it, through chemistry and our own men and outsiders helped us and the papermills helped us to get it.

PRINTING OF AGRICULTURE YEARBOOK

There are many, many books now, and there was one book that I had then in mind, the Agriculture Yearbook, which was a very big

book, and you gentlemen are familiar with that. With the war rush, I couldn't get it in anywhere, because we had too many other things to win the war. So everybody said it was in a hurry. Well, the commercial plants couldn't deliver it because they had other business, too. So then Congress, I went before the committee, and they gave me a little additional time, at which I placed the order, and I had a fairly good price on it, what we expected it to be. So there isn't too much difference in printing in the Government and printing there. I had my own printing plant in New York.

EXCESSIVE CONSTRUCTION ESTIMATE

Senator PROXMIRE. Let me zero in on the specific angle that I was concerned about. You have proposed that there be more contracting out, but my thrust was a little different. This is supposed to cost in the neighborhood of $50 million for the building. The printing industry has indicated they think this is excessive and maybe it ought to be about half that, or maybe even less. I am wondering if this is in your judgment, your very helpful professional judgment, having had experience in both, you think that this is a fair criticism, that $50 million does seem to be too much and it ought to be a great deal less than that?

Mr. GIEGENGACK. But look at the land they are taking.

Senator PROXMIRE. As I understand, I have been reading the House hearings there, and the $52 million didn't include the cost of the site. Mr. GIEGENGACK. That is because the Government owns it. That was because they expected to get it from the Army.

Senator PROXMIRE. My question is whether $50 million to produce $130 million worth of printing that they have

Mr. GIEGENGACK. Something like that.

Senator PROXMIRE. Whether this would seem to you to be an excessive amount.

Mr. GIEGENGACK. I think it is out of line.
Senator PROXMIRE. Thank you.

INDUSTRY PRINTING PLANT OCCUPANCY CHARGE

Senator MONRONEY. What is the normal occupancy cost charged in printing for your plant location, unequipped?

Mr. GIEGENGACK. Well, they don't have any special factors there. Senator MONRONEY. Isn't there a percentage to the volume of business that they do, like in most other cost accounting systems?

Mr. GIEGENGACK. They include it in the cost, that is the property, and the interest of your mortgage, and fire insurance and that is all figured in.

Senator MONRONEY. It would figure into the occupancy charge and I wondered what the normal rule of thumb is.

Mr. GIEGENGACK. The Government doesn't figure that.

Senator MONRONEY. I was trying to ascertain the normal rule of thumb in the printing industry.

Mr. SOMMER. I think that I will cover that in my testimony.
Senator MONRONEY. That is fine.

VALIDITY OF ASSERTED PROXIMITY REQUIREMENT

You consider the Congress, itself, as the principal user?

Mr. GIEGENGACK. It was the most important, because the Printing