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A. And I would have stayed with my parents and would have been happy to have gone on that occasion. But it was a legitimate trip. I addressed the Florida A. & M. College, as a matter of fact, and I did look into the poverty program there with Edwin Norwood. He was the chief man there. I spent most of my time on my office duties. But that trip was made.

Q. Did you stay over a couple of days with your family?
Å. I think I stayed 2 days; yes.

Q. Well, that probably accounts for the reason no per diem was claimed, no subsistence.

A. Yes.

Mr. Hays. Mr. Anderson, you have apparently been a very cooperative witness and I think it is fair to point out to you that on at least one occasion we have developed so far that your name was used on a ticket without your knowledge. It was without your knowledge.

The WITNESS. Apparently it was.

Mr. Hays. Did you ever know that this practice was going on in that committee, buying tickets with somebody else's name on them?

The WITNESS. I didn't know this; no.
Mr. Hays. When was the first time you ever became aware of it?

The WITNESS. When-well, you heard it rumored about after this investigation opened, but these things—and that is when I began to think about them, think about instances in which they might have occurred, trying to piece together in my mind what sorts of procedures we might håve had which would allow this sort of thing to happen.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Was it done

were you aware of it while you were employed by the committee that this was being done?

A. I was not; no.

Q. Do you ever recall authorizing anyone to purchase airline tickets in your name, that you were not going to use?

A. No; I don't remember ever having done so.

Q. I notice that after you got back from your Tallahassee trip, almost immediately you went to New York, on April 25, returning to Washington on the 27th; you went up on a Sunday and Tuesday, no per diem was claimed on that. Could you recall that?

A. I don't remember it, but it would have escaped my notice not to have claimed per diem on a trip of that official nature.

Q. Well, could it have been that this was a continuation of your trip from Tallahassee?

A. No; it couldn't have; no.

Q. Six trips during this period without claiming subsistence, you have explained the one to Tallahassee but these six New York trips give us some concern.

A. Well, I don't understand them, really.
Q. You don't?
A. I really don't:

Q: Are those two vouchers marked? They haven't? There is the receipt on that one voucher that accompanied it and all it is is for the same amount. Would you look at the receipt.

A. Oh, yes.

Q. Does that refresh your recollection as to how the ticket was obtained?

A. Yes. Well, no, it doesn't. But this—this must have been paid for by me, but I won't say for sure, because this clears up a mystery, in any case, because this was my precise schedule.

Q. That was your precise schedule?
A. Yes.
Q. The bill is made to you. Do you see your name up there?
A. Yes. By whom would it have been made?

Mr. Hays. Well, there is a travel agency involved. Do you know that travel agency?

The WITNESS. Oh, yes, I do remember it now; yes.
Q. What do you recall about it?

A. Let me collect it in my mind, because I think I can piece this out.

Q. Maybe it would help you if we said that Congresswoman Mink and Congressman

A. Yes, this is exactly what happened.
Q. Purchased at the same place apparently.

A. Yes. I will tell you who made these purchases. Juanita-I have forgotten her last name-in Congressman Augustus Hawkins' office, made these purchases for the three of us; and it was under the special arrangements which we were under—I don't remember why we bought it this way. Perhaps it was because we were getting it for these other Congressmen. And I don't recall why we decided to do this, but I do remember it did happen, that we purchased the tickets through an agency. Now, I don't remember where the money came from.

Mr. NEDZI. It could have been charged?
The WITNESS. Pardon?
Mr. NEDZI. It could have been charged.

The WITNESS. But I do remember now. Juanita will tell you about this

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Do you recall writing the check for that amount of money among your personal funds?

A. I don't remember this.

Mr. Hays. Would it be possible—it may be common practice—that this was charged

The WITNESS. This one; no.

Mr. Hays. Could it have been possible that when you got the check for that amount, you endorsed it over to this travel agency?

The WITNESS. Well, I don't remember that.

Mr. Hays. Well, apparently Mrs. Mink and Mr. Hawkins were taken care of in exactly the same way.

The WITNESS. Yes, that is right.

Mr. Hays. Now, I imagine the travel agency got paid one way or another.

Mr. NEDZI. It might have been paid directly to them.

The WITNESS. But I will tell you who did all the arrangements for this. Since I was the staffman for these trips on the west coast,

I was told to–because we had a great deal to do with the Elementary and Secondary Education Act on the floor-to get Juanita in Congressman Augustus Hawkins' office to make these arrangements. She will remember this, because she is the one who selected this agency, you see.

And as to how it was paid for, I don't remember. She may, you see. Mr. O'CONNOR. Yes.

The W17 NESS. But if I had this sort of thing in my files I would have remembered it, but I didn't.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Well, is there any question in your mind about being reimbursed twice for this; in other words, somebody else paying for the ticket and you making claim for the $355?

A. I couldn't have been reimbursed twice, no.
Q. You weren't?
A. No.
Q. Well, that is the subject of the inquiry there.

A. Oh, I see. No, I wouldn't have been. And I would have remembered receiving that large an amount of money.

Mr. O'CONNOR. Yes. I have no further questions.
Mr. Hays. Mr. Waggonner? Mr. Dickinson?

Mr. DICKINSON. Well, on this one item-you think it is likely that through Congressman Hawkins' office that all three of these were charged and you told them that you would put in a voucher and when the check came to you, you just endorsed it to the airline travel agency and you would have no record of it?

The WITNESS. I don't remember the transaction, but I do remember this much: that she arranged everything. I may have signed it but I don't remember explicitly doing so. However, if I did, that agency will most likely have the check in their files.

Mr. DICKINSON. Let me suggest this: Mrs. Mink and Mr. Hawkins are both on your Education and Labor Committee?

The WITNESS. Yes, sir, they were. They are.

Mr. DICKINSON. Would you see if you can find out, go back through your records or

The WITNESS. I wouldn't have them in my records.
Mr. DICKINSON. You don't have anything on this?

The WITNESS. My records aren't that well kept. I never dreamed this thing would come about. But they will be well kept in the future.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q: If you were paid by personal check you would have your canceled check, would you not?

A. I would have my canceled check, yes.

Q. Would you check your canceled checks for that period. What is the date of the travel?

Mr. GRAY. March 26 through 31.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. And if you do have a canceled check, if you would let us know so we could get a Xeroxed copy of it put in the record to clear this item.

A. All right.

Mr. Hays. Could it be possible, would this refresh your memory any, Mr. Anderson: Could it have been possible that this voucher was made out and the checks were collected by the committee and they

asked you to come in and endorse it and then they sent it down to the agency?

The WITNESS. I don't remember doing this, no. But I do remember this much: That after doing things this way, it was a very awkward transaction. We just decided not to do it that way again, and from then on I had charge of travel arrangements for much of the charges in the sense that I designated the cities for the poverty investigations and also discussed with the chief clerk the types of arrangements. That was to October 18, 1965. Then we didn't we decided never to do it that way again. I remembered that instance because that was the wrong way to do it.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. All of your other travel was obtained apparently through credit cards of the committee?

A. Of the chief clerk, that is right.
Q. And this is an unusual transaction?
A. It was an unusual transaction.
Q: That is the reason we are inquiring into it.

Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Chairman, may these be admitted as exhibits into the record? (See Anderson Éxhibit 2).

Mr. Hays. Without objection. Did you have a question? Mr. WAGGONNER. Yes. Earlier you made reference, Mr. Anderson, to a statement by Mr. O'Connor, counsel for this committee, that his statement clarified a mystery. What did you have reference to? The Witness. Well

, the primary mystery was the 14 trips. This is all I meani. Fourteen trips without claiming subsistence, I am told now, some of which were made without claiming subsistence. And also this was a mystery, too, this particular voucher in which I was paid $355, apparently signed for. But now it is clear to, that once I saw the GO agency voucher, I realized what had happened. I remembered how that transaction may have-Juanita-I forgot her last name-made the purchases of this.

I don't know how, but she made the purchases for Congresswoman Mink, Congressman Hawkins, and myself.

Mr. WAGGONNER. Is this, then, the awkwardness and methods to which you have alluded?

The Witness. No. I meant that to go through an agency-I remember it was just a troublesome-the whole thing was troublesome. There was--I mean this particular, the whole trip was troublesome arranging, because we had to delay it several times. That meant that we had to call the agency. And it was because the Elementary and Secondary Education Act was on the floor; we had to call the agency, the agency was angry because it had to change the reservations for the hotels, change the tickets again and again. And so we just decided that that was the wrong way to do it.

Mr. WAGGONNER. I have no further questions.
Mr. Hays. Mr. Devine?
Mr. DEVINE. No questions.
Mr. Jones. No questions.
Mr. Hays. Thank you very much, Mr. Anderson.

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Mr. O'CONNOR. You will furnish that canceled check if you find it

The WITNESS. I will look through my records and I will tell you i
I can find it.

Mr. Hays. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Hays. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Hays. Is there any other business before we adjourn for lunch?

Mr. DICK) NSON. Before we adjourn, what do you have planned for this afternoon?

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