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Q. For Mr. Powell in New York City. Does that refresh your recollection as to a gathering on behalf of Mr. Powell in the city at that time?

A.. Yes, sir; the Alfred E. Isaacs Club dance. I am not sure that it was for Mr. Powell or not but it is an annual dance that his club gives. He is coleader of the club.

Q. I believe there was also a testimonial for Lillian Upshur. Is that correct?

A. Yes. It is not a testimonial as such. It is just an annual dance they have. I don't recall whether they said testimonial dance for him, or her, or what. I know it was an annual dance they have.

Q. Who is Lillian Upshur? A. Coleader of the assembly district with Mr. Powell. New York City is divided into assembly districts and they have a leader and coleader. Mr. Powell is the leader and she is his coleader. I don't know the new number but prior to the constitutional change it was known as the 12th Assembly District. It has a new number now.

Q: Is Miss Upshur on the Congressman's congressional payroll?

A. I don't think I don't really know. I am not too familiar with the congressional payroll. There is a list of names I don't recognize. .

Q. Does she work in Mr. Powell's congressional office either in New York or Washington?

A.. She doesn't work in Washington. I don't know about New York City.

Q. Do you know whether she might be on the payroll of the Education and Labor Committee?

A. I am almost sure she is not. I am pretty sure she is not on the Education and Labor Committee payroll. I cannot say it with any finality. I would have to see the list.

Q. În connection with that dance or ball on March 25, 1966, did you go up to it?

A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you use an airline credit card to go up to it?

A. I can't remember, sir. I know I drove a couple times at that particular time. I am not sure whether I went on the airline credit card.

Q. Did anyone accompany you?
A. No, sir, I went by myself.

Q. Could you relate to the committee the names of other employees of the Washington office of either the committee or Mr. Powell's congressional office that were in attendance that night in New York City?

A. Let me see. Mr. Derrickson, Mrs. Wright, Miss Himes.
Q. Miss Dorothy Himes?

A. Yes. I am just trying to think. There was a dinner before. I think Miss Lewis.

Q. Miss Cleomine Lewis?

A. Yes, Mr. Odell Clark. There were about eight or nine. I remember definitely being there. Oh, Miss Swann was there. I am not sure whether Mr. Schwartz was there or not. I think so but I can't remember for sure.

Q. Do you know how they transported themselves to the dinner from Washington to New York?

A. No. I know some of them drove. I don't know how they all got there.

Q. Did you use your airline credit card for the purchase of any transportation of these people to that dinner?

A. No, sir.

Q. To your knowledge was there any official business on behalf of the committee in New York City on that date?

A. Not to my knowledge, sir.

Q. You don't know of any official duties that were performed by any of these people who went up to the dinner?

A. No, sir.

Q. I would like to direct a series of questions to you concerning Y. Marjories Flores, who also is known as Mrs. Adam C. Powell. Do you know Mrs. Powell personally?

A. I met her just once back in 1959 when I was editor of the New York Age. That was the only time I physically saw her.

Q. 1959?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you see her?
A. At a dance in New York City with Mr. Powell.

Q. Have you ever seen Mrs. Powell in Washington, D.C., during the last 2 years?

A. No, sir. _ I have talked to her on the phone when she was in Washington, D.C., but I have not seen her physically.

Q. Have you ever seen her in New York City during the last 2 years?
A. No, sir; not personally.
Q. Have you talked to her on the phone up there? .
A. Yes, sir, I have.

Mr. Hays. May I ask a clarifying question? Did I understand you to say you talked to her on the phone when she was in Washington but did not physically see her?


Mr. Hays. And you talked to her on the phone when she was physically in New York?

The WITNESS. Yes, sir. I talked to her on the phone from Washington when she was in New York.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Can you place the dates when she was in Washington first and then New York City to the best of your recollection?

A. The last time I talked to her when she was in Washington was around September, I think.

Q. September of 1966 ?
Ă. This year; yes, sir.
Mr. Hays. Could that have been August?

The WITNESS. Might have been August. I don't know the exact month. It was late summer or early fall.

Mr. Hays. As I recall the press said she was here in August. I can understand you can have some difficulty in sorting out the months. That is when you talked to her?

Mr. Hays. When the press said she was here?
The WITNESS. Yes. She was here 3 or 4 days.

Q. When she was at the Sheraton Park Hotel?
A. Yes.
Q. Did she come to the office at all during that visit?
A. No.
Q. How long was she in New York City, to your knowledge?

A. I don't know. I only talked to her once when she was in New York City. That was about a year ago. All I recall is the conversation in New York City

Q. In connection with her visit to Washington in August or September of 1966, you did not talk to her during those months in New York City, also, did you?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do I understand your testimony that you met her personally only once?

A. Yes.
Q. And that was in
A. Yes.
Q. You are familiar with her voice?
A. Oh, yes. I know her voice.
Q. You know when she is on the other end of the telephone?
A. When I talked to her; yes, sir.

Q. Since December 15, 1966, have you talked to Mrs. Powell by telephone?

A. Yes, sir; a couple times.

Q. Where was she at the time you talked with her and where were you?

A. I was in Washington. I presume she was in Puerto Rico.
Q. Did she call you or did you call her?
A. She called me.

Q. Could you relate to the committee the circumstances and the occasion of her calling you, at least why she told you she called you?

A. Two matters, one concerning her appearance here before the subcommittee. The other was concerning the need to get in touch with Mr. Powell concerning personal matters.

Q. The record shows she received a subpena from the committee on December 15, 1966, to appear before the committee on December 21, 1966. Had she received a subpena at the time she called you?

A. I don't think so. The last time I talked to her was last Wednesday, which was the 21st. She hadn't received a subpena then but she said she was coming.

Q. When was the first time she called you that you can recall?

A. It might have been the 19th or the 16th. I talked to her a couple days before the 21st. I do recall last Wednesday was the last time I talked to her.

Q. You talked to her on the 19th and then the 21st?

A. Either the 16th or 19th and then I talked to her again on the 21st.

Q. About December 16 and again on December 21?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. When she called you on the 16th, which would be the first call, what did she say to you?

A. Well, then she was just concerned about getting in touch with Mr. Powell. That was the call primarily. She wanted to get in touch with him.

Q. Why?
Ă. To discuss some personal matters concerning their relationship.
Q. You don't know where she was calling from?
A. I can only assume it was from Puerto Rico, a long-distance call.
Q. Where did you receive the call?

A. At my home. I received the first one in the office and I received the second one at my home, the 21st call at my home.

Q. The first one you were at the office?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you able to put her in touch with Mr. Powell?

A. No, sir. I told her how to get in touch with him. I said I would drop him a note or send him a cable and tell him to get in touch with her.

Q. At that time she didn't make any reference to having received a subpena on December 15th ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did she make reference to the committee hearings which had been in the newspapers at that time? A. We discussed it at length on the 21st; yes,

Q. Let us relate to the 16th.
A. Yes.
Q. What did she have to say?

A. She said it was difficult for her to get up here because she had to make arrangements for her son and she wasn't able to find somebody to take care of him. It was very difficult for an overnight arrangement. She had somebody during the daytime there, a daytime maid, but she couldn't leave the son with the maid overnight. She was then involved in trying to make arrangements to take care of the son.

Q. So she could come up here?
A. Yes, sir.
Mr. DEVINE. This was on the 16th?
The WITNESS. The previous call I had.
Mr. O'CONNOR. All this testimony relates to the first call, the 16th.
Mr. DEVINE. He wasn't sure when it was.

Mr. Hays. He said either the 16th or 19th. For our purposes that is accurate enough.

Mr. DEVINE. Was your first call with Mrs. Powell prior to your first testimony before this committee?

The WITNESS. You are making it really rough. I can't remember.

Mr. DEVINE. Did she ask you about what you said or what was discussed with you?

The WITNESS. No, I didn't discuss that.
Mr. DEVINE. It may have been before, then?

The WITNESS. I didn't discuss my testimony with anybody. I think it was after I testified but I can't really be sure. The first call was after I testified; that is right.

Q. You testified on Monday, the 19th.
A. Yes.
Q. It was following that that she called you?
A. Yes.

Q. What else did she have to say besides arrangements for a babysitter?

A. That was really all the substance of the conversation. She said it was urgent that she get in touch with Adam and talk to him.

Q. Did you have any discussion with her concerning sending the telegram to the committee?

A. No; I didn't. I don't think I discussed that with her. I think I mentioned something—I asked her was she going to come. She said, “Yes; I'm going to come." She couldn't come then, she said, because of the arrangements, but she indicated she would come eventually.

Q. Let us devote our attention to the call on December 21. Did you call her or did she call you?

A. She called me.
Q. Where was she when she called you?
A. Again I assume it was from Puerto Rico.
Q. It

was a long-distance call?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Your testimony is that you received that call at your home?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it in the daytime or nighttime?
A. Daytime, in the afternoon about 2 o'clock.

Q. Will you tell the committee what she said and what you said to her in that conversation?

A. Well, again she said she wanted to talk to Mr. Powell, again about some personal matters. She was at her lawyer's office at the time she called. Her lawyer's name was Renaldo Panaigua. It seemed to be more important to her in the conversation that she get in touch with Mr. Powell. Again I asked what is it about-the hearing?

She said "No," this is about the household and some personal money problems she was having.

I said all I can do— "Well, I wrote to him after the first call for him to get in touch with you. I will do my best to get in touch with him.”

She said, “I'm having a hard time getting phone calls.”

She said, "Call me back at this number," which was the lawyer's number, and she gave me a number in San Juan. She apparently doesn't live in San Juan. I took the number, and I forwarded the number in the message to Mr. Powell in the mail.

Q. Did she indicate to you whether Mr. Powell had called her after she talked to you on the 19th?

A. She had not talked to him. She told me then she was coming up. I told her I felt she should come. I said, "If you don't come you will be in contempt of Congress."

Then she said about the baby and so forth.

I said, "I will tell you what I will do. I will meet you at the plane with heavy clothing for you and the child. You can stay at my place and my wife will take care of them. If you wish you can stay at my place, also. Whatever arrangements you want me to make I will be happy to help you in any way.”

Mr. DEVINE. This was on the 21st?
The WITNESS. Yes, sir.

Q. What did she say to that?

A. She said she would let me know. She said, "I will talk to you later on.”

I said, “Fine, call me any time. I will be glad to talk to you. Let me know when you are coming.'

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