STATEMENT OF DR. DONALD F. KLINE, DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT AND INSTITUTIONAL RESEARCH, IDAHO STATE UNIVERSITY, POCATELLO, IDAHO

Dr. KLINE. I am pleased to appear before this committee and to present a statement which, I hope, will reflect not only my own views but to some extent, at least, the views of a region which is not now heavily engaged in mission research for some of the principal agencies of the Government.

With your permission I am going to abstract from this statement rather liberally and maybe even make categorical statements which I hope will prompt some questions.

Senator HARRIS. All right. Without objection, we will place the entire statement in the record.

Dr. KLINE. Thank you.

Mr. Mansbridge has advised me that the committee has had a chance to see the statement and for that reason I would like to make three points, and then I would like to simply list categorically at least five benefits which I believe could result from regional science and technology centers.

The first point that I would like to make, and I think it is selfevident, is that the regional needs in education and particularly in the field of science and technology are conditioned not only by local but national and world needs. Moreover, we are not sure what the needs of a given region may be, and to this and I think that some mechanism which would provide for regional science and technology centers would help us first of all, define some of these regional needs that could be exploited to the economic benefit of that region.

In my own region we are concerned at this point in time about water resources, about potential uses of wood and forest products, about mineral reserves, about economical methods of recovery, about hydroelectric power, about power produced by nuclear energy, and geothermal heat sources to list only a few. I list these things simply to illustrate that science and technology are a very important factor to economic and regional development. I think the other things that we need to look at carefully when we list the things that are important to us, is to try to find, if we can, what regional resources we may have. The answer to this question is rewarding and frustrating at the same time.

No region is completely devoid of resources, yet at the same time we lack a mechanism for bringing together the private sector, universities, individuals, in order to get at and to solve some of the problems which are currently known in almost all of the regions of the country.

Let me make it abundantly clear that I refer to a regionality rather than to any existing political subdivision that may or may not contain all of the factors necessary for the full development of the potential of the region. To this point I would have to, of course, take issue with the idea of block grants to States. I doubt seriously if our part of the country, in Idaho, Montana, the Dakotas, Nevada, even Wyoming, we may have all of the resources and the technical assistance that we need. One very good illustration of this is the great Snake River Plain that runs across the southern part of Idaho. Actually that problem will find part of its solution in Wyoming, a part of it probably in Idaho, some of it in Washington and Oregon. So, when we talk about regional prob

lems, I want to make it clear that I speak to the point of regionality rather than to existing political subdivisions.

I would like to stress, if I may, the one thing that I think would be important in regional centers, and that is that one of their principal functions should be the identification of technological and scientific problems that are amenable to solution. I think they should also identify problems of the social, economic and even political concerns which, when solved, would contribute to the economic betterment of the citizens of the region and ultimately to the Nation.

Finally, I would like to say that we have heard a good deal of discussion in the last 2 or 3 days about being able to use research and research results and transport them to various parts of the country and to a certain extent this is true. This is particularly true when you talk about basic research.

On the other hand, in our part of the country where the natural resources, really even more than our population, the natural resources of a region, its plant and its animal population, can be studied most efficiently where the interrelationship exists. The relationships cannot be removed to a laboratory in some distant part of the country. By definition you destroy the interrelationship when you separate the population from the environment, and for this reason I think that Idaho, the intermountain area particularly, is a virgin area uniquely amenable to study, and given the resources, we can study some of our problems better than anyone else. I am not completely convinced that we cannot separate some kind of research from the region.

Another one of the points that I would like to make almost parenthetically, and that is to agree most wholeheartedly with Dr. Handler's testimony regarding the development of new universities. We have had some experience and our university, Idaho State University, is a new university. We do not, by and large, face the problem of outliving a faculty that is oriented to a different time. To this point, by taking advantage of the National Reactor Testing Station not too far from us, we can find a blend of the scientists who are now working for the subcontractors at the NRTS, through Idaho Nuclear, through our own capability academically at the university, and through the private sector, to develop what I would conceive to be a new institution; an institution that would be designed largely for graduate study and largely as a laboratory for graduate study. We can take advantage of the talent that we find among the physicists and the engineers, both at the NRTS site and on our own campus.

In my written testimony I have listed only partially some of the kinds of problems which I think a regional science center could develop and exploit. One of the things that is of concern to me, and that is that as a lumber producing State, it is my own personal opinion that we are making a mistake when we produce the lumber, we treat it in various ways, including irradiation, in order to produce something close to the Nova wood product which I am sure you have heard of. This treatment is a plastic impregnation of soft woods to make them very resistant to rot and deterioration. I cannot avoid wondering what would happen to the economic development of our region if instead of transporting the raw lumber, we might find it feasible to develop some manufacturing plants that would turn this raw lumber into more use

ful commodities for sale in a general market, say in the field of furniture.

Finally, Senator, let me say that regional science centers designed to engage in regionally relevant research for the purpose of improving the economic well-being of a region would have three or four specific results as I see it. The first one would be to involve in a very significant way the relatively untapped scientific manpower that is now found in our liberal arts colleges and in our developing State universities.

Secondly, they would provide an incentive for young researchers to remain in the teaching research environment rather than being attracted to industry or to large contract research centers.

Third, I think that such centers would improve the balance between teaching and research and I think we should note that the teaching load in our liberal arts colleges and in our developing State universities are often as far out of balance as research sometimes becomes in the research center-as university research-based institutions. I think that these kinds of things, the regional science center, would enhance the economic well-being of the region, and then finally, to the point which is of interest to this committee, such centers would certainly achieve a broader geographic distribution of research and development funds.

Federally established and supported science centers engaged in regionally relevant research would not only promote the economic interests of the region but in my opinion, would also strengthen the relationships between and among the private sector of our economy, our local, and our State government and institutions of higher learning, As communications between and among these groups improve, it would seem to me, that common problems would be solved and new relationships could emerge. An independent consortia of institutions would begin to develop in the business and industrial communities, and we would begin to solve critical issues. Wasteful duplication would give way to cooperative development and to the economic well-being of the region.

This, Senator, very briefly summarizes the testimony that I have prepared for you. I will be certainly glad to answer whatever questions I can.

Senator HARRIS. Thank you very much, Dr. Kline, for your specific recommendation in regard to regional science centers which is very responsive to the questions that we have asked and that we are interested in learning about.

Tell me, first, what is the development and institutional research, of which you are the director?

Dr. KLINE. Well, Senator, I think that is a manufactured title. The institutional research part of it, of course, is to look at the resources that we have in our institution, at our faculty, at our laboratories, at our assignable space for instruction, looking at our student population, where does it come from, where does it go, what is the nature of that population. The development side of it, I think, is a term that has been manufactured to cover a whole host of things.

One of the things that I am principally responsible for is the management of research grants and contracts that come to Idaho State University. We have been fairly successful since the creation of my

office. It is composed of one individual and one secretary. During the last year we have been able to extend our participation in Federal programs for both research and for teaching from a previous high of some $365,000, this year we will be participating to the extent of about $312 million.

Now, this is not a definition of what the title is, Senator, but it is more of a description of what it is.

Senator HARRIS. Yes. I was wondering if it was separate from the university, but actually it is within the university.

Dr. KLINE. It is a position within the university itself.

Senator HARRIS. I see.

Now, you mentioned that regionality is preferable to existing political subdivisions. Under the Public Works and Economic Development Act of 1965 we have set up regional commissions similar to Appalachia. Do you know whether Idaho is contemplated to be included in one of the regional commissions or is it one now?

Dr. KLINE. I do not know that we are in one now. Whether or not we are contemplated to be in one, again I cannot

Senator HARRIS. I have just been informed that the answer is "No." The regional commissions are a new kind of political subdivision that we have only lately begun to put into effect. It might be helpful to the regional science center concept that you have talked about, and to regional development of science and technology. But Idaho would probably have to do some things on a private basis such as forming consortia with other universities. Have you any such things going on there now?

Dr. KLINE. Well, as you know, Senator, we are part of the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education and this has been most helpful to us. We have been able to pool resources, particularly in the area of medicine and in other places where we want to train people for specific vocations or professions. This, however, does not get at the regional development that we are talking about here. It is nice for us to have an agreement with other States where we can send our potential doctors for training in medicine, but this does not really get at the problem of the economic development of the State. It does not solve, for example, the kinds of problems that are currently going on along the Snake River Plain.

During the last couple of weeks we have been holding hearings out there to determine what should be done with the American Falls Dam. This is one of the oldest dams in the system and it has reached a point apparently where it needs to be replaced. We have had lots of testimony from our people in that part of the country, some of it emotionally based, some of it fairly well based in science and fact.

One of the alternatives which to my knowledge, has not been. considered has been the possible use of the natural aquifers that underlie the whole volcanic area immediately north of the Snake River Plain. One of our young geologists on the campus suggests we can transport water about 8 miles from one of the lakes, dump it back into the underground aquifers and be able to store far more water, far more economically, than we would be able to do it in artificial reservoirs.

Frankly, I think it would mean a tremendous gain to all concerned, the people who hold water rights, the people who are concerned about

paying for rebuilding a dam, if we could take advantage of some of the water that now runs over into other areas, if we could store it in these underground aquifers. It might be a far better and more economical answer than what we are doing now.

We do know that the NRTS site was able to drill wells to a distance of about 400 feet and pull up out of that area all of the real good water that they need. This is the kind of thing that I refer to when I talk about regional science centers.

Idaho State University, the University of Idaho, or both, engaged in cooperative ventures, consortia with other universities, to do various kinds of things. Our sister institution to the north has a very interesting arrangement with the Washington State University. These two institutions are located 9 miles apart, and they share all kinds of facilities, particularly library resources. Again, these do not get at the problem of the economic development of the region.

Senator HARRIS. You have hit on two themes or really one and a variation of it-that we have heard a good deal about, and that is development of science and technology must be tied to the needs and resources of the region. Also, that research in the region on social and economic problems which may have had something to do with its lagging behind the national average of economic growth is essential. I think those are subjects that we will continue to be intensely interested in in this subcommittee.

Do you have anything further you want to say? I think your statement is excellent and I really do not think of many questions to

ask you.

Dr. KLINE. Well, Senator, one of the things I think I might want to stress a little bit, when we talk about the regionality, there are some overlapping areas of interest in regions that are geographically quite apart from each other. As you probably know, southern Idaho has a very rich phosphate deposit. This is also true in Florida. And many of the problems that our phosphate industry faces at the moment are conditioned by and affected by what is happening in the phosphate areas in Florida.

Now, it would seem to me that federally supported, initiated, regional science centers could begin to bring the concerns of two regions together for the mutual solution of common problems. I suspect this is true in forestry. I suspect it is true in hardrock mining. I suspect it is true in many, many areas not the least of which is water resources. And, yet any one State, any one region, it would seem to me that the net worth would be far more effective if we could have the interrelationships that would exist not only in terms of a geographic region but in terms of industry developing in separate regions of the country. And it would seem to me that to consider the possibility of regional science centers as opposed to State development problems is a tremendously important aspect for our thinking as we talk about. the geographic distribution of research and development funds. Senator HARRIS. Very good. Thank you very much, Dr. Kline. (The prepared statement of Dr. Kline follows:)

STATEMENT OF DR. DONALD F. KLINE, DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT AND INSTITUTIONAL RESEARCH, IDAHO STATE UNIVERSITY, POCATELLO, IDAHO

Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I am pleased to appear before you to present a statement which, I hope, will reflect the views of a state, and to some