Mr. WAGGONER. One question which follows the last question of Mr. O'Connor. The 7-day period to which he has referred as your having been lost, would you for the record give us those days?

The WITNESS. I don't know what days.

Mr. WAGGONER. Would they be the 18th through the 25th?

The WITNESS. Well, I wasn't lost, so I can't respond to that, sir. Mr. O'CONNOR. I have no information on it other than it was indicated to us during the interview of certain of the witnesses, or certain of the members of the committee, that he was unavailable to write the report after they had returned to Washington because he was lost on the west coast.

Mr. LaPlace indicates he was on special assignment by the chairman during that period and that is the only information we have.

The WITNESS. The report was written, Mr. O'Connor, prior to my return but I submitted a personal report for this particular phase of the investigation. I can give you a list of names and telephone numbers and addresses of people to whom I talked and interviewed during that 7-day period if this will be of any help to you.

Mr. O'CONNOR. If the committee desires it, we can put it in the record.

Mr. WAGGONNER. I see no reason for it.

Mr. NEDZI. I see no reason for it.

Mr. O'CONNOR. I see no reason for it.

Thank you, Mr. LaPlace.

Mr. HAYS. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.). (Witness excused.)

Mr. O'CONNOR. Gentlemen, our next witness is Emma T. Swann.

MRS. EMMA T. SWANN, having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. Will you state your full name and address for the record, Mrs. Swann?

A. My name is Emma T. Swann, 4241 Nash Street NE.

Q. You are accompanied by counsel?

A. Yes.

Mr. ELLIS. For the record, Mr. Chairman, my name is Roy M. Ellis. I am an attorney, member of the bar of the District of Columbia and I represent Mrs. Swann. My office is 508 Fifth Street NW. Mr. HAYS. Mr. Ellis, we are pleased to have you here representing your client. The rules of the House restrict your activities as counsel for the witness to giving legal advice to her. This does not contemplate your addressing the committee on her behalf and most committees do not permit it. However, I will go beyond the rules and hear you only if you state legal objections on behalf of your client. Mr. ELLIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. HAYS. These objections must be proceeded with briefly and in an orderly fashion. We will not permit you to argue your objections after you have stated them.

Now, I ask you if you have consulted with your client and advised her of her rights, particularly her constitutional rights to claim the privilege of self-incrimination under the fifth amendment.

Mr. ELLIS. I have, Mr. Chairman, but may I ask a question for the purposes of information: If such an objectionable question should arise, may I be permitted to confer before the witness answers? Mr. HAYS. You may.

Mr. ELLIS. Thank you.

Mr. HAYS. Mrs. Swann, your appearance before this committee will be in executive session unless you request it be in public session. If your appearance is in executive session the public and press will not be admitted to the hearing room and pursuant to paragraph 26, House of Representatives rule XI, your testimony may not be released or used in a public session without the consent of this committee. Nor will you be permitted to purchase a copy of the transcript of your testimony unless authorized by this committee. If your appearance is in public session, the public and news reporters will be admitted, but television and news photographers will be excluded.

I now ask you whether you choose to appear before this committee in executive or public session?

The WITNESS. Executive.

Mr. HAYS. Let me state this, Mrs. Swann. It may take counsel by surprise. We have had a couple of witnesses in here this afternoon who were brought in because an audit seemed to indicate that they had done certain things. They proved to our satisfaction that they hadn't. We asked one of them and I intend to ask the others if they cared if we announced to the press that they were brought in here because the audit apparently showed they did certain things and we found they didn't and we wanted the public to know there was no wrongdoing on their part.

In other words, what I am trying to get across is that this committee is not out to indict anybody, to hurt anybody, or to harm anybody. There are certain discrepancies here which you will be asked about which, if you can explain, we would be delighted. We would rather have you explain them than to leave them unexplained. By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. When were you first employed by the Committee on Education and Labor?

A. April 1965.

Q. Are you still employed by the committee?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. What is your position with the committee?

A. I am a receptionist.

Q. Are you a receptionist in the committee offices or in Congressman Powell's office?

A. Congressman Powell's office.

Q. How long have you acted as receptionist in Congressman Powell's office?

A. Since I was first employed.

Q. All your tenure of office has been up in the Congressman's personal office?

A. Yes.

Q. Could you give us briefly your educational experience?

A. I finished high school.

Q. Are you married?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. What is your husband's name?

A. Carroll F. Swann.

Q. In connection with your position as receptionist for Mr. Powell, do the duties of that office require you to perform travel?

A. No, it doesn't.

Q. Have you in fact performed any official travel since you have been employed in Congressman Powell's office?

A. No, I haven't.

Q. None whatsoever?

A. None whatsoever.

Q. The reason we have you here today, Mrs. Swann-we indicated this to you in the letter which was directed to you that during the audit of the travel vouchers and the accounts of the Education and Labor Committee we have accounted for 16 trips between Washington and New York City, mostly on weekends, and 13 trips between Washington and Miami, Fla., of a duration from 1 to 10 days in which you are supposed to have made the travel.

We have also indicated that you made trips to Buffalo, N.Y.; Chicago; Knoxville, Tenn., during that period.

On these trips-which was strange to us-no claim for subsistence or taxi fares or airport transportation was made whatsoever. I take it from your testimony that you have made none of those trips? Mr. ELLIS. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. O'CONNOR. Do you have an objection?

Mr. ELLIS. Not an objection, but I think you will get to what you are doing if you permit the witness she said she made no trips in connection with staff business. I think it is a little different.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. You say you have made none of these trips in connection with your duties in Mr. Powell's office?

A. Yes.

Mr. ELLIS. Mr. O'Connor, first of all, have we established whether she made the trips?

Mr. O'CONNOR. I asked her whether or not she made the trips. The WITNESS. I thought you said for committee business.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. Did you make the trips on committee business?

A. I have made none on committee business.

Q. You have made no trips whatsoever?

A. On committee business, no.

Q. Now, being in the office there, were you aware that you name might have been used in connection with travel by others in the office? A. No, I was not.

Q. Have you ever traveled on an airplane with Representative Powell?

A. Yes, I have been on an airplane with the Congressman.
Q. When were you on an airplane with Congressman Powell?
A. Well, as for the exact date, I cannot say.

Q. What trips did you take with Mr. Powell?
A. Well, I have made three trips.

Q. With Mr. Powell?

A. No. I recall Mr. Powell being on one of the trips.

Q. How many trips have you made with Mr. Powell?
A.. One.

Q. Where did you go with Mr. Powell?

A. I was going to Miami.

Q. From Washington, D.C., to Miami?

Q. What other trips have you made where he was on the same plane?

A. Well, I don't recall making any others with him on the plane. Q. No others?

A. Not with him on the plane.

Q. Now, on that trip going to Miami, were you on official business? A. No, I was not.

Q. Had you purchased your own airline ticket?

A. No, I had not.

Q. How did you obtain your airline ticket?

A. It was given to me by Mr. Powell.

Q. The airline ticket was given to you by Mr. Powell?

A. Well, it came from him.

Q. What was the purpose of your going to Miami?

A. Well, I went to Miami, I shopped

Q. I beg your pardon?

A. I shopped and I was sightseeing.

Q. When was this trip taken?

A. As near as I can recall, I made one in January, I know.

Q. Of 19

A. 1966.

I made two others, but I don't recall their dates.

Q. Where were the two other trips to?

A. All three of my trips were to Miami.

Q. You went to Miami three times?

A. Yes.

Q. Did Mr. Powell give you the ticket each time?

A. No. In January I was alone and at no time was anybody with me. No.

Q. When were the other two trips made?

A. They were made in 1965 and the months I cannot-I mean the date I couldn't be specific. That is why I don't want to say. really don't recall the exact date when I went.

Q. Now, when you went to Miami, Mr. Powell was on the same plane you were on? In January 1966?

A. Not in January. I know in January I was alone. I traveled alone.

Q. Was anyone else traveling with Mr. Powell?

A. Well, I-no; not to my knowledge.

Q. Did you see any other staff members or employees of his office with him at that time?

A. There was Mr. Powell, and on one trip I saw Mr. Stone and Mr. Clark but I couldn't say they were with Mr. Powell. They were on the plane.

Q. On one of the trips you took, Mr. Stone and Mr. Clark were on the same plane?

A. Yes.

Q. You didn't see Mr. Powell on that trip?

A. I think Mr. Powell was on that trip.

Q. In other words, there was Mr. Powell, Mr. Stone, Mr. Clark, and yourself on the plane?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you traveling in the party with Mr. Powell, Mr. Stone, and Mr. Clark?

A. Well, I wouldn't say I was in the party with them. I was on the same plane, though.

Q. Well, were you on the same business that they were on, going to Miami?

A. I had no business. I was just going.

Mr. HAYS. Did you do any work while you were down there for anybody, like dictation or anything like that?

The WITNESS. No; I didn't.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. And for each of these trips you received you travel tickets from Mr. Powell or somebody else in the office?

A. Well, Mr. Powell didn't physically hand it to me.

Q. Who physically handed them to you?

A. Mr. Stone gave me the tickets.

Q. Could you tell the committee how these trips came about, what discussion you had with Mr. Powell or somebody else in the office, how you were going to take these trips, and how they were going to provide you with the tickets?

A. There was no discussion. Mr. Powell gave me the tickets.

Q. Well, there had to be some arrangement as to your being away from the office.

A. Well, at that time he did give me a vacation time.

Q. He gave you

A. I had his permission to be away from the office. Let's put it that way.

Q. He provided you with travel tickets?

A. The tickets; yes.

Q. Now, which time are we referring to there that you took this vacation? Which trip?