The WITNESS. I don't have it with me; I just have my dog-eared copy, but if you want that Mr. DICKINSON. Well, I will leave that to counsel. I would think we would want it if that is pertinent to this particular line of inquiry. The WITNESS. All right. Mr. DICKINSON. You mentioned the fact that there were four tickets purchased October 28, one of which a refund-well, there were actually seven tickets you had personal checks for. There were four purchased by Chuck Stone on October 28, and a personal check was made to refund this amount in the amount of $541.66; is that correct? The WITNESS. The reimbursement was made on October 28. Mr. DICKINSON. All right, reimbursement. The WITNESS. But the purchases were in August. Mr. DICKINSON. August. August 5? The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. All right. Do you know anything about the refund on the Givens ticket? The WITNESS. No. The only thing that I know is that the refund coupon showed up with the statement. Mr. DICKINSON. Well, as a matter of fact, weren't the charges of $168.20, the expense of a ticket from Washington to Miami to New York to Washington, and since she came directly back to Washington that would be the refund, that she didn't go to New York? The WITNESS. I don't know, sir. You see, it is just Mr. DICKINSON. All right. Mr. HAYS. Actually, to keep the record straight, as I understand, the ticket was from Washington to New York to Miami to New York to Washington, and she went Washington to New York to Miami to Washington. Mr. O'CONNOR. Mrs. Dargans said Mr. HAYS. But the refund was a check written, not an airline refund. Now am I right? There was an airline refund? The WITNESS. That is right. Mr. HAYS. And in what amount? The WITNESS. $75.50. Mr. DICKINSON. And this went to whom? Just credit against the account? The WITNESS. Credit against the committee's account. Mr. DICKINSON. I see. Now, you have said that you did not know who used these tickets, is that correct? The WITNESS. That is right. Mr. DICKINSON. The ones we were just talking about right here? The WITNESS. That is right. Mr. DICKINSON. Each one was purchased by Chuck Stone? The WITNESS. Yes. Mr. DICKINSON. And charged against his credit card? The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. You have no knowledge of who actually used them? The WITNESS. No, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. You don't know for what purpose the trip was made? The WITNESS. No, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. And by it being paid for later by the chairman, you assume and the records will reflect that it was not official business, is that correct? The WITNESS. Apparently not, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. It was charged against the committee and then later The WITNESS. The committee was reimbursed. Mr. DICKINSON (continuing). The committee was reimbursed? The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. Now, I notice on the notation you got from Mr. Stone relaying the message from the chairman to you to pay these seven items, it directed you to pay them directly to the airline and the word "directly" is underscored. Does that have any significance? The WITNESS. I don't know. I would make the check out to the airline anyway because the airline rendered the statement. So that to me it would have no significance because this would be my method of operation in any event. Mr. DICKINSON. I see. Who is Emma Swann, please? The WITNESS. She is a member of the committee staff. Mr. DICKINSON. All right. On this $112.56 ticket on August 5, her name is on there as one that was to be reimbursed by the chairman personally; is this correct? The WITNESS. One that was-that was reimbursed by the chairman, yes, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. Yes. But she was a member of the staff? The WITNESS. Yes, she is a member of the staff. Mr. DICKINSON. She is now. So may we assume from that that someone other than Emma Stone-Emma Swann made this trip or that if she made it, it was private business? The WITNESS. I don't know. Mr. DICKINSON. You have no way of knowing. And at the same time there were two other trips, both of which were later reimbursed, one by the chairman, Mr. Powell, and one by Corrine Huff, both of which were from Washington to Oklahoma City and return, is that right? The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. And Mr. Powell reimbursed for his ticket separately and Corrine Huff reimbursed for her ticket separately? The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. Was she on the committee at this time? Was she an employee of the committee? The WITNESS. What is the date now? Mr. DICKINSON. Now we are talking about July. As a matter of fact, on June 1 she went to work for Mr. Powell on his personal payroll, didn't she? The WITNESS. Yes. Mr. DICKINSON. She went to work for the committee something like June 1, 1961; would that be approximatley right? The WITNESS. Approximately. Mr. DICKINSON. Well, I think it is right. The WITNESS. In the summer of 1961. The WITNESS. The summer of 1961. Mr. DICKINSON. Yes, yes, June 1, she stayed on the committee payroll until June 1, 1966, at which time she was transferred over to Mr. Powell's personal payroll. Mr. DEVINE. Congressional or personal? Mr. DICKINSON. Congressional or personal, in his office? The WITNESS. That was just about the date. Mr. DICKINSON. So any trip she made after that could not have legally been paid for by the committee, is that correct? The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. Now, when did Mrs. Mr. HAYS. Just a minute, right there. I think we ought to have the record clear on this, because I don't want anything that is going to stand here that is going to reflect on us or any other committee. Is it, to your knowledge, a practice around here that occasionally a chairman will send a member of his staff on committee business somewhere and pay for it out of committee funds? Do you have any knowledge of that ever happening? The WITNESS. No, sir. Mr. HAYS. All right. That is all. Mr. DICKINSON. Now, as to Miss Flores, how long has-on which payroll is she now? She is on the committee payroll? The WITNESS. Congressional. Mr. DICKINSON. She is on Mr. Powell's personal congressional payroll? The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. Has she ever been on the committee payroll? The WITNESS. No, not that I can think of Mr. DICKINSON. She has been on his personal payroll all the time. For how long has she been on his payroll? Do you keep those books, too, his staff payroll? The WITNESS. Yes, I do. Mr. DICKINSON. How long has she been so employed? The WITNESS. Since before he became chairman. Is that good enough? Mr. DICKINSON. Well, it gives us some idea. Now she does no work for the committee whatever; is that right? The WITNESS. Not that I know of. Mr. DICKINSON. Well, she is not on the committee payroll and has no connection with the committee as far as you know; is that correct? The WITNESS. That is right. Mr. DICKINSON. Mr. Powell's staff and office actually is not much— there is no difference here on the Hill, is there? You work in Mr. Powell's personal office even though you are committee staff? Where are you physically located? The WITNESS. I am physically located in the committee area. Mr. DICKINSON. I am trying-well The WITNESS. I do not work in his congressional office. Mr. DICKINSON. Well, let me tell you what I am trying to find out so that you can help me. Is it possible that someone could work in his office or on the staff and be physically present and you not know about it? The WITNESS. Oh, yes, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. Do you think it is likely that this will be the case? The WITNESS. Oh, yes; it is quite possible. Mr. DICKINSON. Do you know whether or not Miss Flores has performed any services of any nature whatever in Washington, D.C., in the past 2 years? The WITNESS. I would not know, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. You don't have any idea. Now, how long have you been endorsing checks and depositing them for Mr. Powell? Has this gone over a number of years? The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. Has the disbursing officer ever questioned your endorsing his employee's check, Miss Flores; did you ever have any conversation or communication with the disbursing officer or the Sergeant at Arms about your depositing these checks or Mr. Powell depositing these checks of his wife? The WITNESS. No, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. Ás far as you know they have never questioned it, the matter has never even been discussed? The WITNESS. No. You see, my position was this: This was Mr. Powell's check which Mr. Powell gave to me to deposit in his account, which I did. He would have a direct check on it because he received his statement at the end of every month and it was so indicated that that is where the check had gone, as he had instructed. Mr. DICKINSON. I understand. You were following his instructions. I just want to know if the disbursing officer or the Sergeant at Arms had ever questioned this practice to you or to Mr. Powell, as far as you know. The WITNESS. Not to me. Mr. DICKINSON. And so far as you know, have they ever questioned it to Mr. Powell? The WITNESS. He wouldn't necessarily tell me, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. I asked you so far as you know. The WITNESS. Not as far as I know. Mr. DICKINSON. Did Miss Flores sign her own employment form or did someone do that for her? Did you do that for her? The WITNESS. I believe she signed her own form. Mr. DICKINSON. It has to be notarized, as I recall? The WITNESS. She would have to. Mr. DICKINSON. I know she is supposed to. A lot of things were supposed to have been done that weren't done. You don't know whether or not she did, you have no independent recollection of that? The WITNESS. No. Mr. DICKINSON. I have no further questions. Mr. HAYS. Well, you just know that you didn't sign it? The WITNESS. I wanted to say that. I know I didn't sign it. Mr. HAYS. Mr. Devine. Mr. DEVINE. I have just one question again relating to Mrs. Powell or Miss Flores. Do you know whether she had access to or authority to draw on Mr. Powell's account with the Sergeant at Arms? The WITNESS. No, I don't. Mr. DEVINE. You do have power of attorney to write checks on that account? The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DEVINE. Do you know whether anyone else does? The WITNESS. No, I don't. Mr. DEVINE. Do you maintain a running balance in that account for Mr. Powell? The WITNESS. No, sir. Mr. DEVINE. I thought maybe since you had power of attorney you kept the checks for him. The WITNESS. No. By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Who balances the checkbook at the end of the month A. I believe-I don't know. Q. You don't? A. I don't know. Q. The canceled checks don't come back to you? A. No. Mr. DEVINE. That is my question, whether she had access to the account. You don't know? The WITNESS. No. Mr. DEVINE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. NEDZI. Just one question. I wonder if we can get Mrs. Dargans to recall, if she can, some particulars on the refund that occurred in September of 1965. Do you recall The WITNESS. A refund? Mr. NEDZI. Yes. For travel in the amount of $288 and some cents. Mr. O'CONNOR. You made reference to the tickets, New York City to Miami and Washington to Chicago? Mr. NEDZI. No, there was one additional one besides that apparently, according to these records, Mr. Chairman. The WITNESS. If I could see it, I could Mr. NEDZI. Apparently it is a Washington-to-Los Angeles trip involving a Grace C. Howell. Mr. HAYS. Was the ticket used or was the ticket turned in for a refund? Mr. NEDZI. I think the ticket was used. There is a stub on it. Mr. TAYLER. The witness stated that Congressman Powell paid for that ticket via check in the sum of $267.95, I believe. Mr. NEDZI. To Los Angeles? I thought that was The WITNESS. As I recall this voucher, this was travel performed by our then Education Chief, Dr. Grace Howell, and the organization which invited her reimbursed the transportation, and that was the check that was attached to this voucher. Mr. NEDZI. Thank you. Mr. HAYS. I have one or two questions, Mr. Dargans. About this Miami trip, it would appear to me that it was part business and part vacation; is that right? The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. HAYS. This is not an unusual thing around here. I happen to know that. Now, did you feel, since you only spent 1 day on this business that you just wouldn't ask for per diem because you were |