Page images

A. I did.

Q. Would you examine all of them. Does your answer cover all of the checks that are contained in that exhibit? I see that you have separated them into, is it two groups? A. Yes.

Q. So that we won't burden the record, which is the smaller group? Is that the group that you endorsed?

A. No. This is the group that I did not endorse.

Q. So I take it that you signed Miss Flores' name and Mr. Powell's name on all of the others?

A. Yes.
Q. Now would you give the dates of the ones that you didn't sign?

A. A check dated December 20, 1965, November 30, 1965—as close as I can see, August 31, 1965.

Q. What was the first one again?
A. December 20.

Q. Do you recognize the handwriting on those three checks, on the endorsement ?

A. I am not an expert, as you know, but it appears to be Chairman Powell's handwriting.

Q. Now, with respect to the balance of the checks that you say you signed on the reverse side Mr. Hays. Could I see those three checks?

By Mr. TAYLER (continuing): Q. Would you tell us the circumstances under which you made the endorsements on those checks?

A. Yes. At the instructions of Chairman Powell who would send the check over to me, I would endorse them and deposit them to his account.

Q. Now, when did you receive for the first time such an instruotion from Chairman Powell?

A. I am sorry, I don't remember, it has been so long ago.

Q. Did you get the instruction prior to the 89th Congress? Does it go back before the 89th Congress convened? A. I believe so; yes.

Q. And was the instruction ever renewed or did you simply follow his orders?

A. He would send the check to me each month, or with the exception of the checks that you have, whenever I got a check this was my instructions. I got the envelope with the check in it, “Max, deposit" or "Deposit” and it was sent over to me and this is what I did.

Q. Did you ever have any conversation with him about why he was depositing Miss Flores' paychecks in his account?

A. Miss Flores was Mrs. Powell.
Q. Yes.
A. Mr. Powell was my boss.
Q. I am asking you if you had any conversations with him about it.
A. No, sir.
Mr. O'CONNOR. May I inject something here?

Q. I understood you to say you had a power of attorney from
Mr. Powell.

A. Yes, sir.

72-404 0467-7

Q. Did you have a power of attorney from Miss Flores?
A. No.
Q. Did you have a power of attorney from Miss Huff?
A. No.

Q. Your endorsements of those checks then were at Congressman Powell's direction?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Not through any official authority that you had?
A. No.

Q. Did you have anything in writing from Mr. Powell instructing you to endorse the checks? A. No.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. I believe you mentioned that you would get a little note with each check?

A. He would say deposit. Mr. O'Connor said endorse. But the note would say deposit and I would have to endorse it to deposit.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. You have a power of attorney on Mr. Powell's account at the Sergeant at Arms Bank?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Do you have a power of attorney on any of his other bank accounts ?

A. I have a power of attorney, period. I don't use them on any other bank account.

Q. Have you ever drawn any checks to Mrs. Flores from the Sergeant at Arms Bank?

A. I don't remember.
Q. Within the last 2 years you have no recollection?
A. I don't-no, I don't remember.

Q. You think you would have recalled if you ever exercised that power of attorney in favor of Miss Flores ?

A. You are saying I would recall if I had drawn a check on Mr. Powell's account to Miss Flores?

Q. Yes.

A. I write a lot of checks for Mr. Powell. I really do not remember whether I have written any to Miss Flores in the past 2 years,

Q. Could the committee assume from that answer that you have not?

A. I couldn't say; I would have to check the checkbook to find out.

Q. Would you mind going back and checking the checkbook and reporting back to the committee by memorandum as to whether you have?

A. Since January 3, 1965?
Q. 1965, yes.

A. May I report this to you, Mr. Tayler, at the same time that I report

Q. Could you give us a little memorandum on this so that we can include it in the record ?

A. Sure.

Q. Fine. We wouldn't want to be in the position of misquoting you. Mr. Hays. Any further questions?

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Have you ever had any conversations with Mr. Powell about whether or not Mrs. Flores was receiving any of the funds represented by those checks!

A. No.

Q. Have you had any conversations with Miss Flores about whether she was getting any of those funds?

A. No.
Q. When was the last time you saw Miss Flores ?
A. I saw her—she was here-

Mr. Hays. Let me ask a supplemental question. When she was up here in August

The WITNESS. August.
Mr. Hays (continuing). Complaining to the press, did you see her?
The WITNESS. Yes; I saw her. When she was here I saw her briefly.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Are you acquainted with Mr. Powell's clerk-hire staff in his congressional office ?

A. Yes; I am.

Q. Do you have frequent contact with the people over there from time to time?

A. No.
Q. Do you go to that office very often?

A. No. I am-I find myself so busy around the corner, I don't have the opportunity

Q. Do you know whether Miss Flores has been doing any work in that office during the 89th Congress?

A. No; I do not.
Q. If she was, you don't know about it; is that right?
A. No.
Q. Are you acquainted with a Malcolm La Place?
A. Yes.
Q. And what position did he hold on the committee staff?

A. He was a member of the staff of the Ad Hoc Subcommittee on the War on Poverty.

Q. Did he travel in connection with his duties?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever purchase airline tickets on your credit card for him?
A. I may well have been asked to.

Q. Let me direct your attention specifically to January of this year. The records show that Mr. La Place made a trip to the west coast, California, from January 12 to January 26. Do you recall him going there at that time?

A. No. I wouldn't know. The poverty people traveled very extensively and I wouldn't know who went where at what time.

Q. I take it then that you didn't have any contact with these people when they were out on their trips; they wouldn't call in and report to you?

A. No.

Q. What are the names of the reported travelers then?

A. On August 5 for $112.56, C. Sumner Stone. On August 5, $168.20, C. Sumner Stone.

Q. What is the actual traveler?
A. That is the name listed on this Eastern receipt.
Q. I know it is listed. I asked you—these are all purchases with
Stone's travel card ?

A. Yes.
Q. Who traveled on the $168.20 item?
A. I would have to go to look at the coupon

to see that a traveleraccording to my records Stone is the traveler, as well as the purchaser.

Q. Go to the third then.
A. The third one is Cleomine Lewis, $168.20.
Q. Cleomine Lewis?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Go ahead.

A. And the last one is Givens, and I am sorry I don't remember her first name.

Q. Does the name “Clark” appear among those ?
A. No.
Mr. DICKINSON. What was the last amount?
The WITNESS. A $168.20 ticket, of which $75.50 had been refunded.
Mr. DICKINSON. That was Sylvia Givens?
The WITNESS. Sylvia Givens, that is right.

Q. The refund was on the Givens
A. Yes.

Q. Let me see if I follow you correctly. The three tickets, one for $112.50, insofar as you know, the traveler was Stone?

A. Yes.

Q. The $168.20 ticket purchased on August 5, the traveler was Stone?

A. Yes.
Q. Would that be Mrs. Stone!
A. I don't know. I saw C. Sumner Stone on the-
Q. There are two Stones on the committee?
A. No.
Q. The $168.20 in the last item is Miss Lewis?
A. Yes. That is on this $541 check.

Q. You indicated that memorandum from Mr. Stone said the seven trips checked!

A. Yes.
Q. You have given us four trips.
Mr. TAYLER. There was another check I think she said.

Q. The memo from Stone said seven trips.

A. If I may explain that, some of the trips—three of them I gave you

Q. Maybe I shouldn't get into that. Are they covered by additional checks that you have there!

A. Some of them are covered by refunds.

Mr. O'CONNOR. You proceed, counsel, because I think you are going to cover that.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Would you now tell us what tickets are covered by the second check? That is Gray exhibit 1. The second check being also signed by Adam C. Powell, per L. M. Dargans, in the same amount as the first; is that right?

A. No, $112
Q. That is for $112?
A. And 56 cents.
Q. What tickets are covered by that check!

A. That covers a ticket purchased by Mr. Stone on August 5, Washington to Miami, and the name of the traveler appears as Emma Swann.

Q. What amount was that?
A. $112.56.
Q. That check is just for that one ticket?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is there any way you can tell when the travel was performed; the tickets having been purchased August 5 ?

A. No.
Q. Do you have the coupons from the tickets in your file?
A. Yes.

Q. You have to check the coupons in order to determine the actual date of the travel; is that right? A. Oh, no.

No. I wouldn't have the coupon from the ticket. I would only have the coupon from the purchase which the airline sends in when they send the statement in for payment.

Q. Does that form show when the travel was actually performed ? A. No; it just shows the date of the purchase of the travel.

Mr. Hays. This is my understanding around here from what I have seen.

It would be perfectly impossible for someone to purchase a ticket, lose it, never use it, and you'd pay for it and not know the difference, wouldn't it?

The WITNESS. Yes, sir..

Mr. Hays. Or any other members of the staff, because there is no certification from the airline that the ticket was ever used. Only that it was purchased.

The WITNESS. I am trying to think. What you said is most important.

Mr. Hays. I think what I said is right, from my experience with the Foreign Affairs Committee.

The WITNESS. And you are right, Mr. Hays, because we pay on the coupons when the tickets are purchased. We have no way of telling whether or when a ticket is used unless a voucher comes in, a per diem voucher comes in—no, even then we wouldn't.

Q. You pay on the transportation receipt?
A. Yes.
Q. That is what you mean by “coupon”?
A. Yes. Yes.
Q. Not one of the coupons that you tear off the ticket?

« PreviousContinue »